pro's and con's

[noodle]

Originally posted by West Coast Stre
Adelaide absolutely flogged Collingwood in the ruck last weekend. Collingwood still won the centre breaks. I think we should give Lynch/MacDougall a recall and leave Gardiner to do the centre ruckwork while Jako or Milli carries the ruck in the back line and Lynch/MacDougall when it goes forward. We can't afford to bring in 2 talls as that would throw out our team balance. Where we will win it is in the midfield or rebounding from half back.

I think we need a second ruckman. part of the reason gardiner has been so successful is that he is also playing as a mobile target but as mead said he is coming off the flu so he won't have the stamina. Seaby or Johnson may find themselves in the mix. Likewise McD who could go into the centre against Collingwood.

Adelaide killed them in the ruck last week but the Pies were able to react to the Crows knocks. bloody hard work but bloody well played.

 

[Streaker]

Originally posted by noodle
Adelaide killed them in the ruck last week but the Pies were able to react to the Crows knocks. bloody hard work but bloody well played.

Interesting article in the heraldsun

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,6430748%5E19742,00.html

Maybe we could rest Gardiner and give a youngster a hitout. If Collingwood follow those tactics again it is the midfield that we need to dominate rather than hitouts.

I must admit it is terrific to watch when Gardiner rams in down the throat of our midfielders.

 

[Mead]

Originally posted by West Coast Stre
Interesting article in the heraldsun

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,6430748%5E19742,00.html

Maybe we could rest Gardiner and give a youngster a hitout. If Collingwood follow those tactics again it is the midfield that we need to dominate rather than hitouts.

I must admit it is terrific to watch when Gardiner rams in down the throat of our midfielders.

Indeed it is an interesting article, but if u ask me, it reads like a convoluted excuse for why stunning steve is getting a game as a ruckman despite his complete inability to win a ruck contest. The fact is, he's a hack, or to put it politely, an 'honest battler'. The rest of the league is aware of that, pie fans in the know are aware of that, even steve mckee himself knows the only reason he is first ruck for collingwood is because they don't have anything resembling a decent ruckmen- disagree? If Dean Cox was offered as trade bait to the Pies, how long do you think they'd take before saying yes?

As for resting Gardiner. Um, no. All that article suggests is, as a team who never get good ball usage from their ruckman, Collingwood's midfield has to play defensively at stoppage and win the contested ball gets. The fact that they can win games with that strategy is a tribute to how good Buckley, Licuria and co are, but its hardly an advantage to trumpet about.
So far this year, Gardiner's ruckwork has been unbelievable, not just because of the quantity of his knocks, but more importantly because of the quality- he's not just getting first hand to the ball, he's putting it straight into our midfielders' hands fairly regularly- if you look at the game vs St Kilda, or the Derby, our midfielders weren't even having to go for the hard ball gets- they were just pointing themselves in the direction of our forward line, running past the ruck contest, and getting the ball put on their chests every time- McKee is about on par with Capuano in terms of rucking ability- if Gardiner comes to play and our midfield do their jobs, we should slaughter the Pies out of the centre.

 

[Streaker]

I agree that he is a hack but you can't deny that Malthouse has used his lack of skill to good effect. To be rated second only to Luke Darcy of all the ruckmen in the league for clearances from stoppages this year, is pretty damn good.

 

[Mead]

Originally posted by West Coast Stre
I agree that he is a hack but you can't deny that Malthouse has used his lack of skill to good effect. To be rated second only to Luke Darcy of all the ruckmen in the league for clearances from stoppages this year, is pretty damn good.

What exactly does that stat mean, though? That his team is second in the league for clearances when he is rucking, (very hard to swallow)
or that, of all ruckmen, he is second in the league in clearances- ie, incidents where he takes the ball out of the ruck or off the ground, and kicks/handballs it forward himself.

If its the latter, I'm inclined to utter a big fat 'so ****ing what.' Given that he doesn't contest the hit outs, it goes without saying that he'll be more likely to kick it out or handball it than a ruckman who is getting the hit out- you can't be in two places at once. If his strategy is to hang back and hope the ball falls to him, well, um, yes, that is an interesting way of rucking.
As for that making him a good player, its like citing the number of goals a defender kicks, or the number of spoils a full forward makes as evidence of how good a player they are.

Actually, anyone have a stat of where Collingwood rank in centre clearances?