Racist Cartoon in the Australian

[funkyfreo]

As for Funky Freo saying there is no evidence for it being more prevalent amongst aborigines, see below.
.

That is what I said:

"I just don;t think that "aboriginals bash their wives" is a valid stereotype, as it is a minority occurence. There is no evidence that it is more likely than not (although certianly is evidence it is more frequent (possibly) than in general society)."

So essentialy we agree, but you are so stereotypical in your views of me you choose to assume I disagree.

 

[crocodileman]

That is what I said:

"I just don;t think that "aboriginals bash their wives" is a valid stereotype, as it is a minority occurence. There is no evidence that it is more likely than not (although certianly is evidence it is more frequent (possibly) than in general society)."

So essentialy we agree, but you are so stereotypical in your views of me you choose to assume I disagree.

Hey Funky, welcome back. I kept the bastards honest during your absence. Thanks for the PM's.

In answer to your questions from that PM:-

1. Yes, Feher and Unit, but others as well.
2. Ignore button - Perth Crow.
3. Next Wednesday at 8pm AEST.
4. Aplleyard told me via e-mail. He's a funny bugger!

 

[feher]

The cartoon'ish name is Bill Leak, you can do your own search through google, av whatever, and you can make your own minds up, how he meant the cartoon.

A couple of links:

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,4084102%255E26778,00.html
http://www.home.aone.net.au/byzantium/preambles/bl.html
http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2004/s1065594.htm

I read a couple of them, but I don't get it totally.

One of the poster's said it well, he has done a good job with it, by making it being discussed.

 

[dan warna]

Port Supporter?

Its funny that stereotype, and I participate in that type of language too, but the port supporters I know are probably far from it.

in fact the closest I've met to that stereotype tends to be collingwood and north supporters.

I do take the micky out of one port supporter with comments like "they have a statue of you in port, the first person in 120 years to have a job", and "good thing you earn so much, what supporting 20,000 dependents" etc, but its all in good fun, and he doesn't spare the jibes when directing comments about my poor old saints, or Victorians (which I countered COB cricket season 2003/4)

the fact is that cartoon stereotypes indiginous australians, but similar comments and cartoons have been made about dandenong, frankston etc (anyone saw the dandenong city submission for the 2012 olympics which was doing the rounds, pretty much the same as the Redfern submission (email) going around in the late 90s, or the jokes about frankston, ie boxing to be contended between husband and wife teams, etc.

Its not nice, but unfortunately people thrive on such comedy.

 

[funkyfreo]

I always thought it was us loony left who got all uppity and antsy about racism. What this thread shows is that the right leaners are far more concerned - they think pictures of anyone of any colour are racist. I guess they want ALL political cartoons to be banned, as how can they not be racist if they have characters in them?

I never realised you guys were so damn sensitive.

Plus PC:
"If the cartoon was in an aboriginal magazine and it portrayed 2 white people would it be racist? Thats the point feher is making and everyone missed it."

1) no - because there is no racial stereotype of whites being wife bashers per se (although there should be) - that picture would just be discussing domestic violence in the general community, and not in just white society - because that is the symbolism emplyed by cartoonists - white = average joe no race implied.

2) Heck apparently it would be racist if it was two BLACKS in a black magazine - go figure. You can't win. My view - a race is allowed to stereotype its own race WITHOUT being racist, because the author is automatically including him/herself. Any right leaning type who disagrees is pretty much doing it to make a point, but I guarentee they would not be screaming RACIST if a white person mate a negative portrayal of WHITE society.

3) That was not the point Feher was making - he has not mentioned that as being a scenario in a black-readership magazine.

 

[funkyfreo]

the fact is that cartoon stereotypes indiginous australians, but similar comments and cartoons have been made about dandenong, frankston etc (anyone saw the dandenong city submission for the 2012 olympics which was doing the rounds, pretty much the same as the Redfern submission (email) going around in the late 90s, or the jokes about frankston, ie boxing to be contended between husband and wife teams, etc.

Its not nice, but unfortunately people thrive on such comedy.

I'm from Liverpool, and the Scouse Olympics has been doing the rounds for years. But you would have to be pretty thin skinned to take offence at a joke about your culture that is created and distributed BY YOUR OWN CULTURE.

Racism really has to be about a DIFFERENT race to be a problem, because the humour or poignant point always misses the mark and is drowned out by debates such as this.

 

[funkyfreo]

I'll tell you one thing - the right on here thing Crocoman is a dirty lowlife scum - but he is no less subtle than that cartoon. Crocoman speaks truth - Farming really does have massive environmental impact and farmers really need to get their act together before they ******** the whole place up. But his delivery is poor and people get defensive and nasty, so he changes no opinions and everyone just argues.

Well to us on the left, well this sort of in your face cartoon that goes way over the top is so offensive it is simply not a starting point for constructive discussion, and it turns into a bunfight, when actually if you read between the lines BOTH sides KNOW there is a problem that needs sorting out.

 

[feher]

funkyfreo can I say that you have done a great job so far, this is the difference between you and that other poster, not having to resort to abuse. I know I won't change your view, like you won't mine, the main thing is at least you keep things civil.

I always thought it was us loony left who got all uppity and antsy about racism. What this thread shows is that the right leaners are far more concerned - they think pictures of anyone of any colour are racist. I guess they want ALL political cartoons to be banned, as how can they not be racist if they have characters in them?

I think some off this is aimed at me, I have no problem with this cartoon I only have a problem in calling it racist because it shows two black characters. I don't want cartoon's banned, I am trying to argue that the person's skin color in the cartoon should not make it racist.

Plus PC:
"If the cartoon was in an aboriginal magazine and it portrayed 2 white people would it be racist? Thats the point feher is making and everyone missed it."

1) no - because there is no racial stereotype of whites being wife bashers per se (although there should be) - that picture would just be discussing domestic violence in the general community, and not in just white society - because that is the symbolism emplyed by cartoonists - white = average joe no race implied.

If an aboriginal saw that picture with 2 whites, how would you think they would interpute it?

2) Heck apparently it would be racist if it was two BLACKS in a black magazine - go figure. You can't win. My view - a race is allowed to stereotype its own race WITHOUT being racist, because the author is automatically including him/herself. Any right leaning type who disagrees is pretty much doing it to make a point, but I guarentee they would not be screaming RACIST if a white person mate a negative portrayal of WHITE society.

3) That was not the point Feher was making - he has not mentioned that as being a scenario in a black-readership magazine.

I am lost on this one, so I will stay out of it. If you would like to ask me that question funkyfreo in a different way I will give my opinion on it.

 

[funkyfreo]

funkyfreo can I say that you have done a great job so far, this is the difference between you and that other poster, not having to resort to abuse. I know I won't change your view, like you won't mine, the main thing is at least you keep things civil.

To be honest feher, and maybe this is not the spot for big-noting ourselves, but credit to you to. I think we are practically of the same opinion, but I come from the leftish and you from the rightish, and everyone gets viewed as totally extreme.

I think some off this is aimed at me, I have no problem with this cartoon I only have a problem in calling it racist because it shows two black characters. I don't want cartoon's banned, I am trying to argue that the person's skin color in the cartoon should not make it racist.

Actually was more aimed at some other posters who get all antsy.

If an aboriginal saw that picture with 2 whites, how would you think they would interpute it?.

I'd be surprised if they thought it was condeming whites exclusively for being wife beaters.

I am lost on this one, so I will stay out of it. If you would like to ask me that question funkyfreo in a different way I will give my opinion on it.

It was really aimed at Perth Crow in his post on the other thread - sorry. But I felt you were being misrepresented just to back up his/her more extreme views.

 

[feher]

To be honest feher, and maybe this is not the spot for big-noting ourselves, but credit to you to. I think we are practically of the same opinion, but I come from the leftish and you from the rightish, and everyone gets viewed as totally extreme.

rightish as in:

those who support political or social or economic conservatism; those who believe that things are better left unchanged

I do believe in change, just as long as it doesn't have to do with skin color. I presume this means I don't want change in aboriginal lifes, okay somewhat true, and this is where I come off wrong, what I would prefer is them being called Australian's and their life changes being made based on money, etc rather then skin color. I don't see the difference between a non-aboriginal living in povety then an aboriginal, they should both be treated equally, neither given more, and this is why I don't like things like Abstudy, as it clearly is based on the color of your skin.

I read the left wing thing:

those who support varying degrees of social or political or economic change designed to promote the public welfare

I don't know how I am suppose to interrupt this, I don't have a problem in a poor family given more money, just as long as it is not based on skin color.

 

[funkyfreo]

I don't know how I am suppose to interrupt this, I don't have a problem in a poor family given more money, just as long as it is not based on skin color.

Just one thing, and sorry to be picky but you got me with this yesterday and I got very confused - the word is INTERPRET not INTERRUPT. Interrupt is what you do when you talk before someone else has finished talking

But anyway yep I'm with you there. Trouble is we always have a centrist majority, but they are split between two parties so each has to get dragged away by the extreme elements, who start to dominate! You and I SHOULD be supporting the same centrist party!

 

[crocodileman]

I'll tell you one thing - the right on here thing Crocoman is a dirty lowlife scum - but he is no less subtle than that cartoon. Crocoman speaks truth - Farming really does have massive environmental impact and farmers really need to get their act together before they ******** the whole place up. But his delivery is poor and people get defensive and nasty, so he changes no opinions and everyone just argues.

Well to us on the left, well this sort of in your face cartoon that goes way over the top is so offensive it is simply not a starting point for constructive discussion, and it turns into a bunfight, when actually if you read between the lines BOTH sides KNOW there is a problem that needs sorting out.

Funky, if the right think I'm a dirty lowlife scum, then I am doing my job well. In any event, you're never really going to change their opinions because they have no capacity to change, so the only option left is to attack!

Funky, don't make me lose respect for you by sucking up to Feher in your posts - this man is the epitome of stupidity and a symbol of a divided Australia. Give him nothing - you referred to him in an earlier PM as an oxygen thief - stand by it!

 

[funkyfreo]

Funky, if the right think I'm a dirty lowlife scum, then I am doing my job well. In any event, you're never really going to change their opinions because they have no capacity to change, so the only option left is to attack!

Funky, don't make me lose respect for you by sucking up to Feher in your posts - this man is the epitome of stupidity and a symbol of a divided Australia. Give him nothing - you referred to him in an earlier PM as an oxygen thief - stand by it!

I have to ask how you guys don't see Crocoman as at least pretty funny!! That is a classic post!

Crocoman, even Bush and Chirac shake hands and smile for the cameras on occasions

 

[otaku]

I have to ask how you guys don't see Crocoman as at least pretty funny!! That is a classic post!

Crocoman, even Bush and Chirac shake hands and smile for the cameras on occasions

Must be typical pommy humour - dank and lowbrow.

 

[crocodileman]

I have to ask how you guys don't see Crocoman as at least pretty funny!! That is a classic post!

Crocoman, even Bush and Chirac shake hands and smile for the cameras on occasions

The Rabid Right on here are like Witches, if you take their photo, it appears as if they are not in the image. You see, Funky, they have no soul! If there is a God, they will rot in hell as we dine with Virgins!

 

[funkyfreo]

Must be typical pommy humour - dank and lowbrow.

no comment!

 

[feher]

Funky, don't make me lose respect for you by sucking up to Feher in your posts - this man is the epitome of stupidity and a symbol of a divided Australia. Give him nothing - you referred to him in an earlier PM as an oxygen thief - stand by it!

I got that Pm from you croc, funkey care to explain?

croc I would challenge you on showing me my stupidity (besides spelling and grammar), but whats the point, you never do, I have challenged you to show my racist comments, we all know what you did with that.

 

[funkyfreo]

I got that Pm from you croc, funkey care to explain?

croc I would challenge you on showing me my stupidity (besides spelling and grammar), but whats the point, you never do, I have challenged you to show my racist comments, we all know what you did with that.

If you are suggesting that I am Crocoman - Puhlease???

 

[feher]

If you are suggesting that I am Crocoman - Puhlease???

come on ff:

you referred to him in an earlier PM as an oxygen thief - stand by it!

did you make that comment?

If you made the comments no problem, at the moment I have no reason to dislike you as a poster.

 

[otaku]

no comment!

 

[- PC -]

I got that Pm from you croc, funkey care to explain?

croc I would challenge you on showing me my stupidity (besides spelling and grammar), but whats the point, you never do, I have challenged you to show my racist comments, we all know what you did with that.

feher let it go...he is baiting you....he has proven his ignorance of the whole issue we were talking about , he has also proven that when asked for facts he reverts to pointing out typos and derailing the question. Political manouvering its called...outflank your opponent by diverting the topic without having to answer or use facts to back up a question. I made numerous statements and croc decided to ignore my truths and attack your spelling thereby bypassing the question.

Its funny Funky called me extreme and maybe I am..but if you read all my posts in this thread you would see I have found the cartoon to be as offensive as anyone.


As everyone is pinching from other threads I will state a position again... If a person uses an economic argument against aborigines he is seen as racist. Yet if someone talks about the ''ferals from Port Adelaide'' its humourous yet the unemployment situation is horrific in the western suburbs of Adelaide

 

[funkyfreo]

come on ff:

did you make that comment?

If you made the comments no problem, at the moment I have no reason to dislike you as a poster.

No, I never made that comment. As you point out Croco has said that to you before in a PM, he is just winding you up to make you think us lefties have massive PM-fests in which we carry out all the rabid discussion that we "centralise" for public debate. Croco regularly quotes falsified PMs - but I think it is harmess and humerous.

 

[feher]

Ok i'll let it go, you put him on ignore didn't you PerthCrow? I think the time has come for me to do the same.

 

[feher]

No, I never made that comment. As you point out Croco has said that to you before in a PM, he is just winding you up to make you think us lefties have massive PM-fests in which we carry out all the rabid discussion that we "centralise" for public debate. Croco regularly quotes falsified PMs - but I think it is harmess and humerous.

ok, I know he is full of lies, just wanted to hear it from you.

 

[funkyfreo]

Its funny Funky called me extreme and maybe I am..but if you read all my posts in this thread you would see I have found the cartoon to be as offensive as anyone.

Must by my Crows fan stereotype! No offence intended.

As everyone is pinching from other threads I will state a position again... If a person uses an economic argument against aborigines he is seen as racist. Yet if someone talks about the ''ferals from Port Adelaide'' its humourous yet the unemployment situation is horrific in the western suburbs of Adelaide

Now I disagree about the economic argument. People who make unjustified economic arguments, well yes even level headed I think "bloody redneck". Making fun of ferals in Port A, or wherever the bogans live in your city, is not racist, as it is a comment about a group regardless of race. Yes it may be sometimes over the top and rude, but not racist. As I say I've a scouser and have been the but of such jokes forever. Irish jokes are also not racist, although I have heard Irish eople who say they are.

That is just life as it is PerthCrow, I'm afraid.