Raines a Midfielder

[RichotheGreat]

people have posted that they want him out of the backline, but where do you suggest he goes?
its either midfield or forward. forward to me just wouldnt suit him so i want him in the midfield. he is a fair size and he is a decent long kick (although some posters dont think so) so put him in the midfield terry !

what do you think?

 

[RichosGuns]

Like Jackson, he lacks awareness. He isn't a great kick either so he would never make it as an outside mid. Maybe a grab and hack player but we already have a player in Tuck who can do this and do this very well. I still have hopes for Raines coming the strong small defender we've been crying out for

 

[sante]

Wingman. We were using him as a tagger at the beginning of 2008, but injuries forced him out of the side. Jackson will be our main tagger in 2009 one would think.

Put him on the wing, he has a long kick and if its entering the F50, it as well as McMahon's long kicking can beat the clusters Hawthorn have created and no doubt other teams will try and emulate. Raines bleeds yellow and black and always give 100%.

 

[coke_zero]

im not sure he would be able to get back in the team. hopfully he pushes himself to get back in

 

[Tetley Tigers]

Has been kept on the list as potential trade bait for when GC enter the competition. As GC will already know they cannot start the AFL comp with a team full of 18 year olds. They will need to complement their side with older bodies.

Simple case of quid pro quo - GC have draft picks, other sides including Richmond will have players they are willing to trade e.g. Raines (perhaps even McGuane - both Queenslanders). Richmond might be able to nab a first round pick for Raines, who knows?

 

[TigerGlory]

Raines had a blinder of a season in 2006, and followed it up with a disappointing 2007. He was injured this year, and so should probably be given a break.

Can we maybe give young kids more than two years before we bite their heads off?

 

[im a legend]

Raines had a blinder of a season in 2006, and followed it up with a disappointing 2007. He was injured this year, and so should probably be given a break.

Can we maybe give young kids more than two years before we bite their heads off?

True.
Many forget that he is a quality player. I wouldn't get rid of our player to the GC.
Maybe JON

 

[sante]

Raines wouldn't want to leave us for the GC. He is yellow and black.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Raines wouldn't want to leave us for the GC. He is yellow and black.

Yeah just like his dad was

 

[TigerGlory]

Yeah just like his dad was

Pretty sure old Geoff told Andrew that leaving Richmond was the biggest mistake of his career, and I doubt he'd stand by and let his son do it too.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Anyone wanting to play Raines in midfield or on a wing (or on the HBF for that matter) seems to be confusing his father's great talents for Andrew's lack of the same talents.

Geoff was a magnificent kick with great vision who could hit players on the lead from 60m away with a hard, flat kick. Geoff moved like a cat, had more than enough pace for his era, and also had tremendous stamina for his era.

Andrew can improve his vision and decision making somewhat over time (and remember he's coming from a low base in improving either), but unless a season-ending knee injury and a pre-season somehow changes things, his kicking will still be a liability. When he's called upon to kick long he sets his teammates up with mongrel sky punts which they have to wait under. A turnover or - at best - total lack of maintaining advantage and fast flowing ball movement is the inevitable result. The last thing we need is another Campbellesque midfielder who spends large chunks of games working out how to avoid kicking the ball long quickly.

If he can't kick then he's competing against blokes like Tuck, Foley, Jackson, Coughlan and now Thomson (and in all likelihood King) to be a hard nut extractor with the stamina and strength to go all day.

While it's only fair to allow players the chance to improve and to reserve judgement on them with that in mind, I can't in all honesty see a situation where Raines improves his kicking enough to beat others out of a spot as an outside mid/winger/rebounding flanker, nor can I see him beating out some very good quality hard nut extractors for one of those spots.

Even his default position as a back pocket is under siege from all directions - we didn't miss him one iota last year and would even less this year without injuries opening up a place for him.

I just don't see a spot in our best-22 for him even with natural improvement on his flaws, and certainly no place for him as an inside or outside mid.

Depth player at best.

 

[Top_4_Tiger]

Depth player at best?

Didn't he come 2nd in our B+F during his 3rd year?

 

[Rayzorwire]

Depth player at best?

Didn't he come 2nd in our B+F during his 3rd year?

So? B&F rankings are pretty much irrelevant and Raines' 2006 season is a prime example. Our side was full of senior players on the way out who wouldn't be in our best-22 now either (Krakouer, Gaspar, Kellaway, P Bowden, Hyde, Rodan, Tivendale, Roach, Howat, Chaffey), players who missed at least several games and/or played injured (Coughlan, Brown, Newman, Richardson, Hall, Johnson, Stafford, Knobel), and juniors the same age or younger than him who played far more important key roles (Deledio, Tambling, Foley) and whose contribution suffered because of it.

Raines' once in a lifetime B&F finish must be viewed in the proper context which takes all of the above into account - not to mention the fact that a player like Tuck who is slightly older, copped the best taggers in the comp while Raines played on nobody's and at many times, literally nobody.

The major reason for the stark contrast between Raines' 2006 season and his 2007 season is that he went up a little in the order of responsibility - not getting the worst small forward anymore - and that sides had worked out he was a one-trick pony. Nobody was shocked anymore when he tucked the ball under his arm and tried to meander his way through tackles. As a consequence, the one thing which made him look a player was gone and no longer an asset to him in any way.

If you want to make a case for him under the same positional framework I've outlined above, go right ahead.

Who is he going to keep out of the side?

 

[ize_]

It's worth remembering that we haven't seen him for a year. I reckon give him a go in the guts, or at least the wing, all pre season, that is NAB Cup and Challenge, and see if he's learned any new tricks.

 

[Tetley Tigers]

So? B&F rankings are pretty much irrelevant and Raines' 2006 season is a prime example. Our side was full of senior players on the way out who wouldn't be in our best-22 now either (Krakouer, Gaspar, Kellaway, P Bowden, Hyde, Rodan, Tivendale, Roach, Howat, Chaffey), players who missed at least several games and/or played injured (Coughlan, Brown, Newman, Richardson, Hall, Johnson, Stafford, Knobel), and juniors the same age or younger than him who played far more important key roles (Deledio, Tambling, Foley) and whose contribution suffered because of it.

Raines' once in a lifetime B&F finish must be viewed in the proper context which takes all of the above into account - not to mention the fact that a player like Tuck who is slightly older, copped the best taggers in the comp while Raines played on nobody's and at many times, literally nobody.

The major reason for the stark contrast between Raines' 2006 season and his 2007 season is that he went up a little in the order of responsibility - not getting the worst small forward anymore - and that sides had worked out he was a one-trick pony. Nobody was shocked anymore when he tucked the ball under his arm and tried to meander his way through tackles. As a consequence, the one thing which made him look a player was gone and no longer an asset to him in any way.

If you want to make a case for him under the same positional framework I've outlined above, go right ahead.

Who is he going to keep out of the side?

What are you doing writing on this board? You make way too much sense. You should get a job at the Age.

 

[Bojangles17]

he's the forgotten man rainsey, alot of water passed under the bridge in his absence, in that itme the bar has officially been raised a few notches as it should be..If he doesnt put in huge strides this pre season , he'll be left in the wake of this emerging crop of talent

 

[Madtiger2006]

I don't have a position for Raines in our side. Doesn't have the skills or the smarts to play small and not tall enough to play KP. If the new qld side offer something for him, then it's a deal

 

[Crumden]

Geoff was a magnificent kick with great vision who could hit players on the lead from 60m away with a hard, flat kick. Geoff moved like a cat, had more than enough pace for his era, and also had tremendous stamina for his era.

Geoff had a raking kick on him, but I don't recall 60m passes on to the chest. Usually they were long and highish for one of our big blokes like Roach, BT or Cloke to latch on to. Andrew does float his kicks more which gives opponents more time to cover them, but they are still ok for a quick long kick into the forward line. His kicking just isn't suited to the half back line where a 50m kick just ends up in the hands of the wall across our half forward - he needs to be kicking deep into the forward lline. Playing on a wing also gives him more space to run and its still a position we have a vacancy in IMO.

he's the forgotten man rainsey, alot of water passed under the bridge in his absence, in that itme the bar has officially been raised a few notches as it should be..If he doesnt put in huge strides this pre season , he'll be left in the wake of this emerging crop of talent

We had Jake King playing back there for half the season, so the bar was still pretty bloody low then. Tambling moving back there changed things and King was the one to miss out. So it all depends if Tambling can improve enough to become a better midfielder. He seems to suit the backline, so if he stays there I'd agree with you.

 

[mattdamon12]

should be tried on the wing as a tagger.
would go alright as a run with player, might as well give it a try!

 

[Les Grossman]

If King is getting a spot now then Raines is good enough to get a game in 2009. He is superior to King in all areas.

 

[Madtiger2006]

If King is getting a spot now then Raines is good enough to get a game in 2009. He is superior to King in all areas.

I rate King better. He's quicker and provides great rebound. He has better skills too.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Geoff had a raking kick on him, but I don't recall 60m passes on to the chest. Usually they were long and highish for one of our big blokes like Roach, BT or Cloke to latch on to.

Hitting a player on the chest is just an identical way of saying that he was able to kick to the receiver's advantage - be that out in front, deep, or on top of the head against an outsized opponent. Geoff could do those things, consistently, and his range went out to 60m.

Andrew does float his kicks more which gives opponents more time to cover them, but they are still ok for a quick long kick into the forward line. His kicking just isn't suited to the half back line where a 50m kick just ends up in the hands of the wall across our half forward - he needs to be kicking deep into the forward lline.

Raines floats his kicks because his kicking style is so inadequate that sending the ball 35m in the air along its journey is the only way he can actually carry the ball 50m - AKA Campbell kicking; except without the cleverness which often allowed Campbell to get away with it.

There is no such thing as a quick AND long kick for blokes with that flaw - if it goes genuinely long it has to go very high and it takes too long to get to the receiver.

In an era where it's now increasingly common for defenders to zone off and help double team a fellow defender's opponent, it makes no sense to me to argue that a bloke who kicks like Raines does is better placed kicking inside the forward-50 than from half-back.

That's leaving aside the fact that a wingman is often the bloke expected to receive across half-back, seldom well forward of the centre poised to kick deep inside the forward line (as you seem to be implying) - that's the realm of a half-forward flanker and even forward pockets these days. Is that where you think he should play?