Discussion Random Discussion

[pebblesofsand]

Its a radio interview with a very expierenced captain. 52 years on the job.

I can only imagine what his crews are saying too. If he is saying this, what do you think they are saying?

Listen to those on the ground. He is conveying what he is seeing and has seen. Maybe you have the agenda like some of your mates in here.

"Its a radio interview with a very expierenced captain. 52 years on the job."

So why don't you listen to me then?

I have almost an equal amount of experience in hands on fire fighting (40+ years) but more importantly as part of the Level 3 Incident Management Team (the ones responsible for managing campaign fires like we have experienced this summer) I've actually have had to plan, deal with and respond to fire behaviour on an hour by hour basis whether as wildfires or as part of fuel reduction burning procedures.

So here's the simple truth Johnny - fire behaviour in 2020 is more erratic and more volatile (and therefore much more dangerous) than any other known period and this is due to factors associated with climate change.

Simple fact.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Yeah and i hope Masvidal belts the crap out of the maggot

Why would Masvidal belt the crap out of himself tho?

 

[Crusty Undies]

I have no agenda.

This link I provided is about the bushfires and comments from a 52 year veteran bushfire captain who obviously knows his shit and the true causes of the bushfires.

Have many bushfires have you fought?
How much real knowledge do you have on the actual ground where bushfires occur?
Have you ever lived in and/or visited Sth East Australia where these bushfires are?

What are you talking about anyway?

If you don't listen to what this 52 year bushfire vet is conveying then you're an idiot and a denier.

And if you don't listen to the hundreds of other firefighters, 37 ex State and Federal Firefighting chiefs and thousands of scientists publishing legitimate peer reviewed papers then you're an idiot and a denier.

 

[Crusty Undies]

"Its a radio interview with a very expierenced captain. 52 years on the job."

So why don't you listen to me then?

I have almost an equal amount of experience in hands on fire fighting (40+ years) but more importantly as part of the Level 3 Incident Management Team (the ones responsible for managing campaign fires like we have experienced this summer) I've actually have had to plan, deal with and respond to fire behaviour on an hour by hour basis whether as wildfires or as part of fuel reduction burning procedures.

So here's the simple truth Johnny - fire behaviour in 2020 is more erratic and more volatile (and therefore much more dangerous) than any other known period and this is due to factors associated with climate change.

Simple fact.

This is the single best response I've seen to anything the bookmark himself has said.

 

[StFly]

"Its a radio interview with a very expierenced captain. 52 years on the job."

So why don't you listen to me then?

I have almost an equal amount of experience in hands on fire fighting (40+ years) but more importantly as part of the Level 3 Incident Management Team (the ones responsible for managing campaign fires like we have experienced this summer) I've actually have had to plan, deal with and respond to fire behaviour on an hour by hour basis whether as wildfires or as part of fuel reduction burning procedures.

So here's the simple truth Johnny - fire behaviour in 2020 is more erratic and more volatile (and therefore much more dangerous) than any other known period and this is due to factors associated with climate change.

Simple fact.

Your problem is you obviously need to go on radio, or publish articles in Rupert media to get the point across obviously, then you'll reach the populace that considers bullshit as roses.

Purely coincidental emissions trebeled and spiked after jets, nukes and spacecraft were invented all at the same time and consume copius amounts of minerals.

 

[Moral Decay]

I have no agenda.

This link I provided is about the bushfires and comments from a 52 year veteran bushfire captain who obviously knows his shit and the true causes of the bushfires.

Have many bushfires have you fought?
How much real knowledge do you have on the actual ground where bushfires occur?
Have you ever lived in and/or visited Sth East Australia where these bushfires are?

What are you talking about anyway?

If you don't listen to what this 52 year bushfire vet is conveying then you're an idiot and a denier.

All those questions can and should be asked and answered by you too

I'm 54 yrs old with 30 years living in east gippsland, my family have been here since the 1850s, I've been here for the major fires of 2003,08,19. I've fought the fires, done the tree planting, done the fire tower, worked the farms and timber milling, worked with the old men that fought the 1939 fires on horse back. I've done the timber technology course run by ex CSIRO Forestry.

I was there in 03 when CFA refused to fight any fire off the bitumen, I remember when Wulgulmerang was left to burn and the same with Ensay and Omeo this year, I understand why and I know the old men that stayed and fougt on with shitty old utes and slipons and I know the young people on DEWLP fighting fires and wrecking themselves doing it and the CFA, I admire and am grateful for them all, but like anyone in the bush I'll tell you that anyone who relies on them is an idiot.

So I'm telling you he's dangerously wrong.

Firstly because 3 years ago the forests were the driest they have been for 50 years, no fuel reduction burn has been safe to do for a decade.

Less than 28% of the forest is accessable to conduct a fuel reduction burn it is simply too steep and too rough to get machinery and people in.

Our indigenous people did fire stick farming, to create a green pick, a flush of new growth in fire regenerative species, not to reduce fuel, these fires over generation made the landscape less fertile and more inclined to burn. They did not do these burns in the moutains, the were conducted as farming on flat lands at coastal level and flat lands in the high country, these areas wete regarded as farming and these are the lands we farm now.

Fuel reduction burns work for between one and six seasons, but while a regimen of fuel reduction burns reduce fuel in the undergrowth they don't stop fires, they slow the spread of fires on coolish days with moderate winds, they do not stop, slow, reduce or diminish prevalence or severity of crown fires, exactly the fires we are dealing with now.

The worst of the things you are advocating is that they will deliver the opposite of what you think they will, at very best they will be highly expensive, pointless and give people a false sense of security.

What is your experience, what are your qualifications, who do you know? So far it's been nothing.

Get out of wherever you are get in a car and drive have a look at Sarsfield and Wiseliegh, go up the Great Alpine Rd. Get to Malacoota and have a good look, you need to make all the pain, the anger and suffering real. Youu need to see it and smell it, you really needed to be there when it happened to have any idea of the pain, the fear and the sense of hopeless helplessness.

You should be ashamed of the rubbish you have posted, that you're not says more about you than I ever could.

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

Righto, so this bushfire vet of 52 years has no idea like the other thousands of volunteers who are saying similar things about why the bushfires were worse this year and a tinderbox waiting to happen.

Is he lying is he?
Maybe Rupert paid him off.

Okkkkk......

Cue X Files music.

 

[gringo2011]

Australia's Bushfires Are the Worst Ever. So Is the Disinformation Campaign

Right-wingers in Australia and elsewhere are blaming environmentalists and arsonists while trying to avoid a conversation about climate change.

www.vice.com

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

Australia's Bushfires Are the Worst Ever. So Is the Disinformation Campaign

Right-wingers in Australia and elsewhere are blaming environmentalists and arsonists while trying to avoid a conversation about climate change.

www.vice.com

As that bushfire vet of 52 years said, even the temps were 2 degrees cooler it wouldn't have done nothing to stop the bushfires. Same as if Australia was 100% renewable for 20 years. Wouldn't have stopped a thing.

That is just 100% realistic fact.

 

[gringo2011]

Righto, so this bushfire vet of 52 years has no idea like the other thousands of volunteers who are saying similar things about why the bushfires were worse this year and a tinderbox waiting to happen.

Is he lying is he?
Maybe Rupert paid him off.

Okkkkk......

Cue X Files music.

So one guy with bushfire experience has credibility that outweighs all of climate science? My dad has a farmer cousin who thinks city bureaucrats with university degrees are making life hard because he needs permits to do shit he used to not have to have them for. He claims he'll get burnt out and it will be their fault.....there is hardly a tree on his property, the long grass all around his sheds and his propensity for hoarding shit will probably be more of an issue. He used to do CFA until he retired. He'd probably be just like that guy. Only he's a bit of a nut job.

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

So one guy with bushfire experience has credibility that outweighs all of climate science? My dad has a farmer cousin who thinks city bureaucrats with university degrees are making life hard because he needs permits to do shit he used to not have to have them for. He claims he'll get burnt out and it will be their fault.....there is hardly a tree on his property, the long grass all around his sheds and his propensity for hoarding shit will probably be more of an issue. He used to do CFA until he retired. He'd probably be just like that guy. Only he's a bit of a nut job.

Angry fire fighters demand fuel reduction burns

Veteran NSW fire captain Bruce Richardson is demanding volunteers be heard at a national fire inquiry, blasting "crazy" red tape for stopping hazard reduction burns.

www.afr.com

This bloke lying too is he?
Or is he a nutjob too?

The blokes on the ground know their shit and bushfire experts like Packham and Jurskis back them up big time. Climate scientists are not bushfire experts.

I simply can't believe people are that arrogant and dismissive of these firies and experts.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Angry fire fighters demand fuel reduction burns

Veteran NSW fire captain Bruce Richardson is demanding volunteers be heard at a national fire inquiry, blasting "crazy" red tape for stopping hazard reduction burns.

www.afr.com

This bloke lying too is he?
Or is he a nutjob too?

The blokes on the ground know their shit and bushfire experts like Packham and Jurskis back them up big time. Climate scientists are not bushfire experts.

I simply can't believe people are that arrogant and dismissive of these firies and experts.

Again, you haven't applied the same rigorous level of criticism to yourself as you do to anyone else. Why are you willing to ignore literally hundreds of sources saying one thing because one random source you can find from someone who is not qualified in any meaningful way to explain why the fires are so bad says what you want it to say?

I don't think anyone is necessarily ignoring what this guy has to say but in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary it's fair to discount it. You don't seem to understand that.

 

[Hubnester]

As that bushfire vet of 52 years said, even the temps were 2 degrees cooler it wouldn't have done nothing to stop the bushfires. Same as if Australia was 100% renewable for 20 years. Wouldn't have stopped a thing.

That is just 100% realistic fact.

Who said that reducing the temperature by 2 degrees 'right now' would stop the bushfires? Nobody. It's a meaningless comment. Did you know pissing in a jar and throwing it at the fire 'right now' would also do nothing? 100% realistic fact.

Surely since your long-term volunteer firefighter is an expert on the matter, he understands that you can't realistically go and do hazard burns on the vast majority of bushland whenever you want, because the conditions are too dangerous. Because climate change is both increasing temperatures and making droughts worse, safe conditions to burn are becoming less common. What is his expert solution to this?

What's your take on the countless other firies who continually deny that 'crazy red tape' has prevented any major burn offs? Also armed with firefighting experience and often actually educated on the subject to boot?

 

[gringo2011]

Angry fire fighters demand fuel reduction burns

Veteran NSW fire captain Bruce Richardson is demanding volunteers be heard at a national fire inquiry, blasting "crazy" red tape for stopping hazard reduction burns.

www.afr.com

This bloke lying too is he?
Or is he a nutjob too?

The blokes on the ground know their shit and bushfire experts like Packham and Jurskis back them up big time. Climate scientists are not bushfire experts.

I simply can't believe people are that arrogant and dismissive of these firies and experts.

Yes, you won't believe me but the VFFA is a sham. They are a political organisation associated with the Shooters party. Richardson is the head of them. They trick people into joining them like they are a union but are actually a completely unregulated organisation that doesn't keep numbers of members and doesn't have AGMs or any other kind of proper structure like if they were a real group. They fail to declare their earning from memberships etc. They are making journalists and people like you look like dumb arses as they push their political agenda. You will find out you've been played at some point.

 

[gringo2011]

Bloody Greens, obviously they made Dutton bury his action plan to make him look bad and force him to not do burn offs. Also in a left wing nut paper so could be leftie lies.

Government buried climate risk action plan
An action plan to prepare for the dire effects of natural disasters gathered dust for 18 months in the run-up to the current catastrophic bushfires.

www.afr.com

 

[Moral Decay]

Righto, so this bushfire vet of 52 years has no idea like the other thousands of volunteers who are saying similar things about why the bushfires were worse this year and a tinderbox waiting to happen.

Is he lying is he?
Maybe Rupert paid him off.

Okkkkk......

Cue X Files music.

As usual your hysteria and lack of knowledge are coming to the fore, he at no point claims any knowledge of fires in Victoria, if he's a member of the RFS there's every chance he's never fought a "bush fire" like the CFA the remit of the RFS is country towns, grass fires, shed fires etc. for example the CFA have nothing to do with lighting or managing fuel reduction burns. Being Captain in an RFS unit does not mean you have either the knowledge or experience or equipment to fight a bush fire let alone have an understanding of forest management particularly one in another state. Even the MFB when the went to Bright admitted they would be of no use in the forest, they would have just got in the way and the MFB are professionals
It's like taking a Mazda RX7 to a deisel mechanic yeah he works on an internal combustion engine but a rotary is a very different creature.

Either way my problem isn't with him it's with you and you still haven't backed anything with your own experience.

What is it? Have you been to a zoo? Sat a wooden table or sat on a leather chair, go on wow me with your experience.

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

This is pointless. You blokes are so biased it's not funny. You contradict yourselves at every corner not listening to these blokes and firies on the ground plus bushfire experts in Jurksis, Underwood and Packham.

I think some of you fellas have been sucked into this over hyped catastrophic doomer mindset big time. But there are always ulterior motives for some as they are so desperate to push this man made climate change agenda and link it to the 19/20 bushfires. Sad really. These devious people are the worst and if you think they are all there just to save and green the planet then you are f'ing dreaming or on the shard.

Australia and the globe will keep spinning folks.

 

[Hubnester]

I refuse to believe anybody's mind can legitimately work this way and truthfully believe what they're saying.
Tried to give benefit of the doubt, troll continued to troll. Time to move on.

 

[CursingFijian]

I refuse to believe anybody's mind can legitimately work this way and truthfully believe what they're saying.
Tried to give benefit of the doubt, troll continued to troll. Time to move on.

This.

 

[Moral Decay]

This is pointless. You blokes are so biased it's not funny. You contradict yourselves at every corner not listening to these blokes and firies on the ground plus bushfire experts in Jurksis, Underwood and Packham.

I think some of you fellas have been sucked into this over hyped catastrophic doomer mindset big time. But there are always ulterior motives for some as they are so desperate to push this man made climate change agenda and link it to the 19/20 bushfires. Sad really. These devious people are the worst and if you think they are all there just to save and green the planet then you are f'ing dreaming or on the shard.

Australia and the globe will keep spinning folks.

Nah, we're not biased, you however are morally, ethically and intellectually bankrupt, we've shown you far more grace, patience and kindness by reading your uninformed pointless drivel, every single one of your arguments has been refuted time and time again, you've been challenged time and time again and you've got nothing, stop whining, be an adult. See a psychiatrist.

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

The arrogance.

Yes, you are all right and everyone that disagrees with you like myself has mental problems - even experts on bushfires and the thousands of firies on the ground. The sheer arrogance and hubris is astounding.

No one has refuted or disproved anything here. You just think you have inside your little green safe space bubble. Its kind of hilarious.

Take another read from a bushfire expert.

NoCookies | The Australian

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The AustralianMonday, January 20, 2020
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Bushfire crisis: Climate wailing ignores fuel build-upsROGER UNDERWOOD
Illustration: Eric Lobbecke

• 12:00AM DECEMBER 19, 2019
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A group of former “fire chiefs” is blaming the current bushfires across Australia on climate change and demanding that Scott Morrison take urgent action to fix the climate. This, it claims, will fix the bushfire threat.
Even if we could change the climate (cooler summers, saturating winter rains, light breezes, no more droughts), it would not influence the current weather patterns or stop the fierce bushfires coming up the driveway this afternoon.
Even if we knew exactly how to change the climate, anything we did in Australia would have to be replicated globally (especially in China and India) to make any difference; and even if global measures were applied tomorrow, the desired new climate might not cut in for many years.
The “climate change is causing bushfires” position has two killer flaws. It takes no account of fuels. And it prescribes no practical actions that will help with the immediate bushfire threat. Ignoring fuel is an error of astonishing magnitude. In Bushfire 101 we learned about the fire triangle. A bushfire can occur only if three things are present: oxygen (in the air), fuel (to burn) and heat (a source of ignition to get the fire started).

If any one of the three is missing, no fire.
Nothing can be done to remove the air and the oxygen it contains. Nothing can be done to stop bushfires starting. They will be lit by lightning strikes or started by humans, deliberately or accidentally.
READ MORE:Mates turn on ‘climate firey’|Fire chiefs’ climate group a pet ‘project’ of activist Flannery|East coast facing fire bans|Weather forecast is … heat, then a trough
But bushfire fuel can be removed, or at least the quantity of fuel around a house or in the bush can be reduced to a point where a fire will burn at a relatively low intensity, allowing firefighters to deal with it relatively comfortably.
If fuel is allowed to build up, as happens in long-unburnt eucalypt bushland, the eventual fire will be of high intensity. If a crown fire results, generating a downwind ember storm, the fire will be impossible to control and highly damaging, no matter how many thousands of firefighters and water bombers you throw at it.
Rural firefighters work to control a blaze near the Sunshine Coast motorway. Picture: Lachie Millard
Blaming climate change for the current spate of bushfires ignores the fact these bushfires have proven almost impossible to control once they got going. This is because they are burning heavy fuels dried out by drought. Ignoring fuel is the ultimate cop-out. It absolves the authorities of any responsibility for the incubation of this fire epidemic through the years as dangerous levels of fuel were allowed to build up in the nation’s bushlands.
But what of the solutions proposed by the “fire chiefs”? I have yet to see any, other than the usual suggestions to curtail CO2 emissions, shut down coal-fired power stations, no coalmines, switch to electric cars, use trains instead of aircraft, and so on. What will these measures actually achieve? There is no agreement. When will their impact on the climate become significant? There is no agreement on this either, other than vague statements about 2030 or 2040. As far as I can see the “fire chiefs” have offered nothing of any practical or immediate value in terms of bushfire management.

THEAUSTRALIAN.COM.AU2:15 Former fire chiefs accuse Morrison govt of climate change inaction

A group of former fire chiefs has accused the Morrison government of being "asleep at the wheel" when it comes to the bushfire crisis plaguing Au...

However, I am in full agreement with them on one thing: something must be done to fix the bushfire crisis in Australia.
A good start would be for governments and bureaucrats to acknowledge the three great truths about bushfires in this country. First, Australia is naturally bushfire-prone. This is because of our hot, dry summers, periodic droughts, flammable vegetation and abundant sources of ignition. Second, bushfires cannot be prevented. Third, their severity and damage can be minimised but this requires effective management.
The effective approach is well understood and field-tested. You must harden-up rural and semi-rural communities to increase their resilience in the expectation of fire. You should reduce the fuels in the bush. And you need an efficient firefighting force. It won’t work with only one of the three; you must have them all, properly integrated.
Former NSW Fire and Rescue Commissioner Greg Mullins. Picture: AAP
Trouble is, the nation as a whole does not understand or agree on these key points. There is confusion about priorities. Thus we see “fire chiefs” focusing on climate change, environmentalists on protecting biodiversity, the fire services on firefighting, and the aviation industry (backed by the media) pushing for more and bigger water bombers.
Meanwhile, politicians are scrambling to please everyone, and pleasing nobody. The leadership vacuum is devastating.
In my opinion, the intervention from the “fire chiefs” is political, based on the “take action on climate change” agenda rather than the “fix the bushfire crisis now” agenda.
There is nothing the matter with being a climate activist, per se, but advocating policies that distract the authorities from dealing with the immediate bushfire threat can be described only as irresponsible.
Roger Underwood is chairman of the Perth-based Bushfire Front. He has 60 years’ experience in bushfire management.

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

Ferocity of bushfires in Australia will experience ‘exponential effect’ without intervention

Without adequate management and fire reduction burn offs, the ferocity of Australia's fires will continue to incur an "exponential effect" to the point where "no firefighting force known to man" can stop it, says bushfire specialist Roger Underwood. Mr Underwood said he is "very worried" that...

www.skynews.com.au

Packham and Underwood together. Decades of expert bushfire expierence between them. What would they know...

And don't use Sky News and Peda Credlin to discredit them. Its not relevant.

Packham and Underwood have been saying the same things for years on end. Decades even.

Its great millions of Aussies are listening to and hearing guys like this at the moment. I have passed this onto all my friends, family and work colleagues.

 

[jwikked]

Ferocity of bushfires in Australia will experience ‘exponential effect’ without intervention

Without adequate management and fire reduction burn offs, the ferocity of Australia's fires will continue to incur an "exponential effect" to the point where "no firefighting force known to man" can stop it, says bushfire specialist Roger Underwood. Mr Underwood said he is "very worried" that...

www.skynews.com.au

Packham and Underwood together. Decades of expert bushfire expierence between them. What would they know...

And don't use Sky News and Peda Credlin to discredit them. Its not relevant.

Packham and Underwood have been saying the same things for years on end. Decades even.

Its great millions of Aussies are listening to and hearing guys like this at the moment. I have passed this onto all my friends, family and work colleagues.

Did you also pass on the NASA climate change information website I linked to you last week? Full of great information from the worlds best scientists.
https://climate.nasa.gov/

I recommend you give it a read. If you’re impressed by how much a firefighter knows, just wait until you see what a collective group of experts with thousands of years experience between them have to say.

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

Did you also pass on the NASA climate change information website I linked to you last week? Full of great information from the worlds best scientists.
https://climate.nasa.gov/

I recommend you give it a read. If you’re impressed by how much a firefighter knows, just wait until you see what a collective group of experts with thousands of years experience between them have to say.

And what does NASA know about the Aussie bushfires?
Do they get in under the eucalyptus trees and study excessive fuel loads and hazard reduction techniques?
Have they spoken with Aboriginal elders and firefighters on the ground?
Are they planning on sending astronauts to fight the bushfires? (I thought they were more interested in going to Mars).

That link or whatever you're trying to convey has no relevance to the post of mine you quoted or what I have been discussing.

 

[bergholt]

The blokes on the ground know their shit

Haven't there been about 20 of them quoted in the media who think climate change is making this worse than any fires they've seen before? How do you decide which ones to listen to?

Personally I reckon you should ignore all the "blokes on the ground" because they don't have the perspective, they're just ordinary guys who can see what's in front of their nose. We don't get the ordinary blokes in the outer to coach our footy team so I don't see why we'd get the ordinary blokes on the ground to set our climate policy.