Random thoughts from the game...

[OldStyle2007]

Geez, you should write for a tabloid newspaper, that really is sensationalist in the extreme.

It was a GF - and thus a hugely important game. But to say that the "team needed to beat Hawthorn to avenge years and years of abuse" is just rubbish. We needed to win because it was a GF, pure and simple. If you think a few games that happened 10+ years ago had any relevance to this years GF, then you are kidding yourself.

Well, not only was this a GF and hugely important but it was a GF against our mortal enemies: the Cats own version of football kryptonite. So yes it was ultra important. Club's have an evolving history, and this was a milestone they failed badly at it. Stack it next to the other GF humiliations

Put it another way: Don't you think if it was a Collingwood v Essendon match or Carlton v Collingwood that the importance of winning would have been mentioned? Carlton won the 1999 Prelim Final almost entirely on the need to stick one up Essendon

And let me put it another way. Don't know if you've played a lot of footy, but if your club comes up against a bogey side a few of the older players will normally have something to say during the week to let the younger guys know about the significance of a win and putting in a bit extra on the day

Some of the players looked pretty casual for what was the most significant match I have even seen the club play in my 30 years of following footy. This was their chance to etch themselves into history as one of the great sides and to do it against the club's own nemesis and they failed

I don't think a bit of extra gee'ing up would have gone astray

I'm totally sick of the "I don't think we need to remind people about the significance of this game" line. From the evidence of the last 2 GF's, maybe some of the players in the losing sides DID NEED TO BE REMINDED how important a GF is

 

[The rabbi]

It just wasn't meant to be for you:

I don't think ANY team in the modern era could hate a club as much as Geelong would hate Hawthorn. I'm not a Cats fan, so it's not really up for me to say, but have a look at some of these examples :

1.) 1988 Night Grand Final. A chance for the Cats to win some sort of premiership. The Hawks spoil the party.

2.) 1989 Round 6. Geelong lead by 54 points during the scond quarter. Hawthorn win, in the highest scoring game in league history. Geelong kick the highest ever losing score. The score is 171-163. The Hawks do it to Geelong again.

3.) 1989 Grand Final. Another close win to the Hawks, this time by a goal (144-138)

4.) 1990 Round 1. Hawthorn beat Geelong by 20 goals. Geelong was looking for revenge following their narrow Grand Final loss 6 months earlier, but they were humiliated and embarassed. 120 points, you gotta be kidding.

5.) The 1991 second-semi final. Hawthorn win by 2 points and go INTO the 1991 Grand Final. Yet another close win by the Hawks over the Cats. In retrospect, this match decided the premiership. If Geelong had won this match, it is highly likely they would have won the Grand Final. The Hawks cost the Cats another flag.

6.), 7.), 8.) and 9.) Four matches, at Kardinia Park of all places, between 1995 and 1999. I think by memory the four games were in 1995,96,97 and 1999. Incredibly, the Hawks won all four by less than a goal. That's right, all four. On Geelongs own home ground, the Hawks won 4 games by less than a kick. The curse is now officially a plague.

10.) 1999 at Waverley: The Hawks end Geelong finals hopes, with -you guessed it- a narrow win at Waverley. Hawthorn won by 3 points from memory ending Geelong's season.

11.) Round 22 1987: Geelong vs Hawthorn at Kardinia Park. If Geelong win they go into the finals 5, and finish 5th. If they lose, they are out. Geelong lead all day by around five goals, however, in time-on of the last quarter, Hawthorn finally hit the front by 3 points, and deny Geelong a finals berth.

CONCLUSON : Whenever Hawthorn play Geelong and the match is important, or close, Hawthorn will win. Geelong will only win if the match is either unimportant, or one-sided.

Geelong is incapable of beating Hawthorn when anything important is riding on it in the modern era. Ironically, Geelong's last premiership, in 1963 was over the Hawks. Wouldn't it be funny if the Hawks happened to have won that game all those years ago !

More recently, add the 2000 Elimination final at Telstra Dome - Hawks win a tight one.

2006 - Round 22, Hawthorn send out Jonny Barker on a high with a thumping of Geelong at the Dome.

2007 - Despite winning the premiership that year, Hawthorn was the one team that Geelong failed to beat that year

2008 GF - Enough said.

Wow - what kind of curse of on the Cats?

It's almost ridiculous!

As a 50 year old Cat supporter, I have felt that we have been Hawthorn's bitches for quite some time. I think that it is about time that we reversed the curse. I wanted to play anyone in the GF this year besides Hawthorn.

At the same time, if we take the 4 points off them when we play them in the home and away rounds, I only hope the Geelong Addy does not splash "REVENGE' on the sporting pages or front page as it has tended to do in the past. It isn't revenge. It's only 4 points.

 

[Hinkley29]

Well, not only was this a GF and hugely important but it was a GF against our mortal enemies: the Cats own version of football kryptonite. So yes it was ultra important. Club's have an evolving history, and this was a milestone they failed badly at it. Stack it next to the other GF humiliations

Put it another way: Don't you think if it was a Collingwood v Essendon match or Carlton v Collingwood that the importance of winning would have been mentioned? Carlton won the 1999 Prelim Final almost entirely on the need to stick one up Essendon

And let me put it another way. Don't know if you've played a lot of footy, but if your club comes up against a bogey side a few of the older players will normally have something to say during the week to let the younger guys know about the significance of a win and putting in a bit extra on the day

Some of the players looked pretty casual for what was the most significant match I have even seen the club play in my 30 years of following footy. This was their chance to etch themselves into history as one of the great sides and to do it against the club's own nemesis and they failed

I don't think a bit of extra gee'ing up would have gone astray

I'm totally sick of the "I don't think we need to remind people about the significance of this game" line. From the evidence of the last 2 GF's, maybe some of the players in the losing sides DID NEED TO BE REMINDED how important a GF is

This is just more tabloid-worthy stuff.

Do you honestly think that if Bomber went running around the change rooms before the match saying "we have to win this one, you know to avenge all the losses against Hawthorn of past teams that you guys had nothing to do with. Gaz - I think you need to put in an extra special effort to avenge your dad's heroic 1989 GF effort......(blah blah blah you get my point)" that it would have made a lick of difference to the result?

As a professional footballer, a GF is the ultimate. If you can't get 100% motivated for a GF, then no external factors are going to help you. If you can't get 100% motivated for a GF you are in the wrong job.

Hawthorn out-thought us and out-played us on the day. We lost. Pure and simple. Motivation had nothing to do with it. Hawthorn were better than us on the day and to suggest that somehow a magic pep talk before the game would have changed that is not only ludicrous but also extremely disrespectful to Hawthorn.

 

[catempire]

I'm with Ken on this one.

To suggest that the results of matches 10, 20 or 30 years ago had any bearing on the result is pure fallacy.

 

[Pepp]

Agreed - Hoodoos and having the wood over someone is a fan thing. The players wouldn't give a toss about historical results. Thats more of a thing for the pre game intro on Ch7 with Bruce.

Players know who has the wood on them and it is usually because they have given you a right old flogging in your last 2 - 3 games not the last 20 years when your old man was still running round with tight shorts and a mullet.

 

[Hinkley29]

Agreed - Hoodoos and having the wood over someone is a fan thing. The players wouldn't give a toss about historical results. Thats more of a thing for the pre game intro on Ch7 with Bruce.

Players know who has the wood on them and it is usually because they have given you a right old flogging in your last 2 - 3 games not the last 20 years when your old man was still running round with tight shorts and a mullet.

Now I have a mental image of my old man running around with tight shorts and a mullett. Good times!

 

[Pepp]

For me, as a passionate Cats fan, Hodge was clearly the winner of the NS (and is a fantastic player to boot). Cats played into his hands time and time again on the day, and he kept comng up with the answers. Got to so many contests, and didn't lose one that I can remember.

Having said that, I'm never watching the game again, so I'll never know.

'Criticism' of Ablett is ridiculous (and probably just a response to Cats fans not lauding Hodge).

When the rest of the team is performing abysmally, why wouldn't you want the ball at every contest, no matter what position you are in?

If the other Cats were calling for the footy in vastly better positions, they would have received it. Fact is, most of them were not in the game...

Ablett handballed a lot on the day, because the Hawks did a very good job of containing him, and were also clearly outnumbering the Cats when he looked up to kick the ball into the forward line.

Hodge was superb, Ablett was very good...end of story.

And, of course, it doesn't matter, anyway. Only thing that mattered was being in front at the final siren.

Yeah fair enough. I was drawing a long bow and feeling a bit mischevious with that post. How can I not love a man who has made it cool to be a baldie again. Long live Jnr, harley and Chappie.

On a more serious note, what are the thoughts about Tommy Hawkins. On the day of the GF my thought was "Thank F*%$ he isn't playing" as I thought your forward line was lacking a bit of an x factor. In hindsight....well you know the story.

I reckon he is the key for you guys in 09. Even if he is inconsistent he has to be played. I can't see many backmen matching up well wih him and those tree trunks he runs round on. If he and Mooney can pull off a Franklin / Roughhead then as long as one is kicking em it won't matter what the other one does and suddenly your fwd line is as good as your midfield and backs.

 

[Hodgepodge]

I thought the main thing was Geelong's lack of leg speed as opposed to hawthorn's running machines in Bateman and Young in particular. Also Hodge shored up the defence real well and a lot of inside50s weren't one-on-one contests cos he rose to deliver a spoil or contested the ball when it hit the deck and rebounded with 88% efficiency.

 

[OldStyle2007]

Yeah fair enough. I was drawing a long bow and feeling a bit mischevious with that post. How can I not love a man who has made it cool to be a baldie again. Long live Jnr, harley and Chappie.

On a more serious note, what are the thoughts about Tommy Hawkins. On the day of the GF my thought was "Thank F*%$ he isn't playing" as I thought your forward line was lacking a bit of an x factor. In hindsight....well you know the story.

I reckon he is the key for you guys in 09. Even if he is inconsistent he has to be played. I can't see many backmen matching up well wih him and those tree trunks he runs round on. If he and Mooney can pull off a Franklin / Roughhead then as long as one is kicking em it won't matter what the other one does and suddenly your fwd line is as good as your midfield and backs.

I reckon Gamble was missed more than Hawkins. Hawkins probably would have struggled with the flood as much as Mooney and Lonergan did. Gamble is more nimble and could have caused some issues as he did in Rd 17

But they both will be keys to the 2009 season

 

[Hinkley29]

I reckon Gamble was missed more than Hawkins. Hawkins probably would have struggled with the flood as much as Mooney and Lonergan did. Gamble is more nimble and could have caused some issues as he did in Rd 17

But they both will be keys to the 2009 season

I agree with this.

The only selection decision I would have made differently for the GF was Stokes (injured and out of form) for Gamble. Gamble as a different forwardline option was sorely missed in the GF and I think he will play a big role in 2009.

IMO he will be a revelation in 2009 and take the comp a little by surprise.

Hawkins I am not so confident over (yet). I personally think he is going to be a superstar, but he is at least a year off being a big contributor to our team. Unless he gets a big preseason in (which is appearing unlikely at this stage), I can't see him breaking out in 2009. I will be happy to be proven wrong though should kick 70+ goals in 2009 and take the comp by storm!

 

[OldStyle2007]

The only selection decision I would have made differently for the GF was Stokes (injured and out of form) for Gamble .

So would I be able to find a post from you suggesting this in the lead up to the GF?

 

[Hinkley29]

So would I be able to find a post from you suggesting this in the lead up to the GF?

You would struggle to find many posts at all from me in the lead up to the GF seeing as though I was travelling and only got back home on the Friday before the GF.

You aren't upset about me calling your rants tabloid worthy are you?

 

[OldStyle2007]

You would struggle to find many posts at all from me in the lead up to the GF seeing as though I was travelling and only got back home on the Friday before the GF.

You aren't upset about me calling your rants tabloid worthy are you?

Just thought as you are from a broadsheet there'd be references to back up your prescience

 

[Hinkley29]

Just thought as you are from a broadsheet there'd be references to back up your prescience

I will take that as a compliment.

 

[winty]

Geelong is incapable of beating Hawthorn when anything important is riding on it in the modern era. Ironically, Geelong's last premiership, in 1963 was over the Hawks. Wouldn't it be funny if the Hawks happened to have won that game all those years ago !

Our last premiership was 2007 knob jockey, not 1963.