Rare bowling combinations

[CTreleven]

Has Indian ever fielded a side with four quicks (and no frontline spinner)?

Have the Windies ever fielded a side with two frontline spinners?

Has any side beside Australia ever played two leg spinners?

 

[CAS79]

Have the Windies ever fielded a side with two frontline spinners?

Through the 1950s and into the 60s perhaps Alf Valentine (Left Arm Orthidox)ad Sonny Ramadihn (Off spin) were a spin bowling combination of cricketing legend. That was before the West Indies pace barrage had started in full flight though.

 

[Minka Beaver]

Has Indian ever fielded a side with four quicks (and no frontline spinner)?

Have the Windies ever fielded a side with two frontline spinners?

Has any side beside Australia ever played two leg spinners?

To answer the remaining two:

Yes, India have fielded four quicks and no specialist spinner before.

The first time it happened was - of all places - Sydney (1992, 3rd Test v Australia). Subroto Banerjee was the fourth pace bowler and played his only Test. Ravi Shastri was the part-time spinner for India, who gave Warnie his first Test wicket (caught for 206).

Yes, Australia have played two leg spinners in the same side.

The most notable time was during the early 1930s, when our attack was led by two leg-spinners (Bill O'Reilly and Clarrie Grimmett).

 

[CTreleven]

Thanks.


Minka, what were the circumstances behind the Sydney test? Did India have a spinner who was injured?


I'd meant teams other than Australia for the two leggies.

 

[Minka Beaver]

Woops. Sorry, I jumped the gun on the leggies question. Comprehension fail

Thanks.


Minka, what were the circumstances behind the Sydney test? Did India have a spinner who was injured?


I'd meant teams other than Australia for the two leggies.

From memory, Sydney had received a lot of recent rainfall and it continued during the Test itself - there were several lengthy rain delays. I think India wanted their seamers (Kapil Dev, Prabhaker, Srinath, Banerjee) to exploit the conditions.

They took Venkatapathy Raju (slow left-arm orthodox) and Narendra Hirwani (leg-break googly) with them on the tour. Neither was injured - they simply hadn't had much success in the tour up to that point.

 

[The Passenger]

this is a pretty strange test.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/62943.html

all six indian bowlers are listed as spinners, and they all got through plenty of overs...

a few other weird ones;

www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/62884.html - last innings seven of the nine bowlers were spinners, but it's worth noting jaisimha, manjraker and baig were absolute part timers.

here is a recent match with the windies only fielding two front line paceman - http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63958.html

using mcgarrell and ramnamrine as spinners alongside hooper. they did this reasonably regularly in the 50's. that's the only one i can find in since the 50's though.

 

[BarneyBent]

Has a team ever fielded a 100% left arm attack?

 

[CTreleven]

That is unusual. I don't collect sporting memorabilia, but I'd have gotten the 4 seamers to autograph something.


I checked out the scorecard. They even opened the bowling with a spinner. Did India have quality seam options at the time?


I thought of another odd combination. Has any FC team ever played two chinaman bowlers? Has there been a test where each team had a specialist chinaman bowler?

 

[The Passenger]

this is a lest of all innigs with four left arm bowlers. no innings with five left arm bowlers.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=innings_bowled;template=results;type=bowling

list of all innings where no right armer was used, but as you can see a right armer took a wicket in the other innings in all bar four of those matches.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=innings_bowled;template=results;type=bowling

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/62474.html - in this match braund is listed as a right armer (didn't take a wicket all match) and Helf is unknown.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/62496.html - hirst and blythe both left armers, but thompson is a right armer. rhodes left armer...

 

[The Passenger]

most wickets in a match by left armers - 28 is the record south africa v england 1889.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ualval1=wickets;template=results;type=bowling

only 15 times have right armers taken all 40 wickets in a test - http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ualval2=wickets;template=results;type=bowling

 

[The Passenger]

it's worth noting these aren't 100% accurate as some bowler styles and arms aren't known.

 

[The Passenger]

list of bowlers with unkonwn arms on cricinfo (suprisingly a lot, and some of them quite modern, including a couple of current bangladeshi's and shane thomson who i'm sure was a right arm medium pacer with new zealand...)

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=balls;size=200;template=results;type=bowling

then you've got guys like this who are list as right arm slow

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/16364.html

they don't show up either fast or spin bowling lists...

 

[CAS79]

this is a lest of all innigs with four left arm bowlers. no innings with five left arm bowlers.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=innings_bowled;template=results;type=bowling

list of all innings where no right armer was used, but as you can see a right armer took a wicket in the other innings in all bar four of those matches.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=innings_bowled;template=results;type=bowling

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/62474.html - in this match braund is listed as a right armer (didn't take a wicket all match) and Helf is unknown.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/62496.html - hirst and blythe both left armers, but thompson is a right armer. rhodes left armer...

Given you've listed Braund Im going assume this is a typo and your referring to Albert Relf.

If so were talking a Right arm seam or cut bowler (In the era of reference their was a difference).

 

[Wallaby]

Through the 1950s and into the 60s perhaps Alf Valentine (Left Arm Orthidox)ad Sonny Ramadihn (Off spin) were a spin bowling combination of cricketing legend. That was before the West Indies pace barrage had started in full flight though.

And in those days, the rules regarding the new ball were very different. It wasn't uncommon for the Windies to take the new ball, try a couple of overs, and then if it wasn't swinging or bouncing, rub it on the ground to get the shine off and give it back to Alf and Sonny.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

list of bowlers with unkonwn arms on cricinfo (suprisingly a lot, and some of them quite modern, including a couple of current bangladeshi's and shane thomson who i'm sure was a right arm medium pacer with new zealand...)

IIRC, Thompson started out as a medium pacer but turned to off spin later in his career after injury.

 

[Kram]

shane thomson who i'm sure was a right arm medium pacer with new zealand...)

Bowled offbreaks in the games I seen him play.

 

[The Passenger]

i'm sure i remember him bowling some sort of medium pace. don't remember him bowling off spin but it certainly could've happened.

his cricinfo profile doesn't list anything.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/newzealand/content/player/38613.html

 

[The Passenger]

just read further on his profile and it says he bowled off spinners. don't know why his actual profile doesn't have it.... pretty strange that one.

EDIT: cricket web has him listed as medium pacer and off spinner...

http://www.cricketweb.net/statsspider/player/201164.php

 

[Freo Big Fella]

I thought of another odd combination. Has any FC team ever played two chinaman bowlers? Has there been a test where each team had a specialist chinaman bowler?

Pretty sure Hogg and Casson must have played together for WA at some point.

Bevan and Paul Adams for tests maybe?

 

[CAS79]

Pretty sure Hogg and Casson must have played together for WA at some point.

Bevan and Paul Adams for tests maybe?

Does Bevan qualify for specialist????

 

[The_Reaper]

Pretty sure Hogg and Casson must have played together for WA at some point.

Bevan and Paul Adams for tests maybe?

Would Katich count?

In game where he has bowled.

 

[The Passenger]

Does Bevan qualify for specialist????

he guinely got picked as a bowling all rounder. batting 7 with healy batting 8.

 

[getthefooty]

this is a pretty strange test.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/62943.html

all six indian bowlers are listed as spinners, and they all got through plenty of overs...

Jeez, 5 test match series drawn 0-0. And we think we have it bad with pitches these days...

 

[The Passenger]

Jeez, 5 test match series drawn 0-0. And we think we have it bad with pitches these days...

don't wanna throw the thread too far off topic but the rate of draws now is far lower than in preceeding decades.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...cade;orderby=start;template=results;type=team

             Mat     W     L    T     D    Draw Rate
1870s    2     3     3     3    0     0    0%
1880s    3    29    25    25    0     4    14%
1890s    3    32    26    26    0     6    19%
1900s    3    41    31    31    0    10    24%
1910s    3    29    25    25    0     4    14%
1920s    4    51    35    35    0    16    31%
1930s    6    89    53    53    0    36    40%
1940s    6    45    23    23    0    22    49%
1950s    7   164   113   113    0    51    31%
1960s    7   186    97    97    1    88    47%
1970s    7   198   114   114    0    84    42%
1980s    7   266   143   143    1   122    46%
1990s    9   347   223   223    0   124    36%
2000s    11  464   350   350    0   114    25%
2010s    10   84    59    59    0    23    27%

lowest since WWI (by a fair distance too) when prior to that it was almost impossible to play for five days cause the wickets were so bad.

 

[Minka Beaver]

don't wanna throw the thread too far off topic but the rate of draws now is far lower than in preceeding decades.

lowest since WWI (by a fair distance too) when prior to that it was almost impossible to play for five days cause the wickets were so bad.

It's also hard to read meaning into the pre-World War Two stats considering Test match length wasn't uniform.