Rate The Recruiting Managers

[- PC -]

For all those having a go at James Fantasia , please list all his selections and rate those players. Then please list at least 6 clubs recruitment managers and rate all their choices with a view to rating JFs position in those 7

The hardest thing when criticising someone is to ignore the selections made at 45-70 that make it and also ignore the ones 1-20 that dont make it.

Its easy to praise the person who took Hodge over Judd(*cheers DaveW and Stiffy) but everyone was singing those players praises.

 

[DaveW]

Who took Judd over Hodge?

 

[Stiffy_18]

This should be interesting

 

[Stiffy_18]

Who took Judd over Hodge?

I think he meant to say Hodge over Judd and the bloke that made the call was John Turnbull who is currently our Victorian recruiting manager.

 

[DaveW]

I think he meant to say Hodge over Judd and the bloke that made the call was John Turnbull who is currently our Victorian recruiting manager.

Why would anyone praise that?

 

[outback jack]

you're not going to get everyone going through the picks, but lets look at those that defend jimmy is mainly cause they have a bias. If you honestly look at the list we are full of HBF's to start with, deficient in key forwards and there is about a 1/3 who are just average players who have no upside and have obvious flaws that will prevent them from becoming quality players. It is hard for him by the pathetic trading we have done, but when he has had first rounders he hasnt made them count either. There are numerous example of this, angwin, reilly etc. I also feel and it is just a hunch that he plays a role in the trading, and if he wanted to he could push much harder for the club to keep useful picks. Infact its his duty to tell the club that he thinks he can get a good player with this pick so dont trade it.

When you look at his record he is average to poor and not much better than that. He has snagged a good player in johncock with a late picks but all clubs do get a gun, we ahvent got any others in this class from him. We’ve had several opportunities to rejuvenate our list with some quality youngsters but either traded the pick or blew the pick. We are in the position we are atm cause of a combination of very poor trading and poor drafting. Jacks solution would be to ask the ppl who traded why this happened and then sack them anyway. I would give Jimmy 2 yrs, maybe three to show what he could do with all the picks (unless a quality young SA wanted to come home) and if he is not particularly better than any other club then he gets the boot. I think there is grounds for his immediate sacking though based on our current list, and would do it immediately if we could get a quality recruiter.


Anyway one that i rate is geelong, and i would go hard to get whoever that is. Basically cause they had very similar picks to what we will have and they have done very well with lat picks like moloney or burn(s) this yr looks a catch.

wcoast i like as well, they have done well with the rookie picks. And they have got some real value with their first and second rounders (even excluding judd).

I don’t rate the saints, even though they got dal santo after us. Getting reiwoldt or kosi or ball is no skill. He hasn’t got much value out of the later picks

And collingwood aren’t too flash either, what I find mildly amusing is how neil blame says each year that they got a top10er or all their picks were first rounders, but they magically don’t seem to come good.

 

[- PC -]

Rate them jack

Do the work or people will think your a blowhard

 

[outback jack]

perthcrow most ppl think this anyway, so i am not bothered. I have done it in the past but i was banned the day i was going to post it. I dont have the time atm, it takes alot of time to do. Its easy to look at it this way in the last 5 yrs write down the quality players we have got, as we have had a range of picks including some earlyish picks in these 5 yrs. There isnt much there is there. This is evident cause our best young talent now is mattner, thompson and johncock and there isnt much else. It doesnt need an indepth study when you look at it that way, we dont have the talent, the team is suffering because of it and if its not players we’ve got, then whats the reason?

 

[jess-jess]

saw the thread title in the forum index and thought i'd give you guys our recruiting manager's (Trevor Woodhouse) picks. His first draft was 1999 (hired after MM left). I won't rate the players, just give you the list

1999

pick 11: Darren Glass
pick 14: Travis Gaspar
pick 16: David Haynes (now @ Geelong)
pick 29: Adam Hunter
pick 41: Kane Munro (delisted)

rookie drafted: Dean Cox

2000

pick 5: Andrew McDougall
pick 18: Daniel Kerr
pick 36: Jeremy Humm
pick 45: Trent Carroll (delisted)

2001

pick 3: Chris Judd
pick 6: Ashley Sampi
pick 22: Mark Seaby
pick 38: Ashley Hansen

rookie drafted; Quintin Lynch

2002

pick 24: Paul Johnson (now @ Melbourne)
pick 37: Brent Staker
pick 52: Adam Selwood

rookie drafted: Mark Nicoski

2003:

pick 11: Beau Waters
pick 20: Sam Butler
pick 26: Daniel McConnell

rookie drafted: Brett Jones

2004

pick 29: Matt Rosa
pick 37: Mark LeCras
pick 44: Mitch Morton (f/s)
pick 57: Brad Smith

(only included the rookie players who went on to be promoted to the main list)

as you can see, every club has good and bad results from their draft picks.

 

[- PC -]

Thanks Jess certainly looks to be some good selections there.

You are right jack it will take time to compile a list so I will do something a little different, and I hope to finish it by tomorrow afternoon.

I will go through those sides you mentioned.Adelaide , Geelong, West Coast, St Kilda and Collingwood and I will list every player on their 2005 list and then spot each player and whether they were drafted or traded . I wont recognise trades for draft choices, they will be included as trades or drafts depending on whether they came in or out.I will then highlight those who played last weekend.

 

[- PC -]

Adelaide

Traded In

Bassett
Begley National 68 2002
Biglands National 36 1999
Bode
Clarke
Ladhams(Essendon List)
Massie
Mcleod
M Stevens
S Stevens
Thompson
Torney
Welsh

Drafted
Bock Pre season 2001
Burton National 16 1998
Doughty???
Edwards Pre season Draft 21 1995
Gibson National 28 2004
Goodwin Pre season 18 1996
Hart
Hentschel Pre season 2001
Hudson National 58 2003
Jericho National 32 2002
Johncock 67 National 2001
Knights National 56 2004
Kreuger National 31 2003
Maric National 40 2004
MattnerPre season 2001
McGregor National 75 1998
Meesen National 8 2004
Perrie National 49 1997
Reilly 12 National 2001
Ricciuto
Rutten[/B] Pre season 2001
Schuback National 59 2001
Shirley National 67 1999 National 56 2002 ?
Skipworth[/B] Rookie list
Smith Rookie list
Van Berlo National 24 2004
Watts National 14 2003

Rookie
Andrews
Griffin
Hinge
Nye

 

[- PC -]

Collingwood

Traded In

Buckley
Caracella
Clement
Holland
Licuria
Morrison
O'Bree
Rocca
Wakelin
Williams
Woewodin

Drafted

Burns
C Cloke
J Cloke
T Cloke
R Cole
Davidson
Davis
Didak
Egan
Fraser
Hall
Iacobucci
Johnson
King
Lockyer
Lokan
Lonie
Maxwell
B Morrison
Prestigiacomo
Richards
Rowe
Rusling
B Shaw
R Shaw
H Shaw
Swan
Tarrant
Walker

Rookie
Davies
Fanning
Leonard
O'Brien

 

[- PC -]

Geelong

Traded In

Harley
Haynes
D Johnson ( Essendon Rookie List)
Kingsley
Kouloritis
Mooney
Ottens
Sanderson

Drafted
G Ablett
N Ablett
Bartel
Blake
Byrnes
Callan
Chambers
Chapman
Corey
Egan
Enright
Gardiner
Hunt
S Johnson
Kelly
King
Ling
Lonergan
Mackie
McCarthy
Milburn
Playfair
Prismall
Rahilly
Riccardi
Rooke
Scarlett
Slade
Spencer
Tenace
Thurley
Wojcinski

Rookies

Batchelor
Buckland
Garth
Sheringham

 

[- PC -]

St Kilda

Traded In

Ackland
Brooks (PA List)
Fiora
Gehrig
Gram
Guerra
Hamill
McGough
Murray
Penny
Powell
Stone
Voss

Drafted

Baker
Ball
Blake
R ClarkeX Clarke
Dal Santo
Ferguson
L Fisher
S Fisher
Goddard
Gwilt
Harvey
Hayes
Hudghton
Jones
Koschitzke
Maguire
MacQualter
Milne
Peckett
Pfitzner
Riewoldt
Schwarze
Thompson

Rookies
McDonnell
Mullins

 

[- PC -]

West Coast

Traded In
Adkins
Chick
Stenglein

Drafted
Banfield
Beeck
Braun
Butler
Cousins
Cox
Embley
Fletcher
Gardiner
Gaspar
Glass
Green
Hansen
Humm
Hunter
B Jones
R Jones
Judd
Kerr
LeCras
Lynch
Matera
McConnell
McDougall
Morton
Nicoski
Rosa
Sampi
Seaby
Selwood
Smith
Staker
Waters
Wirrpunda
Wooden

Rookies
Edwards
Embley
Graham
Sharp
Thornton
Wilkes

 

[- PC -]

Apart from not meaning too much and Jess set it out better. It shows how clubs trade differently. West Coast have only traded for 3 players. seemingly trading for draft choices, and Collingwoods Trades would go close to being their best 11 players???? St Kilda have a lot of trades...more to do with the ability to draft with their high choices and trade of low draft picks for ready made players. Geelong like Adelaide have taken the middle ground with a good mix


I will complete this tomorrow

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

2001

pick 3: Chris Judd
pick 6: Ashley Sampi
pick 22: Mark Seaby
pick 38: Ashley Hansen

rookie drafted; Quintin Lynch

Even though you had early picks, this is a great selection of players. Not 1 dud.

Still reckon McDougall is the most disappointing recent high pick you guys have had.

 

[just maybe]

Even Collingwood appear to have had better recruiting than us.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Here we go again.

 

[Fergus]

The difficult part in rating a recruiting manager is the fact that once a player is drafted / traded to the club, their role is essentially over. The football staff then take over the development of that player.

All draftees have deficiencies, some minor, some more significant - it's then up to the club to work on those deficiencies and grow their strengths.

I think the fact that Adelaide appointed Alan Stewart into a development role as opposed to a recruiting role shows that the club thinks there has a been a problem at the AFC taking draftees and turning them into genuine young AFL players.

 

[macca23]

Even Collingwood appear to have had better recruiting than us.

You must have been on the p*ss when you typed that.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

I'd recruit the West Coast recruiting manager now.

 

[tredders16]

Recruiters as a rule look good if your side is doing well and really bad if your team is losing.
You can only recruit as good a player as your draft picks allow. Such as Brisbane, Port and Essendon, if you canstantly play finals you will obviously be receiving the later pick in the draft. So therefore it is no surprise that these teams are struggling when their best players are injured.
Sometimes a player will sneak through such as Shannon Byrnes from Geelong or as a third round pick but generally the scouts have all the same info available to them.
Players who have a high rating can also be injury prone at the time of drafting (eg. Judd) so you will go for the player that you think will be better for you at the time (eg Hawks with Hodge). It proved to be the incorrect decision with Judd winning the Brownlow last year but who is to say his shoulders won't pop out again and Hodge will become the better player.

Time will tell on all of these, for what its worth Alan Stewart did a magnificent job at the Power from 1996 to 2004 but as Fergus said once he recruited them it is up to the football department and if Port and their football staff had performed better in finals in 01-03 Stewart would have been rated even higher than he is now because his recruited players would have been multiple premiership winners.

 

[Mong]

I'd recruit the West Coast recruiting manager now.

Look how high those picks are compared to the picks we've had over the years. There's a huge difference.

Our two major problems have been trading away first round picks for only average players. See dyertribe's Nicole Bradtke thread for details. And on the rare occasions that we have had really high picks (only 2 top 10 picks EVER) we haven't capitalised.

Our two top 10 draft picks got us Angwin and Meesen. With Meesen it is too early to judge. I still maintain Angwin was a good pick. He was going to be a star. A ruckman/forward was exactly what we needed at the time. Angwin was the type of player who could have solved our key forward problem. In hindsight it is easy, but I have never been critical of that selection. But when you have only one top 10 pick in 14 years, there's a lot riding on getting it right. And that was a very unfortunate situation for us.

We've had a few picks in the teens also, and they haven't worked out. Lance Picioane and Tom Gilligan come to mind.

The thing is every team has plenty of misses with first round picks. Unfortunately, when you only have one first round pick every three years or so, the misses are magnified.

We have been forced to live off lower picks. In that situation you will get a few good ones but many will be alsorans or worse. I think we have done ok with our picks relative to where those picks were in the draft. Where I believe we have failed miserably is trading away first and second round picks for average players. Basically giving up valuable picks to recruit bandaid solutions. Carey, Bode, Fitzgerald, Hewitt, Clarke, Torney, S. Stevens, just to name a few. I'm sure there are a heap more.

 

[crowsarethebest]

Gee, Who ever is the coasters recruiting must be darn good. 2001 was the best year for them.