Autopsy Rd 2 Blues suffer bitterly disappointing loss to arch rival

Who played well for Carlton in Round 2?


  • Total voters
    244
  • Poll closed .

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katmanblue

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Nov 27, 2016
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Oh get a f*cking grip


Murphy has never been a good player? Oh get a grip and calm down. Fine to be passionate and angry after Thursday night. But don’t lose credibility saying crazy stuff.
Murph is certainly no where near his best but come on! Murph has been a great player for us.
I agree and hope SPS is moved away from the backline
Murphy was a great player for stretches.

Can't say the same for his leadership.
 

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TeeJay Blue

Premiership Player
Feb 11, 2015
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How are the stat points determined, and what is the rationale for awarding the top player twice that of the next?
Stat points indicate contribution around play. They are primarily determined by the main stats such as kicks, handballs, marks, tackles, goals, etc.
Most of the time, the scores are merely based on the final fantasy scores.

The top scorer with the greatest stats or who contributes most around play recives 20 (twice the amount as the next best).

This isn't entirely a great system to rate players as it doesn't regard efficiency or the one percenters behind play. Deep forwards and deep defenders will often not end up with great scores here. But I persist with this system I created as I personally am always intrigued by who potentially contributes the most around play throughout the year. I too like to see how much the results differ from more accurate means of rating each player's season.

So don't take this too seriously as it won't mean a lot at most times. Besides, I have decided to add my personal votes as well so I can given more credit to key position players as well as give attention to the efficiency of ball use.
 

RiCHii

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Oct 18, 2005
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I've had many days to stew over this. Was no point posting on Thursday night where I was steaming mad.

Our midfield was smacked around, Pittonet not giving first use to the midfield is hurting us - We are desperately crying out for TDK to return, the days of a big lumbering ruckman are over. However, it was not all Pits fault. Our midfield/coaching is lacking some serious leadership. How were the likes of Sidebottom and Crisp allowed to waltz out of the midfield with 0 pressure? Happened far too often, we all know how damaging Sidebottom is and can be, we have no respect to him and he hurt us big time.

Plowman was horrible, but a week is a long time in football, just last week we were singing his praises. Had a bad game, but they happen. He is not an A grader and we know that. We are probably lucky that Elliot went down with an injury - because he was giving Plow an absolute bath early days. It's really up to the coaching staff to swing some changes, this did not happen. But nevertheless he is holding the spot until Marchbank is 100% fit and ready to go, I doubt well see much of Plow after this.

As well as Plow, we had far too many passengers - Murphy - Offers 0 forward pressure, wouldn't mind seeing Betts replace him.
Setterfield - Went from having a great year last year to not being able to find it at all.
Jones - Thought he looked lost.
Cripps - WTH is going on with this bloke?
Levi - Make the move, this bloke doesn't look fit, has offered absolutely nothing and very much a liability for the first 2 weeks.

Changes need to be made if were to make the next step, Our ruck and midfield group need a real shake up. Lets hope we see some changes in RD3.
 

RedFury

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Jul 12, 2010
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What struck me as evident watching live on Thursday night was just how much intensity and desire for the contest some of our imports had vs our developed players. Martin, Williams, Fogarty, Saad all looked like they wanted the ball when a number of our other players really didn't.

Now obviously a large part of this is because we knew they were guns that played to a high standard and that's why we got them in, but honestly the effort they gave needs to be pointed out to the whole group as the standard of effort that all players need to give.

Their efforts made some of our other players look downright embarassing.
 

FRUMPY

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What struck me as evident watching live on Thursday night was just how much intensity and desire for the contest some of our imports had vs our developed players. Martin, Williams, Fogarty, Saad all looked like they wanted the ball when a number of our other players really didn't.

Now obviously a large part of this is because we knew they were guns that played to a high standard and that's why we got them in, but honestly the effort they gave needs to be pointed out to the whole group as the standard of effort that all players need to give.

Their efforts made some of our other players look downright embarassing.
Give it time, they haven't been 'carltonised' yet....

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk
 

F_therest

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Oct 3, 2013
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What struck me as evident watching live on Thursday night was just how much intensity and desire for the contest some of our imports had vs our developed players. Martin, Williams, Fogarty, Saad all looked like they wanted the ball when a number of our other players really didn't.

Now obviously a large part of this is because we knew they were guns that played to a high standard and that's why we got them in, but honestly the effort they gave needs to be pointed out to the whole group as the standard of effort that all players need to give.

Their efforts made some of our other players look downright embarassing.
Thought our biggest issue was the inability of our midfield to win the ball with any consistency and when Collingwood mids won the ball, we weren't able to impact the disposal and hold them up or cause a turnover.

Particularly in the first half, as soon as Collingwood mids won it, it basically led to a shot on goal. Plowman was poor, but a lot of goals kicked on him were lace out passes to a leading forward in an open F50...basically impossible to stop and it goes back to our midfield not putting enough pressure on the ball carrier.

Same thing happened against Richmond. Our mids need a kick up the arse...need more intensity and in terms of personnel, need more players with speed.
Cripps/Dow/Setterfield is a pretty pedestrian midfield speed wise and the game is so quick right now.
 

JustaBattler

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Not sure if this has been posted. Some of our defensive failures from round 2.

It is a very good set of examples explaining the matchup and player awarenes issues that Collingwood exploited.

Dow standing still whilst his direct opponent is 5 meters away and engaged in a contest - Fogarty leaving his man because he can already see the danger of Adams unmarked - basic set up and player awareness issues compound every time.

Moore getting loose - dont tell me Murphy was the right match up? Levi on Moore- whilst rucking and also immobile? That is MC selection gone wrong.

Setterfield absolutely NOWHERE for most of the match I don't think he knows how to play wing and that is not a knock on him either.

None of this stuff is major or unfixable - and probably doesn't show up against less well drilled and experienced opposition.
 

ITCHY EYEBALLS

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Sep 16, 2010
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Not sure if this has been posted. Some of our defensive failures from round 2.

Some of that footage is just appalling.
Players jogging along without a care in the world, allowing their opponents to just do whatever they want.
Sure our structures may be partially to blame, but the number 1 attribute required is to have the will to compete and take some responsibility (as shown by Fisher in that vid).
Uncompetitive players really piss me off.
 

JustaBattler

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Some of that footage is just appalling.
Players jogging along without a care in the world, allowing their opponents to just do whatever they want.
Sure our structures may be partially to blame, but the number 1 attribute required is to have the will to compete and take some responsibility (as shown by Fisher in that vid).
Uncompetitive players really piss me off.
Midfielders and wingmen should always be one on one when they are defending and beating their opponent with run when not. Parking in unaccountable space ( fake zoning) is is where you allow other teams to create overlap. HBF allowing their opponents to run and create overlap through midfield is murder for team mates- same as HFF allowing their HBF opponents to become extra mids.

Teague is right to be pissed off with lack of effort as far as accountability one on one goes.

Fixable though - easy.
 

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Some of that footage is just appalling.
Players jogging along without a care in the world, allowing their opponents to just do whatever they want.
Sure our structures may be partially to blame, but the number 1 attribute required is to have the will to compete and take some responsibility (as shown by Fisher in that vid).
Uncompetitive players really piss me off.
Yes, so that's on the players firstly, but after the fact, it's on the coach to do something about that player.

Makes you wonder if the coaches see this when it is happening or have to rely on footage afterwards to realise. There are enough eyes in the box to recognise why a player is free and send a message right away.

When people talk about being respectful to club champions, what they are referring to is not using their age against them and allowing them to go out on their terms of their form warrants. They don't mean cruising along to a milestone as an untouchable.

If you had a choice of Simpson or Murphy playing in 2021, I feel like everyone would choose Simmo, because he always gave his all and he was disciplined.

I was pleased to see Fish doing the right thing there. It makes me wonder if other players still don't get how to roll on to the more dangerous opponent. If Fish has to leave one guy to get the lone runner, then where is that runner's opponent and why aren't they covering Fish's opponent why he is covering for them?
 

ITCHY EYEBALLS

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Yes, so that's on the players firstly, but after the fact, it's on the coach to do something about that player.

Makes you wonder if the coaches see this when it is happening or have to rely on footage afterwards to realise. There are enough eyes in the box to recognise why a player is free and send a message right away.

When people talk about being respectful to club champions, what they are referring to is not using their age against them and allowing them to go out on their terms of their form warrants. They don't mean cruising along to a milestone as an untouchable.

If you had a choice of Simpson or Murphy playing in 2021, I feel like everyone would choose Simmo, because he always gave his all and he was disciplined.

I was pleased to see Fish doing the right thing there. It makes me wonder if other players still don't get how to roll on to the more dangerous opponent. If Fish has to leave one guy to get the lone runner, then where is that runner's opponent and why aren't they covering Fish's opponent why he is covering for them?
Simmo 100%
 

ITCHY EYEBALLS

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Midfielders and wingmen should always be one on one when they are defending and beating their opponent with run when not. Parking in unaccountable space ( fake zoning) is is where you allow other teams to create overlap. HBF allowing their opponents to run and create overlap through midfield is murder for team mates- same as HFF allowing their HBF opponents to become extra mids.

Teague is right to be pissed off with lack of effort as far as accountability one on one goes.

Fixable though - easy.
If you mean easily fixable by dropping repeat offenders, I agree.
Not as easy to turn uncompetitive snowflakes into competitive beasts though.
 

JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
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If you mean easily fixable by dropping repeat offenders, I agree.
Not as easy to turn uncompetitive snowflakes into competitive beasts though.
When I look at the actuall games and look for bad stuff in review - I see much more evidence of lack of awareness than lack of effort. I think Carlton perhaps has gone a tad too far with regards to asking players to play away from positions and rotate. If we look at better more established teams and their systems- only their very best players are moved around the chess board into different positions at different times.

Injury issues have also forced player selection to an extent.

I am scratching my head over a few player selections though - maybe they were calculated gambles.

Setterfield as a wingman didnt work last year- why will it work this year?
An unfit Levi asked to play KPF and chop out ruckman - produced two massive weak spots - exploited by Collingwood on rebound and around ball ups. An unfit Levi is even clumsier than a a normally clumsy Levi.
If Moore was more closely marked on rebound most of their exits are stopped. Why wasnt Harry running with Moore in attack AND defence? Why was Moore able to go one on one against Harry - but Harry not responsible for covering Moore ?

If you look at the scoring Collimngwood were able to achieve- most of it was direct chest marks to leading forwards - why was there no one filling in the center space stopping the low bullet passes? Apart from William's kick to Levi ( who OOB) from directly in front - our other entries were mostly parabolic and telegrphed - why nto hold up play until a forward gets to clear space? The forward line looke dmostly dysfucntional all game - fitness with talls and lack of third tall....

Lots of questions - but no doubt in my mind- Buckley outcoached Teague and his crew - apart fom 3rd quarter- and won the game through COX in the last. We were in this game all game but basically chasing tail and leads created by Buckley moving strategy as Teague caught up.

Frustrating but i look forward to net meeting- with more of our best players on field - hard to play against finals sides without our preferrd three tall set up.
 

TwiggleyFanClub

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Oct 10, 2008
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Plowman isnt a bottom 8 player in this carlton side
If Teague keeps playing him the way he did last Thursday with the new style of game the man on the mark rule has led to, he will be.
His lack of pace was laid bare for everyone to see, and opposition coaches will do this to him time and time again, unless Teague does something about it.
 

ShanDog

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When I look at the actuall games and look for bad stuff in review - I see much more evidence of lack of awareness than lack of effort. I think Carlton perhaps has gone a tad too far with regards to asking players to play away from positions and rotate. If we look at better more established teams and their systems- only their very best players are moved around the chess board into different positions at different times.
I agree 👍

If we aren't playing guys in their obviously preferred position, we aren't setting them (or the team) up for success. Put players in their right spot and let them get better at it. And if they can't, then recruit someone to fill that spot.

If you look at the scoring Collimngwood were able to achieve- most of it was direct chest marks to leading forwards - why was there no one filling in the center space stopping the low bullet passes? Apart from William's kick to Levi ( who OOB) from directly in front - our other entries were mostly parabolic and telegrphed - why nto hold up play until a forward gets to clear space? The forward line looke dmostly dysfucntional all game - fitness with talls and lack of third tall....
Filling the space is hard to do with a quick game like it has been, and it's double-tough when it's when defending a clean clearance from a centre bounce. That's been a huge difference between us and the opposition so far this season. We get far fewer clean takeaways.
 

Coops93

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Setterfield as a wingman didnt work last year- why will it work this year?
An unfit Levi asked to play KPF and chop out ruckman - produced two massive weak spots - exploited by Collingwood on rebound and around ball ups. An unfit Levi is even clumsier than a a normally clumsy Levi.
If Moore was more closely marked on rebound most of their exits are stopped. Why wasnt Harry running with Moore in attack AND defence? Why was Moore able to go one on one against Harry - but Harry not responsible for covering Moore ?
Setterfield on the wing is dumb. As is SPS in the backline. I think there's something to playing so many guys out of position and being surprised at the poor results. Yes being versatile is a positive, but if you make the AFL as a mid you shouldn't be expected to play wing or half forward flank because versatile. We seem to do that a lot.

It's not really in McKays wheelhouse. He did chase a couple of times I noticed, more than he normally would. It's also worth noting that he did kick 4 goals. Not to say he won the match-up, Moore was still influential, but so was McKay.

I think we missed Silvagni this game personally. His forward pressure was needed against this fast rebounding defense.
 

Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods

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If Teague keeps playing him the way he did last Thursday with the new style of game the man on the mark rule has led to, he will be.
His lack of pace was laid bare for everyone to see, and opposition coaches will do this to him time and time again, unless Teague does something about it.
Regardless of individual opinions on him, he has been exposed as an easy avenue for scoring. It's pretty hard to deny that.
 

Stamos

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Regardless of individual opinions on him, he has been exposed as an easy avenue for scoring. It's pretty hard to deny that.
And yet he's cut up many of the best small forwards in the competition.
He had a bad night on Thursday, but a lot of the blame can go to his team mates.
 

Accidental genius

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Apr 4, 2018
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Not sure if this has been posted. Some of our defensive failures from round 2.

great examples. love to be a fly on the wall when the coaches/players are going through these examples. what could martins excuse be for letting quaynor drift out of our f50 and murph just jogging around with no intent to pressure (just going through the motions)?
 

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