Preview Rd 20, 2013 - Richmond v Brisbane Lions

[Requiem]

Unfortunately when it comes to key forwards we have little in the way of quality. When the selectors are in a position where they have to pick the least worst option they tend to get criticised no matter who they pick. I'm not suprised by the selection of Martin. Even though Martin is fairly unco in AFL terms, he plays like a big man and shows urgency. And Lisle (who probably won't get a 2nd contract) is out of favour because he lacks these qualities. Martin also gives the team more flexibility, allowing Leuenberger to spend more time forward.

On surface value it would seem Karnezis is deserving of a spot in the 22. I don't neccessarily buy into any of the conclusions that are being drawn, but I can't help wondering what the coaches' thought process is. Would love to hear an honest explanation, but that probably won't eventuate (at least while we're in season), so all we can do is speculate.

A very precise and well summed up post.

In regards to the whole Patty K scenario, I guess all we can do is have faith in the judgement of the coaching staff. The lack of immediate disclosure/transparency regarding the issue of his selection, but also others at times (IMO Callum Bartlett for example) in accordance with 'reported' solid ressies form sometimes leaves me wondering wether they are getting the short end of the stick more often than not? The whole process I find is sometimes frustrating. However; I ask myself "Am I in a position to be demanding answers and/or am I just be reading into this too much?"

Confused is one of many things that come to mind...

 

[Caiphus]

How much has Staker 's set shot kicking improved this year? I'm happy with him getting a shot as our go to man in the forward line. With his improved upper body strength and his athleticism I think he could have a huge game.

I hope that bringing Lester in and Bewick out doesn't mean that rocky is going to spend significant amounts of time forward.

 

[iBeng]

How much has Staker 's set shot kicking improved this year? I'm happy with him getting a shot as our go to man in the forward line. With his improved upper body strength and his athleticism I think he could have a huge game.

I hope that bringing Lester in and Bewick out doesn't mean that rocky is going to spend significant amounts of time forward.

Would assume Jesse will take Rocks usually spot, with Zorko, Green and Hanley also in that forward 50 for significant amounts of time.

Rocklobster may rest there though.

 

[Worm4]

sorry to drop in fellas, I have a question for somebody that may be able to answer.
Lions training at 4pm at Wesley College st kilda road this arvo. Still on ?
A friend of mine had flown in from Perth mad Lions supporter and wants to attend.

 

[josephs_79]

Not happy about Bewick thats for sure. Didn't think he did much wrong to get dropped. As I said about JOB wasn't overly happy with his game but can potentially see why he was left in after reading the article on him and being out for so long etc etc. Still don't think he had a fantastic game, thought it was fairly ordinary but that could of been down to rust. I know some don't agree with that observation on him but what it is how I saw it

I have been reading through the arguments of Lisle V Martin. I am actually now split on this. I understand both sides of the arguments and can see why he was picked. Do I agree with Martin's selection? Not really. Does he warrant his selection? Yes based on some of the arguments put forward by some of the posters here.

Below is not a Lisle V Martin argument. It is a Why do we have so much problems with our forwards and selection around these..... (TL: DR - Our up and coming fwds don't get given enough time to cement themselves or learn. Our reserve level isn't going to teach them and they need more time in Seniors to gain that experience and learning ability that J. Reiwoldt or T. Hawkins got.)

I think the Lions biggest problem over the years (and why some posters are frustrated by players like Lisle or Acorn in the past being left out) is our selectors don't give our KPF a decent enough chance to grow and become what we need. Our delivery from our Mid's to our forward line has not been the greatest this year. Better than years past but not as great as it should be. As the year has gone on it has been better by actually hitting up leads instead of bombing in but still not as good as it should be. Unfortunately our KPF (Martin, Lisle, Acorn) have suffered from it due to looking worse than what they are because the delivery has not been great. As a result our fwds constantly get dropped and then our mids don't have confidence in these players because they are in and out so often they prolly lose confidence in them because the coaches don't have faith in them. So it is a double edged sword.

With our rotating door on selections with this replacement Fwd it has been hard to cement a player in this spot and make them grow and become what we need them too be (Lisle or Acorn). KPF take time to develop and take time to grow and take time to become champion forwards. Look at Tom Hawkins(Geel), a few years ago everyone was screaming for his head but Geelong persisted with him and look at what he has turned into. To a lesser extent the same could be said for J. Riewoldt as well.

Our 3 tall fwds need the same time. Unfortunately our Reserve level is not as high as the Vic and our fwds don't learn that much from there(As we have seen with Acorn or Lisle (Martin to a lesser extent) dominating the reserves and then comes into the AFL and looks like a deer in headlights at times). Therefore our fwds need more time to develop and more time at AFL level to learn and grow and should of been given this time over the last few years instead of trying to find quick fixes and this is where I think our biggest problem lies.

I for one am frustrated our Fwds are not given time to be what they can be or are held to a standard that they are just not able to reach at this stage or will at any. Unfortunately they suffer from being compared to Browny and what he did and achieved at a young age and what he grew into and has become. He is a once in a 25 year player and I don't think we will see another like him and our current crop is being compared to him and it's not fair. He is excellence personified and none of any players will ever become him.

At the time when Lisle was dropped he was really starting to gain momentum and felt that he was really starting to get the confidence some guys were talking about that he needed. He may have been pushed off easy but that is just gaining bulk over the pre-season and takes time to learn at Seniors (and not reserves) how to hold your ground but overall he was becoming an impact, his hands were good with handball and at ground level and was starting to clunk marks or crash packs to an extent. His rucking wasn't the greatest but that is just learning a new role as well so time is needed.

Sorry if this is in the wrong place to post all of it but I am just frustrated about it as our selectors and coaches I feel don't give our potential fwds time to become as good as they can be and dont give them the time at Seniors.

 

[Ironmonger]

Random question:

With Black, Brown and McGrath all out, is this the first game we've played since 2001 without any alumni from the three premierships?

 

[DrMike]

Tough game this week. Richmond have won the last four matches. Hopefully the Lions can turn things around for Merrett who plays his 150th. If we stay with them the whole game we should be able to win. Richmond however are the worst tackling side this season.

Just for clarity in case someone else hasn't said it yet. Richmond have made the least amount of tackles this season, there's a very big difference. We're one of the best sides at obtaining the ball from stoppages, shown by Maric being one of the best hit out to advantage rucks this year and being number 1 in the comp for scores from stoppages. This means we're more likely to get the ball from a stoppage and the other team is in a better position to lay a tackle. It comes back to the saying "you can't tackle yourself". We're also 5th in the comp this year for contested ball differential. Raw numbers only mean so much.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Would want to lift the standard of the past three weeks immensely to be competitive, here.

Either that or hope the Tiges are on a massive let-down.

 

[Fatcat08]

sorry to drop in fellas, I have a question for somebody that may be able to answer.
Lions training at 4pm at Wesley College st kilda road this arvo. Still on ?
A friend of mine had flown in from Perth mad Lions supporter and wants to attend.

At this stage the website still says yes and they usually train there when they come to melb so don't see any reason why it wouldn't be.

 

[Haso]

Random question:

With Black, Brown and McGrath all out, is this the first game we've played since 2001 without any alumni from the three premierships?

Think so. Unless you count the majority of last week's match after Brown went down.

 

[DrMike]

To follow on from your other thread. Interesting that we selected Astbury. My guess is we'll put him on your resting ruck (or drop him last minute). Chaplin will go to your key forward, Rance to take second.

Is it just me or does your back line not look that tall?

 

[jackess]

To follow on from your other thread. Interesting that we selected Astbury. My guess is we'll put him on your resting ruck (or drop him last minute). Chaplin will go to your key forward, Rance to take second.

Is it just me or does your back line not look that tall?

Clarke, Maguire and Patfull can all play tall plus Merrett and Staker could go back and even Lester could go to Mcguane.

 

[Jorgo]

Fantastic preview.

Woeful thread.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Is it just me or does your back line not look that tall?

Clarke is 195, Maguire 192 and Patfull 190cm. Patfull plays much taller and Maguire does to a certain extent.

 

[Haso]

Fantastic preview.

Woeful thread.

I haven't used enough GIFs, sorry.

 

[Lionheart182]

Shane Edwards is out, replaced by Nahas. Bit of a meh change from my point of view knowing next to nothing about either of them.

Link

 

[Harris Specter]

Shane Edwards is out, replaced by Nahas. Bit of a meh change from my point of view knowing next to nothing about either of them.

Link

According to some Tiger fans, it's a huge out, especially considering the spud that Nahas is.
Now that I've said it, he'll come out and kick 5 goals.

 

[Worm4]

At this stage the website still says yes and they usually train there when they come to melb so don't see any reason why it wouldn't be.

thank you for the reply.
Going to game tomorrow as an impartial. well maybe not so impartial.... go Lions !

 

[Grimreepah]

As Last of The Roys alluded to, Bewick being dropped was the biggest surprise. Whilst his form throughout the year has not demanded a spot in the seniors, I thought he had a good game against the Saints. Maybe it was a matter of match ups, with the coaches wanting Lester to go to a specific player, or play a specific role.

 

[Haso]

Lester to Martin?

 

[Lionheart182]

Very interesting to see how we compare with the Tiges across season averages. Must admit I thought we'd be much further behind.

Link

 

[Grimreepah]

Nahas is the little bloke that always destroys us.

 

[DrMike]

Clarke, Maguire and Patfull can all play tall plus Merrett and Staker could go back and even Lester could go to Mcguane.

Clarke is 195, Maguire 192 and Patfull 190cm. Patfull plays much taller and Maguire does to a certain extent.

Thanks for the reply.

Vickery is 200 (Maric 200), Riewoldt 195, McGuane 192
So I assume they'll match up in the same order or will Clarke go to Riewoldt?

 

[Fatcat08]

Lester to Martin?

Don't mind that matchup. Two strong bodies and lester can still go with him up forward.

 

[DrMike]

According to some Tiger fans, it's a huge out, especially considering the spud that Nahas is.
Now that I've said it, he'll come out and kick 5 goals.

Shane Edwards is one of our best clearance players this year, second behind Cotchin. Although he's also second in clangers . Nahas can't really play midfield but we might end up moving him into a HBF position (which is where he's been playing in VFL) against a small and move Ellis up the ground with more midfield time. Assumption is we're bringing him in so you guys get to see him play and see if you're interested.