Review Rd 3 - Coll vs Carlton - Postmatch discussion *It's time to vent*

[TradeDraft]

Lets be serious here for a minute.


Carlton didnt let you blokes play well. You were smashed BEFORE Ball and Reid went off.

1) Pendles isnt injured, he got a number done on him by Carrots.
2) Swan is Fat and Lazy. He needs to sort his head out.
3) Maxwell was underdone
4) You got ROFLSTOMPED in the ruck by Kreuzer who is a #1 pick and a GUN.
5) Judd and Murph are in Career best form as is Betts.
6) Henderson is very under rated and did very well on cloke who for a man who can take a mark with his eyes closed and both hand tied behind his back looked like he needed 7 gloves last night.
7) Dawes needs to learn to mark
8) Daisy is too reliant on others inside to be playing well for him to fire.
9) Jolly GAWN not good enough now at this level against quality rucks
10) You cant blame Mick/Buck changeover = Geelong? Adelaide?
11) Carlton are also not full strength yet. (Obv the Pies have more out)

I could continue........


You guys got beaten by a much better team last night.

I wouldnt be worried too much and calling for heads quite yet. You are used to winning so much being flogged hurts and especially by Carlton but last night was more of Carlton making you look bad than you being actually bad.

There are obv a few concerns with some of your players but I would be more looking at their performances against port or Essendon to evaluate how they are.

Your 1st Sentence is True that you came out to play and we did not but they you started to be a Troll

 

[tiezto]

Your 1st Sentence is True that you came out to play and we did not but they you started to be a Troll

Then put your responses against my statements please? Tell me i am wrong

 

[foxtel]

The loss of Ball and Reid moving forwards was for me the biggest downer by a mile. The likely loss of Ball for possibly 6-10 weeks, being our most tenacious inside mid will not easily be covered - Blair and Wellers will have to put their hand up in that 1st extractor role.

Reid's loss is probably more painful - i hope Nate Brown will be ready soon.

As for the game Carlton simply out played us in every facet - they were really out to make a statement - the disappointing thing was that we looked a sorry unit by the time it was 3 goals to 1 behind and helpless to stop the the carnage.

I hate singling out individuals or the coach 'cause really it isnt helpful - as a Club we need to cop it on the chin then look hard into rectifying what we couldnt do last night.

Another thing too is that yeah we missed the likes of Taz, Dids and Johnno - and that is a worry really - most of these guys are very near the end of their careers. We could well only be a mid range team this year - it's up to the boys to rally and make the year work.

Very well said, I also thought that our kicking in general play was very ordinary. We couldn't hit a target and that is something that we have been better than the opposition over the last couple of years, Bucks loves players that kick the ball well and at the moment we couldn't hit the side of a barn.!

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Then put your responses against my statements please? Tell me i am wrong

I have no problem with your analysis. You said no more than the majority of Collingwood posters have already said. Carlton absolutely annihilated us and too many players seemed incapable of offering resistance to them.

 

[Babylove]

Lets be serious here for a minute.


Carlton didnt let you blokes play well. You were smashed BEFORE Ball and Reid went off.

1) Pendles isnt injured, he got a number done on him by Carrots.
2) Swan is Fat and Lazy. He needs to sort his head out.
3) Maxwell was underdone
4) You got ROFLSTOMPED in the ruck by Kreuzer who is a #1 pick and a GUN.
5) Judd and Murph are in Career best form as is Betts.
6) Henderson is very under rated and did very well on cloke who for a man who can take a mark with his eyes closed and both hand tied behind his back looked like he needed 7 gloves last night.
7) Dawes needs to learn to mark
8) Daisy is too reliant on others inside to be playing well for him to fire.
9) Jolly GAWN not good enough now at this level against quality rucks
10) You cant blame Mick/Buck changeover = Geelong? Adelaide?
11) Carlton are also not full strength yet. (Obv the Pies have more out)

I could continue........


You guys got beaten by a much better team last night.

I wouldnt be worried too much and calling for heads quite yet. You are used to winning so much being flogged hurts and especially by Carlton but last night was more of Carlton making you look bad than you being actually bad.

There are obv a few concerns with some of your players but I would be more looking at their performances against port or Essendon to evaluate how they are.

I do agree that Carlton was the best team on the night. as to you specific points:

1) I agree Carazzo played very well last night, however I also think Pendles was having an off night (not injured, just off). I say that because I have seen tags get the upper hand on him before but his still had his 20 - 25 possessions and had an impact. Also he wasn't getting chop out from his team mates, nor were his teammates helping him out by picking up the slack.
2) I do agree that Swan hasn't been having the impact he had last year. I can't explain it. He's still getting the ball, but he isn't using it as well or working as hard when he doesn't have the ball.
3) Maxwell was one of our best players last night. He might have been a little underdone but that wasn't really a factor in the result.
4) We got smacked in the ruck, you only have to see the stats on that one.
5) Murphy and Betts are in career best form, wouldn't say Judd is, but he's a legend so that's not an insult there. We do still have the players to nullify them (either stop them or hurt them the other way) if they are playing well so again if we were on this isn't much of an excuse for us.
6) Henderson played well, but Cloke was also hurt by the delivery and the lack of opportunities in the forward line. If Cloke was getting good supply with the ball kicked to his advantage where he could get Henderson one-on-one in strength contest, Cloke would have had the better of that one.
7) Dawes does need to improve his marking, but you can't doubt his endeavour. Was one of our leading tacklers last night and it was funny to watch him out sprint Marty Clarke
8) Daisy is down on form, but that has more to do with work rate than a reliance on others. There is some of that, even Judd couldn't stop Carlton being a bottom side until your younger players like Murphy & Carazzo stepped up to help him. Daisy needs to work harder for longer.
9) I don't think Jolly's gone as you say. He got smashed last night, but to be honest, I don't think he plays well when he has to share the ruck. I didn't follow him much when he was at the Swans, but since he got to Collingwood, whenever we played him with Fraser or Wood (genuine ruckman) his form has dropped off, where as when he played with Brown or Dawes giving him a chop out, but playing 80-90% ruck time he seems to play much better. Perhaps, until Ceglar & Witts are ready, we need to stick with Dawes, even though he's not that great at the ruck work, to benefit Jolly?
10) Agree we can't blame the coaching changeover. It looks like the game plan has changed slightly, but it's the work rate of the players that is the problem.
11) Carlton may be missing one or two players, but Collingwood are missing most of it's back line, half it's forwarline and several midfield rotations. I would say we'd be missing about a third of our first choice team, so I'm not sure why you even brought this up as a point.

Carlton were great last night I will give credit where credit is due, but Collingwood were also a far way off of our best and work rate was woeful, for an example we had less than 50 tackles for the game, which is completely unexceptable. Hopefully it was just an off night.

I do agree that magpie supporters should not be panicking, the season is a marathon not a sprint and I would rather have these performances and injury concerns now than at the business end of the season.

 

[Bay Pie]

Then put your responses against my statements please? Tell me i am wrong

If carlton was not at full strength, please name who is missing from that group along with who they will replace.

I presume Walker is deemed best 22. Who does he replace in your forwardline?

No doubt carlton wanted to prove a point and we are undermanned, underdone, coming of a shorter break and had players injured the game. We are building into our season and carlton are peaking now. Peaking now didn't help us last year. It actually burnt us out.

carlton played very well. They are very good at running forward of the ball once they win the clearance. We got beaten in the clearances so it helped those forward runners and cherrypickers.

 

[davywap]

You guys got beaten by a much better team last night.

Speaking of last night specifically, yes. But I'm pretty sure Carlton haven't gone from a 4-5 goal worse to a 10-goal better team than the Pies in one pre-season.

Carlton at the peak > Collingwood way below theirs.

 

[tiezto]

If carlton was not at full strength, please name who is missing from that group along with who they will replace.

I presume Walker is deemed best 22. Who does he replace in your forwardline?

No doubt carlton wanted to prove a point and we are undermanned, underdone, coming of a shorter break and had players injured the game. We are building into our season and carlton are peaking now. Peaking now didn't help us last year. It actually burnt us out.

carlton played very well. They are very good at running forward of the ball once they win the clearance. We got beaten in the clearances so it helped those forward runners and cherrypickers.

Walker would replace either Bower or Lucas I would expect. Bower was used in the Forward line last night as was lucas.

Warnock has been our #1 ruckman and would replace Hampson but saying that Hampson is playing quite well.

Duigan and also jamison have not played any games his year (Like Wood and your captain) and are still a bit underdone.


According to a previous recent post QUOTE "Collingwood are missing most of it's back line, half it's forwarline and several midfield rotations. I would say we'd be missing about a third of our first choice team"

LOL - cmon lets be serious here.

 

[tiezto]

Speaking of last night specifically, yes. But I'm pretty sure Carlton haven't gone from a 4-5 goal worse to a 10-goal better team than the Pies in one pre-season.

Carlton at the peak > Collingwood way below theirs.

According to our pre-season we wouldnt make the 8 a lot of people thought.

 

[Jack_the_Ninja]

Flags aren't won this early in the season boys so I wouldn't be too worried, I admit though I only have one Pies player in my SC team for the very reason that Bucks is now senior coach.

Very rarely can a new coach just go "Bang" and be up the top instantly.

 

[SuperSub17]

I agree with Carlton guy. We weren't as bad as everyone thinks, just before half time they got two goals against the run of play. Even so, without injuries we would have been right in the game at half time. It was really only the thrid qtr that the injuries caught up and they blitzed us. Whenever they went inside 50 in that qtr they looked dangerous, but were also somewhat fortunate that the ball popped out the back a few times. Harry was not goal side of Betts a few times and paid the price, esp. in 1st and 3rd qtrs.

Those saying Reid is having a bad year have the memory of a goldfish. He was BOG last week and tore Jack Riewoldt to shreds. Seriously.

Those saying it was the worst performance of the last 10 years need to get their head examined. I'll throw a few out there:
Round 7 2009 - lost to St Kilda on the Monday night by 88 pts
Round 8 2009 - lost to the scum by 50+ and were worse than last night, at no stage were we close at all, they weren't as good as last night but we were awful
Round 17 2008 - Lost to Essendon by 48 points after beating them by 73 on Anzac Day
Round 7 2008 - lost to tha Hawks by 60+ and did not fire a shot
Round 19 2007 - we made the prelim that year but lost to the Tigers, who came last
Round 17 2007 - Brisbane didn't even make finals but beat us at the G by 90+

Even PF 2009 - lost by 73 after being less than 2 goals down at halftime

Important to note that after losing to the scum in 09 we beat them by 50+ just 9 weeks later, holding them to 4 goals for the whole night. We were 3-5 after the first game, but then won 11 of our next 12 and made the prelim.

Also interesting stat about 2002, don't remember that

Those writing off the year already are not true Collingwood supporters.

 

[SuperSub17]

Also, Jolly was one of our best in round 1, those saying he is finished have seriously short memories.

 

[Bay Pie]

Walker would replace either Bower or Lucas I would expect. Bower was used in the Forward line last night as was lucas.

Warnock has been our #1 ruckman and would replace Hampson but saying that Hampson is playing quite well.

Duigan and also jamison have not played any games his year (Like Wood and your captain) and are still a bit underdone.


According to a previous recent post QUOTE "Collingwood are missing most of it's back line, half it's forwarline and several midfield rotations. I would say we'd be missing about a third of our first choice team"

LOL - cmon lets be serious here.

So basically you are at full strength except for Walker in for Bower/Lucas with Duigan and Jamison underdone. That is as close to full strength as your going to get for the year rooster without an unbelievably lucky run with injuries.

Hampson did very well in his role and will provide far more in that role then Warnock. Warnock is a 1st ruck of nothing. No help there.

Duigan & Jamison had played VFL games, same has the underdone Beams, Wood & Wellingham.

Our back 6 from last year were missing Tarrant, Johnson & Reid for 3 and a bit quarters.

Tarrant, Johnson & Didak are either injured or just getting some run under their belt in the VFL and they are all best 22 players. You could probably throw Nate Brown in there but I wont because Keefe was very good last night and Nate Browns influenence may not have been a significant upgrade. Reid and Ball getting injured contributed to the end scoreline.

Beams, Wellingham, Maxwell & Wood all underdone.

That's almost half a team either out or no where near their best. If we get all these guys back and in match condition by midyear and we get beaten then, that's when I'll concede that this year may not be our year.

 

[Babylove]

Walker would replace either Bower or Lucas I would expect. Bower was used in the Forward line last night as was lucas.

Warnock has been our #1 ruckman and would replace Hampson but saying that Hampson is playing quite well.

Duigan and also jamison have not played any games his year (Like Wood and your captain) and are still a bit underdone.


According to a previous recent post QUOTE "Collingwood are missing most of it's back line, half it's forwarline and several midfield rotations. I would say we'd be missing about a third of our first choice team"

LOL - cmon lets be serious here.

Including the two players we lost last night (who we lost by quarter time, I know Luke Ball went back on for a little while in the 2nd but lets face it he shouldn't have) we are missing 8 players from our best team. 8 out of 22 is more than a third. Of those eight 3 are our first choice KPD and one is a running defender who spends time in midfield (midfield rotation), 3 are small to medium forwards, two of whom spend time in the midfield (midfield rotation) and 1 is one of our first choice centre bounce midfielders. Where was my quote inaccurate?

 

[Bay Pie]

Geelong 2007 started 2-3 in their 1st 5 games
Brisbane 2001 got flogged by carlton in round 8. They were 4-4 at that stage.

Way to early to be writing teams off. At least wait until the bye break and assessthe season from there.

 

[Obeanie1]

Lets be serious here for a minute.


Carlton didnt let you blokes play well. You were smashed BEFORE Ball and Reid went off.

I could continue........


You guys got beaten by a much better team last night.

I wouldnt be worried too much and calling for heads quite yet. You are used to winning so much being flogged hurts and especially by Carlton but last night was more of Carlton making you look bad than you being actually bad.

There are obv a few concerns with some of your players but I would be more looking at their performances against port or Essendon to evaluate how they are.

AS well as Carlton played the Pies skills were terrible. As expected Blues supporters are puffing their chests out announcing they have finally arrived and are better than everyone else.

The Pies game plan last night was a shadow of last year and the short kicking chip, chip kicking style killed them. I can only presume this is Buckley's influence on the game plan and it was crap. Instead of kicking long to Dawes or Cloke inside 50 the Pies tried 30m floating passes that advantaged Calrton time and time again. It was very, very strange and 'unCollingwood like' and cost mulitple goals from turnovers.

The Pies played bad, the Blues played well but to say the Blues 'didn't let the Pies play well' is a load of BS.

Fix the skills, get back to playing a decent game plan and lift your intensity and the Pies will be back on track.

 

[lozza63]

Those writing off the year already are not true Collingwood supporters.[/quote]

Hey SuperSub - i wouldnt be saying things like that mate - i would suggest people are frustrated, let down, embarrassed possibly realists/pessimistic (not sure which applies at this very moment).

In relation to those examples re: our worst games - this actually ranks up there in relation to what our expectations were of this year relative to those years prior to 2010. As a direct result of our performances/results since 2009 It is a slightly" better loss" than the 2011 rd 24 debacle - but losing to Carlton elevates it really.

 

[SuperSub17]

^
Maybe so but it's round 3. As pointed out earlier in this thread there have been a number of times when we have rebounded from bad losses, and some people here are seriously overreacting. We were cut down by injuries, we are still finding our feet under an entirely new coaching panel and for the time being other sides will be ahead of us. We have a reasonable draw in the next month, we could quite feasibly win all four and sit at 5-2.

I was a little harsh but right at the moment we need to stick by the club and have faith that it will turn out alright.

 

[Pera]

Also, Jolly was one of our best in round 1, those saying he is finished have seriously short memories.

Rubbish.

Was up against a raw third gamer and Hale. If he was in any sort of form, he'd have absolutely smashed them that night. Instead he came out even and got a few cheap goals running forward of the play and came out even in the ruck.

Easily the most overrated player on our board. Was jumped over all night and was manhandled around the ground. The umpiring in ruck contests has seriously screwed him up the last few years.

 

[jerry springer]

The boys have just lost the hunger for the contest. Other teams want it more now, we have been up since 08. its hard to stay on top for a while(more credit to geelong)

doesn't matter what the gameplan is,if you lose the hunger,its curtains.Blues want a flag more than us atm.So do hawthorn.we might have to suck it up for a year or so,until the boys get the desperation back,but you cant manufacture it.The boys have got to want it like they did in 2010

 

[SuperSub17]

Rubbish.

Was up against a raw third gamer and Hale. If he was in any sort of form, he'd have absolutely smashed them that night. Instead he came out even and got a few cheap goals running forward of the play and came out even in the ruck.

Easily the most overrated player on our board. Was jumped over all night and was manhandled around the ground. The umpiring in ruck contests has seriously screwed him up the last few years.

Have a look at Didaka, the rest of our board disagrees with you.

 

[Barry Zuckercorn]

Walker would replace either Bower or Lucas I would expect. Bower was used in the Forward line last night as was lucas.

Warnock has been our #1 ruckman and would replace Hampson but saying that Hampson is playing quite well.

Duigan and also jamison have not played any games his year (Like Wood and your captain) and are still a bit underdone.


According to a previous recent post QUOTE "Collingwood are missing most of it's back line, half it's forwarline and several midfield rotations. I would say we'd be missing about a third of our first choice team"

LOL - cmon lets be serious here.

No way known in hell that would happen, not right now anyway.

Agree with the rest of the post.

 

[Boxhead_31]

Do you think that the Pie's might have over-reacted to the GF lose by spending a bit too much time in the gym getting bigger bodies for the crash an bash style that modern football has become?

There were a few Collingwood players who looked a bit bigger and a bit slower than normal out there last night

 

[SuperSub17]

According to the Scum's board, Thomas will be suspendedAnyone see or know anything?

Just wait til we get em next time, the media will build them up, their supporters are cocky and they wont know what hit them ...hoping against hope...

Thankfully we play a few of the softer teams to get our mojo back...

 

[GenevaBlue]

A bit of perspective is needed. Collingwood in my opinion still has one of the best playing lists in the comp and every team has injuries to deal with, just look at Hawthorn and Carlton last year. Collingwood had a dirty night no doubt, but no need for crisis talks.

Carlton are a top four team and would have been last year except for some injuries (and West Coast's soft draw). Remember, Carlton lost to West Coast in an away final by three points without Kreuzer, Waite and Gibbs. The hype that Carlton is a much improved team this year, isn't strictly true, we just have a near full list to choose from.

We still have supporters bagging Ratten as a coach, so bagging the coach seems par for the course for fickle supporters.

Make no mistake, Collingwood will figure heavily come finals time!!!

Looking forward to the re-match. We're the teams that people want to see play!