Autopsy Rd 9 - If only games went for 1 quarter aka Still the Hawks bunnies

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Arr0w

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If anybody saw the look on Cripps face after the game, it was that of a guy who was well and truly over his team mates, and their lack of heart. The club needs to get another quality A grade midfielder in the team to help out Cripps. Until that happens we are staying fixed in the bottom 4-6. If we lose Cripps to a long term injury then you will see how exposed we become in the midfield. McGovern has been a complete flop and unless something drastically changes, he will be lucky to see out his over inflated contract. If and when Princess 'Megan' Curnow ever graces the field again, I can't see how you can have McGovern in that team.

Kennedy is not upto AFL. Been saying it for the past two years, but they keep playing him. SPS is going backwards in his development and perhaps time to look to a WA club for a trade. Walsh will be a champion just needs time. Setterfield goes missing when it gets hard Cunningham needs to work on his defensive game. Murphy, really needs to give it away. His disposal is getting worse as each year passes. We also need another quality ruckman as Pittonet is a 5 year project at best. Pointless blaming the forwards when the ball does not come into their area after quarter time. If the players are struggling with 15 min quarters imagine when the game goes back to normal next season.
Moody, at least you are consistent
 

Macca43

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More selective stats. Should we include the percentage of turnovers v disposals?

All while being a permanent/predominante forward/inside 50 player while most of the others you mentioned have played other roles

If he is not careful, soon he will get passed by defensive wingmen for goals scored

Sugarcoat it anyway you like, but he has been extremely underwhelming, but that's no surprise to most
Those two things can't be possible simultaneously. If you find him underwhelming it is because you expected more, if its no surprise then he is performing as expected.

"More selective stats. Should we include the percentage of turnovers v disposals?" Why not, Betts (at 33) is averaging 8.5 disposals a game (3.8 contested & 5.2 effective), and 4.2 score involvements (roughly 50%) and 2.5 turnovers (30%) and 1.9 clangers. Newnes (at 27) is averaging 11.4 disposals a game (3.3 contested and 8.3 effective) for 2.4 (roughly 20%) score involvements and 2.3 turnovers (20%) and 2 clangers.

"If he is not careful, soon he will get passed by defensive wingmen for goals scored"And the defensive wingman has already been passed by Eddie for tackles laid (2.4 to 1.9).

As I said Betts is far from playing his best but is performing about as I expected
 
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Macca43

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Me too, love Eddie. Was angry/gutted with his departure, especially where it would have been easy to retain him. MM, looking at you.

Forget the name, or what a player has done in the past, but just focus on output

This week, would you retain a 33 year old small forward that has kicked 1 goal in 3 games?
When that small forward laid 6 tackles on the weekend I think I could find room for him.
 

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When that small forward laid 6 tackles on the weekend I think I could find room for him.
He was open for a clear goal when we needed one but Cripps decided to try to be a hero. He gets to good positions. Hawks were also targetting him fairly heavily off the ball, that should have been frees but were allowed.

It's also odd for Arr0w to suggest goal/score assists are selective stats for a small forward.

He's performing better than most other small forwards in the league, and hitting the scoreboard early has had a big part in our improvement this year.

That said, I think he's certainly past it, but a good fit for our team currently. Would like to see Honey or Owies alongside him rather than Cuningham.
 

Moody Blue

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May 21, 2012
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Moody, at least you are consistent
Where are we on the ladder??? After the next 2 games probably 2nd last. 4 Finals in 18 years...5 coaches...5 wooden spoons, and totally inept at understanding how the draft works. I am certain 2021 will be our season, because Charlie Curnow will be back...assuming he doesn't trip over a blade of grass and break something else just before the season starts..


2019 National Draft
Pick 17: Brodie Kemp*, Bendigo Pioneers
Pick 20: Sam Philp, Northern Knights
Pick 47: Sam Ramsay*, Calder Cannons

2018 National Draft
Pick 1: Sam Walsh, Geelong Falcons
Pick 19: Liam Stocker, Sandringham Dragons
Pick 66: Finbar O'Dwyer*, Murray Bushrangers
Pick 70: Ben Silvagni*, Oakleigh Chargers

2017 National Draft
Pick 3: Paddy Dow, Bendigo Pioneers, Swan Hill.
Pick 10: Lochie O'Brien, Bendigo Pioneers, South Mildura
Pick 30: Tom De Koning, Dandenong Stingrays, Mount Martha.
Pick 70: Angus Schumacher, Bendigo Pioneers, Strathfieldsaye
Pick 78: Jarrod Garlett, South Fremantle, Gold Coast Suns / Bibra Lake JFC.
Pick 79 Pass

NB Pick order changed on the night depending on Academy bids

2016 National Draft
Pick 6: Sam Petrevski-Seton, Claremont / Halls Creek
Pick 27: Zac Fisher, Perth
Pick 47: Harrison Macreadie, Henty
Pick 59: Cameron Polson, Sandringham Dragons / Haileybury College
Pick 61: Tom Williamson, North Ballarat Rebels / St Patricks College Ballarat / Ararat
Pick 65: Patrick Kerr, Oakleigh Chargers / St Kevin's College

NB Pick order changed on the night depending on Academy bids

2015 National Draft
Pick 1: Jacob Weitering, Dandenong Stingrays U/18, Mt Martha JFC
Pick 10: Harry McKay, Gippsland Power U/18, Warragul VCFL
Pick 12: Charlie Curnow, Geelong Falcons U/18, Torquay VCFL
Pick 23: David Cuningham, Oakleigh Chargers U/18 / Boroondara Hawks / Melbourne Grammar School
Pick 53: Jack Silvagni, Oakleigh Chargers U/18, Greythorn, Xavier College

NB Pick order changed on the night depending on Academy bids

2014 National Draft
Pick 19: Blaine Boekhorst, Swan Districts, WAFL, Port Headland
Pick 28: Dillon Viojo-Rainbow * Western Jets U/18, Bacchus Marsh
Pick 60: Clem Smith, Perth, WAFL, Thornlie JFC
Pick 63: Jayden Foster *, Calder Cannons U/18, Aberfeldie VMFL

2013 National Draft
Pick 13: Patrick Cripps, East Fremantle, WAFL, Northampton WA
Pick 39: Cameron Giles *, Woodville-West Torrens, SANFL, Blythe-Snowtown SA
Pick 51: Nick Holman, Murray Bushrangers U18, Kyabram VCFL
Pick 57: Pass
Pick 79: Pass
Pick 89: Ed Curnow Promoted Rookie
Pick 94: Tom Bell Promoted Rookie

2012 National Draft
Pick 11: Troy Menzel, Central Districts, SANFL
Pick 35: Tom Temay*, Sandringham Dragons U18
Pick 54: Nick Graham, Gippsland Power U18
Pick 69: Pass
Pick 74: Pass
Pick 89: Levi Casboult, Promoted Rookie
Pick 102: Zach Tuohy, Promoted Rookie

Note: Carlton originally had picks 36 and 71, but moved up 1 and 2 spots respectively when the Adelaide Crows forfeited their two first round picks over salary cap irregularities regarding Kurt Tippett.

2011 National Draft
Pick 22: Josh Bootsma, Sth Fremantle, WAFL
Pick 44: Sam Rowe, Norwood, SANFL
Pick 62: Dylan Buckley, Northern Knights U18
 

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Forget the name, or what a player has done in the past, but just focus on output

This week, would you retain a 33 year old small forward that has kicked 1 goal in 3 games?
Go through all teams and this is not uncommon. I wouldn't mind if he is given a rest, but I don't think he's an issue at all just yet.
 

Moody Blue

Premiership Player
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Horrible post. I suggest you watch the game again.
Just a few points:
Cripps was probably more disappointed in his own game and the team losing then his teammates.
McGovern wasn’t playing on Friday, although he does frustrate, surely you cannot include in this weeks summary.
Kennedy busted a gut all day and was one of our better midfielders applying pressure on the opposition.
Setterfield was moved from the midfield to the forward line.
Cuningham spent all day in the forward line with a strap bigger then our facial masks.
All I saw was Hawthorn blow hard and half the team just hid on the outer waiting for someone to do something. Kennedy is has no leg speed, and cannot compete in the midfield. He can run until he drops, but he has to get his hands on the ball, then do something with it. At best he could hide in the forward line and score a couple of cheap goals, but there are others that can do that. After the next two rounds we will be stuck in the bottom 3...again, so please do not waste my time lecturing me about my terrible posts. I have been listening to people like you for the past 8 years telling me what a great team we have and next year will be our season. Right now we are a bottom 3-6 team. Until we get 2 decent A grade midfielders and a quality ruckman into that team we are going nowhere.
 

Arr0w

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Nov 13, 2015
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Those two things can't be possible simultaneously. If you find him underwhelming it is because you expected more, if its no surprise then he is performing as expected.

"More selective stats. Should we include the percentage of turnovers v disposals?" Why not, Betts (at 33) is averaging 8.5 disposals a game (3.8 contested & 5.2 effective), and 4.2 score involvements (roughly 50%) and 2.5 turnovers (30%) and 1.9 clangers. Newnes (at 27) is averaging 11.4 disposals a game (3.3 contested and 8.3 effective) for 2.4 (roughly 20%) score involvements and 2.3 turnovers (20%) and 2 clangers.

"If he is not careful, soon he will get passed by defensive wingmen for goals scored"And the defensive wingman has already been passed by Eddie for tackles laid (2.4 to 1.9).

As I said Betts is far from playing his best but is performing about as I expected
Why compare him to Newnes, why not Cuners?

Small forward that's kicked 1 goal in the last 3 games, let that sink in Macca
 

Arr0w

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He was open for a clear goal when we needed one but Cripps decided to try to be a hero. He gets to good positions. Hawks were also targetting him fairly heavily off the ball, that should have been frees but were allowed.

It's also odd for Arr0w to suggest goal/score assists are selective stats for a small forward.

He's performing better than most other small forwards in the league, and hitting the scoreboard early has had a big part in our improvement this year.

That said, I think he's certainly past it, but a good fit for our team currently. Would like to see Honey or Owies alongside him rather than Cuningham.
Never mentioned any stats, surprised that people don't highlight all stats, good and bad
 

Arr0w

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Where are we on the ladder??? After the next 2 games probably 2nd last. 4 Finals in 18 years...5 coaches...5 wooden spoons, and totally inept at understanding how the draft works. I am certain 2021 will be our season, because Charlie Curnow will be back...assuming he doesn't trip over a blade of grass and break something else just before the season starts..


2019 National Draft
Pick 17: Brodie Kemp*, Bendigo Pioneers
Pick 20: Sam Philp, Northern Knights
Pick 47: Sam Ramsay*, Calder Cannons

2018 National Draft
Pick 1: Sam Walsh, Geelong Falcons
Pick 19: Liam Stocker, Sandringham Dragons
Pick 66: Finbar O'Dwyer*, Murray Bushrangers
Pick 70: Ben Silvagni*, Oakleigh Chargers

2017 National Draft
Pick 3: Paddy Dow, Bendigo Pioneers, Swan Hill.
Pick 10: Lochie O'Brien, Bendigo Pioneers, South Mildura
Pick 30: Tom De Koning, Dandenong Stingrays, Mount Martha.
Pick 70: Angus Schumacher, Bendigo Pioneers, Strathfieldsaye
Pick 78: Jarrod Garlett, South Fremantle, Gold Coast Suns / Bibra Lake JFC.
Pick 79 Pass

NB Pick order changed on the night depending on Academy bids

2016 National Draft
Pick 6: Sam Petrevski-Seton, Claremont / Halls Creek
Pick 27: Zac Fisher, Perth
Pick 47: Harrison Macreadie, Henty
Pick 59: Cameron Polson, Sandringham Dragons / Haileybury College
Pick 61: Tom Williamson, North Ballarat Rebels / St Patricks College Ballarat / Ararat
Pick 65: Patrick Kerr, Oakleigh Chargers / St Kevin's College

NB Pick order changed on the night depending on Academy bids

2015 National Draft
Pick 1: Jacob Weitering, Dandenong Stingrays U/18, Mt Martha JFC
Pick 10: Harry McKay, Gippsland Power U/18, Warragul VCFL
Pick 12: Charlie Curnow, Geelong Falcons U/18, Torquay VCFL
Pick 23: David Cuningham, Oakleigh Chargers U/18 / Boroondara Hawks / Melbourne Grammar School
Pick 53: Jack Silvagni, Oakleigh Chargers U/18, Greythorn, Xavier College

NB Pick order changed on the night depending on Academy bids

2014 National Draft
Pick 19: Blaine Boekhorst, Swan Districts, WAFL, Port Headland
Pick 28: Dillon Viojo-Rainbow * Western Jets U/18, Bacchus Marsh
Pick 60: Clem Smith, Perth, WAFL, Thornlie JFC
Pick 63: Jayden Foster *, Calder Cannons U/18, Aberfeldie VMFL

2013 National Draft
Pick 13: Patrick Cripps, East Fremantle, WAFL, Northampton WA
Pick 39: Cameron Giles *, Woodville-West Torrens, SANFL, Blythe-Snowtown SA
Pick 51: Nick Holman, Murray Bushrangers U18, Kyabram VCFL
Pick 57: Pass
Pick 79: Pass
Pick 89: Ed Curnow Promoted Rookie
Pick 94: Tom Bell Promoted Rookie

2012 National Draft
Pick 11: Troy Menzel, Central Districts, SANFL
Pick 35: Tom Temay*, Sandringham Dragons U18
Pick 54: Nick Graham, Gippsland Power U18
Pick 69: Pass
Pick 74: Pass
Pick 89: Levi Casboult, Promoted Rookie
Pick 102: Zach Tuohy, Promoted Rookie

Note: Carlton originally had picks 36 and 71, but moved up 1 and 2 spots respectively when the Adelaide Crows forfeited their two first round picks over salary cap irregularities regarding Kurt Tippett.

2011 National Draft
Pick 22: Josh Bootsma, Sth Fremantle, WAFL
Pick 44: Sam Rowe, Norwood, SANFL
Pick 62: Dylan Buckley, Northern Knights U18
You lost me after mentioning 18 years
 

Arr0w

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Go through all teams and this is not uncommon. I wouldn't mind if he is given a rest, but I don't think he's an issue at all just yet.
I don't really care about other teams that said, pick any clubs best/current small forward and let's see how many have kicked 1 goal or less in the last 3 games
 

Macca43

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Why compare him to Newnes, why not Cuners?

Small forward that's kicked 1 goal in the last 3 games, let that sink in Macca
Because that is where this discussion started, a statement was made about Newnes AND YOU compared him to Betts.

"Small forward that's kicked 1 goal in the last 3 games, let that sink in Macca" Now who's using selective stats.
 

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I don't really care about other teams that said, pick any clubs best/current small forward and let's see how many have kicked 1 goal or less in the last 3 games
Restricting to a clubs best forward has no basis, you play or you don't. Higgins, Miers, Elliot, Daniels, Ainsworth, several others don't look like they've done much better but I didn't look in depth.

He positioned well on the weekend, with limited opportunity. Forward 50 entries didn't help. Hasn't been great lately but he wasn't in our bottom half on the weekend.
 

Arr0w

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Because that is where this discussion started, a statement was made about Newnes AND YOU compared him to Betts.

"Small forward that's kicked 1 goal in the last 3 games, let that sink in Macca" Now who's using selective stats.
Is Betts our Best small forward in the team?
1 goal in 3 games is a stat you realise.
Macca, not getting into another circular debate with you, although it is cute that you have to add what I have stated in your replies, like you think I have forgotten

Defend Betts all you like, most could concede 1 goal in 3 games is unacceptable for a small forward
 

Arr0w

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Restricting to a clubs best forward has no basis, you play or you don't. Higgins, Miers, Elliot, Daniels, Ainsworth, several others don't look like they've done much better but I didn't look in depth.

He positioned well on the weekend, with limited opportunity. Forward 50 entries didn't help. Hasn't been great lately but he wasn't in our bottom half on the weekend.
Betts wasn't in our bottom 6 last game?

Who did you have in the bottom 6, in order?
 

Macca43

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Macca, not getting into another circular debate with you, although it is cute that you have to add what I have stated in your replies, like you think I have forgotten

Defend Betts all you like, most could concede 1 goal in 3 games is unacceptable for a small forward
Based on that 1 stat yes, but if you look at both "good and bad stats" you can see there is more to football than just 1 dimension.
 

Macca43

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Macca on all stats he is underwhelming, IMHO

Move on mate
Team high 6 tackles from a forward pocket underwhelming?

And IMHO I don't find being 2nd at the blues for goals scored on Average (behind Levi), second at Carlton for Goal Assists on average (behind McGovern) 4th at the blues for Score Involvements (behind Cripps, Martin and Levi) on average underwhelming, but perhaps I just had more realistic expectations.
 

Arr0w

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Team high 6 tackles from a forward pocket underwhelming?

And IMHO I don't find being 2nd at the blues for goals scored on Average (behind Levi), second at Carlton for Goal Assists on average (behind McGovern) 4th at the blues for Score Involvements (behind Cripps, Martin and Levi) on average underwhelming, but perhaps I just had more realistic expectations.
Macca last time, 1 goal in the last 3 weeks for a small forward, that was my statement

Your expectations are about the supporting your opinions about players you prefer in the side, rather than players that are performing better, hence a more competitive team in the now

Nothing you say will change my opinion, it is about what unfolds with player performances
 

Macca43

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Macca last time, 1 goal in the last 3 weeks for a small forward, that was my statement

Your expectations are about the supporting your opinions about players you prefer in the side, rather than players that are performing better, hence a more competitive team in the now

Nothing you say will change my opinion, it is about what unfolds with player performances
These were also your statements -
" Never mentioned any stats, surprised that people don't highlight all stats, good and bad""
" Macca on all stats he is underwhelming"
 

Aphrodite

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Way too much playing the man and personal attacks creeping back onto our Board across several threads.

Always some that have to have the final say and only their opinion counts.

It needs to stop.

Play nice please.


Zero tolerance!
 

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Betts wasn't in our bottom 6 last game?

Who did you have in the bottom 6, in order?
I don't think it's worthwhile singling out anyone when majority were bad. I'm not suggesting he had a good game necessarily but his effort and positioning would lift it above half imo. I mean the fact that it does though is more indicitive of the team's performance than his own.
 

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