Realistic trading

[Mansons Haircut]

That time of year again when everyone seems to have an idea for a "great" trade which normally involves assuming another club is going to give us what we want for below market value.
Having trouble wording this properly but i hope i can make my point so here goes.
Players aren't like a normal commodity where you can say for eg. i have a player worth 3 & another one worth 5 so trade me for your player worth 8. Clubs just wont accept 2 or 3 average players in exchange for one good one. This also effects list management also as for eg. we give pick X & 2 players to a club for player Y. They now have 2 less picks in the draft because of the the 2 extra players they took (ie. lost 1 player & picked up 1 pick & 2 players) or have to cut 2 extra players.
The main point i'm trying to make is if a player is worth for eg. a first rounder you are very unlikely to get him by offering a second rounder & Rhyce or Egan or Cox etc (some names being thrown around not trying to get sidetracked by specifics here). A club would much rather just have the first rounder in 99% of cases IMO.
Feel free to disagree i just think if you want to speculate be realistic & remember most trades dont invlolve one club sending one player out for multiple players/picks in return unless it's a big big name. Also keep in mind how this effects the list management come draft time it's not as simple as some think.
Hope i'm making sense here - thoughts?

 

[Axl the great]

It all depends on who holds the aces the club or the player,
if a player wants to leave badly, has only 1 year left on his contract or has other behavioral problems then the club has to buckle to a certain extent and may have to settle for less than it wanted.
However if the player is required in contract and is of high value to the team and the club would rather not trade him then usually the club wins out and a super deal for the club happens or they at least break even.
This is why clubs pump up players who are going to leave, in the press etc to inrease market value.

 

[Mansons Haircut]

All that is correct but maybe i confused the issue what i'm trying to say is that when speculating trade deals 2 or 3 oranges dont equal an apple. A lot of trade ideas thrown up here seem to assume that we can offer a below market value draft pick & make up the weight with 1 or 2 fringe players. In reality i think this rarely happens. The meat of the deal has to stack up and a few extra spuds on the side doesn't make sense for team receiving them as they just clog up list space.
Thats my view anyway is that making more sense?

(BTW quietly pleased with myself for the roast dinner analogy above)
(Just noticed the fruit one at the start as well - i must be hungry)

 

[Heater39]

Makes perfect sense. The typical trades that seem to go on aorund here are average player(e.g. Rhyce Shaw) + 3rd rounder for gun player(e.g. Kerr).Take a look at all boards and similar stuff goes on.

Players we may look at trading are Shaw, Johnson, Egan. however these players all have low trade value. Shaw may attract a 3rd rounder, Johnson possibly a 3rd or 4th rounder although unlikely. A possible trade for Egan mentioned in another thread was to trade him for Thomson from Port, who wants to return home.

Don't think we'll be trading any big name players this trade period.

 

[PieLebo87]

Okay, here we go, provide some feedback on these realistic trades;

Toovey + Cox (2 WA boys) for Kerr

Davis (SA boy) for Thomson + Boak

Keefe for O'Keefe

and the best til last -

Didak + H Shaw for Stevie Johnson

 

[B&W Army]

Okay, here we go, provide some feedback on these realistic trades;

Toovey + Cox (2 WA boys) for Kerr

Davis (SA boy) for Thomson + Boak

Keefe for O'Keefe

and the best til last -

Didak + H Shaw for Stevie Johnson

LOL.. those trades are some of the most realistic I've seen on these boards in a while

 

[MightyRoar]

All that is correct but maybe i confused the issue what i'm trying to say is that when speculating trade deals 2 or 3 oranges dont equal an apple. A lot of trade ideas thrown up here seem to assume that we can offer a below market value draft pick & make up the weight with 1 or 2 fringe players. In reality i think this rarely happens. The meat of the deal has to stack up and a few extra spuds on the side doesn't make sense for team receiving them as they just clog up list space.
Thats my view anyway is that making more sense?

(BTW quietly pleased with myself for the roast dinner analogy above)
(Just noticed the fruit one at the start as well - i must be hungry)

Your absolutely spot on with what your saying MH........now I know people are entitled to their own opinion but if you wanna trade shit then you'll get shit back...nothing better or more to the point....nothing at all!!

Players that keep getting thrown up on these threads are players like;

Shaw R.
Johnson
Egan
Lonie (before he retired)
Toovey
IIles
Cook
Cox

These kinda of players aren't going to get us any value.......why do people want to trade them, because they dont really offer us anything anymore and we need to move on from them (although you could argue the latter 2 may provide us with depth)......other sides know these players prob just as well as us and will give us 5 fifths of F@#l all for them!!

The club and playing group from what I am lead to believe, honestly think that the window of opportunity is still open and I am in belief of this too......now if this is the case then, we have one of the youngest lists in the AFL and a good one coming thru at that, so why wouldnt we top up on some quality players that may be up for grabs this season!!

About the only area on the ground that we dont need to trade or draft for is up forward!! I honestly believe that the forward line did a comendable job this year considering it was heavily hit by injuries!!

All other areas need attention and in all I think we need to trade/draft 4 players at least to fill these holes;

2 Mids - One of the inside type and one of quality who has skill,
1 Ruck - Get rid of Bryan.....Wood is still developing so give hime time,
1 Defender - This is just as important as a Mid IMO, we need a quality KPD.....

If the window of opportunity is their then pick up Cousins which covers the in and under Mid and why not chase someone like Dalsanto.....appears to be out of favour at St Kilda, is of quality, has skill and is someone that we need!!

Why not look at Jeff White, would give you 2 years and could help develop Wood along the way and in all honesty, picking up him compared to keeping Bryan is gunna be of no detrement to us at all!!

Defenders.....we need to decide whether or not JA remains up forward of goes down back, with which he was recruited for....has been fantastic as a forward line player this year, however with Rocca, Rusling and Reed to come back in I just dont think they will play him up forward next season unless we can trade/draft a KP defender!!

This brings me to Reed......in the games he has played I just dont think he has done enough to warrant that he is gunna be a star in the future and never really dominated in the 2's as well........our forward line with Rocca to come back in and Rusling (MM loves him and will be given one more chance IMO) just cant accommodate for all of Rocca, Rusling, Dawes, Reed and JA!!
One needs to go and the obvious is Reed IMO....unless they can turn him into a Defender!!



Keep Didak......too good of a player to get rid of and every year that goes by the more and more he keeps maligning into a midfield type player that has the ability to kick goals!! I see in another thread that Ryan O'Keefe may want to come back home to Melb......why not chase him, has quality and skill, can kick goals as a HFF/Mid and would be a good replacement for Dids...allowing him to play more in the midfield!!

Our list is young enough IMO where we can afford to top up this year with players like Pendlebury, Thomas, McCarthy, Didak, Swan, Stanley, Wellingham......young enough to provide us with a formidable midfield in years to come, where we dont need to look at rebuilding and drafting younger type players.....we've done that over the previous couple of years with some of the ones mentioned above !!

 

[Mental Magpie]

We traded shit to Fremantle and got Medhurst and Reid!

 

[Heritier 09]

If the window of opportunity is their then pick up Cousins which covers the in and under Mid and why not chase someone like Dalsanto.....appears to be out of favour at St Kilda, is of quality, has skill and is someone that we need!!

No.
dal santo is a poor mans Pendlebury, who doesn't apply himself, chase or tackle. thats why he's out of favour. i'll lose it if he comes to collingwood.
and we don't need a backman. not one that a club will be willing to trade anyway. mundy looked promising, but we've got stacks of really good up and coming backmen. Browny's played one year, harry is better every game, Maxwell is our harley type, They're talking of Reid playing down back, and Jack Anthony is a backman, there's no two ways about that, hadn't ever played up forward until he played ones, out of necessity with players missing. he's going to be great down there.
The ruck is a concern. in my opinion Wood plays 22 games if fit, and starts in the ruck. Josh starts at half forward and roams up the ground, also taking the forward line hit outs, with 4 boundary umpires it'll be necessary to have them both on the ground.
Bryan plays 2's unless we get an injury.
Its the only way wood can improve, but i've seen enough there to suggest he'll be pretty good. And he's the type that can bulk up, unlike Josh, and Kreuzer and these types.
Get Cousins, play daisy on the ball, or off half back, so he can always see the goals, and learn gut running off one of the greats.
And finally draft well, lately we've drafted superbly, and there'll be very good players left by our first pick. i reckon get the best available because we're not that far away. if we start winning the ball in the guts, then our defence immediately looks much better, and our forwards will be loving it.

B Goldsack, Brown, Maxwell
HB H Shaw, Anthony, O'Brien
C Thomas, Pendlebury, Clarke
HF: Didak, Cloke, Fraser
F: Medhurst, Rusling, Davis
R: Wood, Cousins, Swan
In: Reid, Lockyer, Cox, P'Giacomo
EMG: Rocca, Dawes, Wellingham

Davis and dids swap on the ball, with pendles and swanny.

 

[Ferga18]

Okay, here we go, provide some feedback on these realistic trades;

Toovey + Cox (2 WA boys) for Kerr

Davis (SA boy) for Thomson + Boak

Keefe for O'Keefe

and the best til last -

Didak + H Shaw for Stevie Johnson

Davis is NOT a SA boy, he from WA!!

And as for the didak and shaw trade for johnson... Didak and johnson are exactly the same... they do the exact same things... i remember cam mooney sayin on footy classified about 3 weeks ago, that didak and steve johnson, are the only players in the comp that can do miracle things like they do.. so basically in that trade we would be just giving heath shaw away for free.... i honestly think u need to learn a bit more about the game my friend.... and if u were just joking, then i do apologise.. it was a funny one

 

[Moeys Message]

a bit of tongue in cheek by pielebo fergie, thought you would have picked it up when he suggested Keefe for O'Keefe.
Personallly think Kerr will either stay in WA or if available we don't have anythng to trade for him. Cousins is our best bet and the powers at Lexus realize that and have begun the process of getting him to our club.

 

[The Sqawka]

Okay, here we go, provide some feedback on these realistic trades;

Toovey + Cox (2 WA boys) for Kerr

Davis (SA boy) for Thomson + Boak

Keefe for O'Keefe

and the best til last -

Didak + H Shaw for Stevie Johnson

Hey PieLebo... your a fool!

firstly, toovey and cox wouldnt get a slab of VB cans on the trade market
secondly, as mentioned, leon davis is from WA
thirdly, didak is worth as much if not more than steve johnson.

please please think before typing next time!

 

[The Sqawka]

B Goldsack, Brown, Maxwell
HB H Shaw, Anthony, O'Brien
C Thomas, Pendlebury, Clarke
HF: Didak, Cloke, Fraser
F: Medhurst, Rusling, Davis
R: Wood, Cousins, Swan
In: Reid, Lockyer, Cox, P'Giacomo
EMG: Rocca, Dawes, Wellingham

Davis and dids swap on the ball, with pendles and swanny.

my thoughts..

PROS
Wood rucking and fraser forward (at times not permanantly)
Cousins in our side
Goldsack in the side! Love Him!

CONS
Rocca emerg?
Anthony at CHB? i think that where we will find Reid/Brown in 09
Wellingham not in our best 22?
What about McCaffer?

my side.. (extended emergency list)

B O'Brien, Presti, Maxwell
HB H.Shaw, Brown, Goldsack
C Thomas, Swan, Clarke
HF: Didak, Cloke, Davis
F: Medhurst, Rocca, Rusling
R: Fraser, Cousins, Pendlebury
In: Wood, Lockyer, Wellingham, Reid

EMG: McCaffer, Anthony, Dawes, Cox, Cook, Barham, McCarthy, Stanely

CHANGES
Burns – retired
Wakelin – retired
Lonie – retired
Bryan - delisted
O’Bree – VFL side
R.Shaw – VFL side
Johnson – VFL side

 

[favourites]

Hey PieLebo... your a fool!

firstly, toovey and cox wouldnt get a slab of VB cans on the trade market
secondly, as mentioned, leon davis is from WA
thirdly, didak is worth as much if not more than steve johnson.

please please think before typing next time!

Pretty soon you may see something resembling a penny falling from the sky....

 

[PieLebo87]

Pretty soon you may see something resembling a penny falling from the sky....

LOL top line... I haven't heard that one on BF before.

 

[Heritier 09]

What about McCaffer?
what about him? has he done anything at senior level to warrant a place ahead of dawesy? i named my 22, and in my eyes, the steps we took without Presti and Rocca should be cemented. Its about time Rocca went to the NFL i think. i like him in the side, but doubt his ability to stay fit/build enough endurance to play the role we need him to. the best we can expect from him is 25 goals and 12 games. Presti was on my bench, and i deliberated for a while because i wanted to include JMac, but decided that we were too young without Presti.

and why name 8 emergencies? i know who's on the list.

 

[Bay Pie]

Hopefully we can trade some players like Rhyce Shaw & Egan for pick upgrades. eg. Egan + pick 45 (3rd rounder) for pick 30.

These are the only real trades I see us doing. Freo are in need of many players given thier retirements so perhaps a Cox & Egan for a 3rd rounder type deal.

Note I said type of deal.

 

[SUPERDAWES31]

Just reading the comments and the little dick has been forgotten. Coming back from a knee may take some time, but all things being equal should get some game time in 09.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

That post you've quoted was a joke.

 

[kevind]

Was looking for info on Rhyce Shaw through searching and came across this.

A) I thought some Melbourne supporter offering Miller and Jamar for pick 4 was the worst offer I've ever seen, but Toovey and Cox for Kerr has overtaken that deal.

B) We won't trade Boak. Especially not for a 27 year old who despite being a very good player is not elite. And you're adding Thomson when if this deal were to happen it would be the other way around. Also, as others have mentioned Davis is from WA. If he was to be traded, he'd be a perfect fit to go to Freo and replace Jeff Farmer.

I don't even know who Keefe is so I'll leave that one.

C) Didak is worth as much as Johnson, and while Shaw isn't worth quite that much, he's still a very good player and one of the best young backmen in the AFL. And if you want to help out your clubs images, trading in someone with three police incidents in two years doesn't help. Your first two trades followed the massively favouring your team trend on Bigfooty, this one does the opposite.

I think you missed the joke my friend. If not, there is a looney on the loose at BF. I mean if WCE want Toovey, they are going to have to come up with something better than Kerr and their first round pick. Do they think we are idiots????

How about trading Daniel Motlop and your firsat round pick for Scott Burns. We might throw in Ben davies if we can get him back fom North Melbourne to get the deal over the line

 

[NT.Thunder]

After watching the SANFL final on the weekend getting Thomson wouldnt be a bad thing, especially if we got him for Egan....Straight swap would be great but highly unlikely.

Thomson, if i have the right one was BOG for Sturt with 11 kicks, 24 HB, 6 Marks, 3 tackles and 2goals.....Very impressive and a change of clubs may be just what he needs.

Anyone else thing he has potential

 

[ratten7]

I thought this thread was called realistic trading, so far i haven't heard any realistic trades. This thread started off with some well thought out comments by Mason and Mighty Roar but has struggled past that. what would you give up for Kerr if you made a play. Carlton gave up pick 3, pick 4 and pick 20 for Judd. I am not saying Kerr is in the same boat but if you were to make a play. I would say possibly you would have to give up your first draft( 11?), a good young player( brown or clarke) and a top up player( R shaw). would you consider that? what other trades would you consider for Okeefe, a Brock/Rutten or Dal Santo?.

 

[Rohan25]

Carlton gave up pick 3, pick 4 and pick 20 for Judd.

Just because you made a blunder and took Kennedy at pick 4 does not mean he is worth pick 4 two years later, when you chose to offload him at your earliest opportunity.

 

[well left]

Opposition supporters are obviously having some problems with their 'taking the p!ss' detectors!

 

[ratten7]

Just because you made a blunder and took Kennedy at pick 4 does not mean he is worth pick 4 two years later, when you chose to offload him at your earliest opportunity.

I regret getting rid of kennedy,we did not develope him well. He is the next Richo. Watch this space. The guy will be a star.
And at the end of the day the only thing that will justify Judds recruitment is a Premiership.