List Mgmt. Rebuild or refresh?

[theyellowsash]

I am looking at on the Couch and they are talking about the Western Bulldogs new great defence. Personally I am not buying it, noy yet, I think its just circumstance related and its still weak currently. They show vision of Bontempelli staying back in a defensive positive to help the backs behind the ball. This is where RCD can come into his own in my opinion. Helping the back half while penetrating forward while Bolton and Dusty exert damage in the front half. That makes a lot of sense to me especially when RCD can kick running goals from deep as well.

They also said our defence has not been as strong earlier in the program and I think, frankly with the new rules, some of our smaller defenders have been caught out to often.

I think part of the problem is belief in a system that has taken a battering with the new rules and weakened its effectiveness

so bontempelli was starting centre bounces in the back pocket lining up on the oppositions 2nd or 3rd tall forward was he?

 

[Mr Magic]

so bontempelli was starting centre bounces in the back pocket lining up on the oppositions 2nd or 3rd tall forward was he?

no, and I never said he was.

Guess what RCD is not Bontempelli

RCD plays for the Tigers and Bontempelli plays for the Bulldogs. Both teams play against the same opposition except Tigers opposition includes the Bulldogs and Bulldogs opposition includes the Tigers. Both teams need to find ways to beat the other on the scoreboard to win the prize

The centre bounce is just one point in time by the way

 

[GastevsBeard]

I think 2021 is near on cooked

But I feel like 2022, we could do something similar to the cat-dynasties third premiership in 2011, or even the Chicago Bulls 1998

Like all dynasties we are in the process of going supernova. Our superstars are looking directly into the face of their footy mortality. It is one thing to talk retirement in the abstract like most 30 + footy players do, but it is another to face it - exhibit A last Saturday night

Knowing this, if "the band stays together" & our list can be fitter next year, the players might throw absolutely everything at one last flag. It's an entirely different type of hunger when you know the music is about to stop. It's a forever thing. That's how I view the cats 2011 premiership - Collingwood were a better side, but the cats knew retirements, delistings & trades lay ahead & they were not going to be beaten on the day

Complacency may have set in this year, but this group is too good & too proud. I think we can explode next year, before life post reiwoldt, cotchin, edwards, houli, astbury & premium Martin sets-in

 

[theyellowsash]

no, and I never said he was.

Guess what RCD is not Bontempelli

RCD plays for the Tigers and Bontempelli plays for the Bulldogs. Both teams play against the same opposition except Tigers opposition includes the Bulldogs and Bulldogs opposition includes the Tigers. Both teams need to find ways to beat the other on the scoreboard to win the prize

you said we should play rcd in broads position as the 3rd tall/medium defender because we are lacking medium defenders, and bontempelli spent a lot of gametime supporting the backline.

 

[Mr Magic]

you said we should play rcd in broads position as the 3rd tall/medium defender because we are lacking medium defenders, and bontempelli spent a lot of gametime supporting the backline.

No I did not , you inferred it. I said RCD play partially as a medium defender.

RCD is not Broad. We only have one Broad, so only Broad can be Broad. Bontempelli is not Broad either. RCD can be his own medium defender hybrid in a different defensive team mix/system.

I looked at GWS and Hawthorn replay this morning. Both defensive units defend differently even though at the bounce they have six starting positions.

A football team does not win a game of football at the starting grid.

Notice the defensive intercept marking of the defensive Hawks compared to the GWS defensive unit amongst other differences?

 

[theyellowsash]

No I did not , you inferred it. I said RCD play partially as a medium defender.

RCD is not Broad. We only have one Broad, so only Broad can be Broad. Bontempelli is not Broad either. RCD can be his own medium defender hybrid in a different defensive team mix/system.

I looked at GWS and Hawthorn replay this morning. Both defensive units defend differently even though at the bounce they have six starting positions.

A football team does not win a game of football at the starting grid.

Notice the defensive intercept marking of the defensive Hawks compared to the GWS defensive unit amongst other differences?

so we need a replacement in the back 50 to take intercept marks and support the backline and so you want to bring in well known intercept marker RCD?

 

[Mr Magic]

so we need a replacement in the back 50 to take intercept marks and support the backline and so you want to bring in well known intercept marker RCD?

I think in the next six years if we had someone like a Will Day it would be handy. Will Day is not going to happen but I think we lack in intercept marking in defence and it could be rectified in the next four years or so to make us stronger amongst a myriad of improvements.

RCD is separate to that , he is the sugar that makes the premierships possible by providing extra defensive support and rebound.

Bontempelli is not Will Day either.

We still have not fully recovered from the loss of Rance have we?? Wining a premiership without him is not a recovery, its just making do with what you can rally to compete against the opposition at the time.

If we are serious there are so many areas the RFC team can improve on for greater upside. It is not as if our team is a team of all Australians in their prime

 

[theyellowsash]

I think in the next six years if we had someone like a Will Day it would be handy. Will Day is not going to happen but I think we lack in intercept marking in defence and it could be rectified in the next four years or so to make us stronger amongst a myriad of improvements.

RCD is separate to that , he is the sugar that makes the premierships possible by providing extra defensive support and rebound.

Bontempelli is not Will Day either.

We still have not fully recovered from the loss of Rance have we?? Wining a premiership without him is not a recovery, its just making do with what you can rally to compete against the opposition at the time.

If we are serious there are so many areas the RFC team can improve on for greater upside. It is not as if our team is a team of all Australians in their prime

what does any of that have to do with playing rcd to replace broad as a medium/tall defender?

 

[Mr Magic]

what does any of that have to do with playing rcd to replace broad as a medium/tall defender?

How many times do I have to say I never said RCD would replace Broad? RCD can come in for Broad but that does not mean he plays the same role.

I do not follow the script one goes out and another comes in to play the same role.

I deal in complex systems, I am not a binary operator.

If I need to replace a battleship, I might bring in three destroyers if it suits my/our battle tactics.

If I bring in RCD he defends but not like Broad and other defenders have to adjust and others chip in as part of a different defensive setup. I understand continuity is important in backlines but I like versatile/flexible backlines where players like Grimes can play a few different roles effectively. RCD also plays in the midfield.

In my teams all my players defend including CCJ in the forward line.

I subscribe to Bruce Lee, the best system is no system, you adapt and be like water

I prefer the players to seek their own effective scope, there are parameters but they are allowed to play and reach for the stars when they are effective individually and as a team. My teams are the players team. The players are allowed to drive what they do. So when RCD comes in he does what's best for him and the team which is different to if Broad was in the team and RCD was out because each team combo has a different unique set of synergy and attributes. The best teams are all star teams who can play as a team and you let them coach themselves but that is utopia which has not been nearly reached yet especially when egos get in the way.

There are certain structures to create robustness however with ability, comes fluidity apart from scope and flexibility, evolution and creativity which can become a point of difference and a weapon for the group.

So when RCD comes in the team says RCD help empower us with what you can do. When Broad comes back in the team says help us with what you can do. They both defend, they both attack and compete but they do it in different ways. To utilise the strengths of each the team adjusts around, embraces both uniquely with what each individual brings so if the team is working effectively in terms of synergy and with a leadership that embraces teamwork, awareness and the will to achieve more they adapt to capture the skillset and strengths of each player to ensure the most competitive team combination and methods

 

[THE_GUN]

Can we just delete the last 20-30 posts

Please

 

[Moppey]

First response would be that because we have been competing for premierships. But then again with the likes of D. Rioli and Castagna constantly getting games the bar had been placed pretty low. Perhaps it's like the Australian test team of the 90's it was harder to get in than to be left out. No excuses for any boys club now though.

There is absolutely no reason why you cannot be competing for flags and looking after succession planning at the same time.
Sheesh this whole debate has been about the right balance of getting games into kids verses continually playing those players who are not performing but have been a part of success. Its not just been a debate about performance while winning either. Some of them have chronic deficiencies and while they have performed a role while we have been winning it has always been the case where we should have been looking for better.

If succession planning is done right then its not just when injuries happen that we should play kids.
List weaknesses, finding a balance between getting enough games into kids and having too many thrown in the deep end at the same time. Not rewarding mediocre performances in the seniors with more games. rewarding good games in the two's and on it goes injuries are only one part of it.

What we have mainly done is only play kids when injuries have hit, we have persevered with favorites despite horrid weaknesses and form. We have ignored areas of weakness where we need to find depth ie KPF AND KPD and refused to play Needed types because we might tread on an established players toes.
FMD we have even continued to play blokes with totally horrid performances week on end in roles we have covered ie Rioli Castagna Aarts as small forwards when there have been heaps of other options available already in the team.

Another one is Caddy getting games on a wing it has to be one of the most ludicrous selection decisions going around. Why do we continue to play Castagna and McIntosh week after week YEAR AFTER YEAR when they can not kick a ball at u 10 level yet alone AFL.Yes they performed a role but fmd a blind man can see we should be aiming for more rounded players who dont have such chronic basic weaknesses.

Playing Pickett in the ruck is just another example of them drinking their own bath water and refusing to try kids in the roles especially when Nankervis was fit. Our tall fwds struggling and refusing to play a tall in form in the two,s to help. Losing our biggest KPD and refusing to replace him with a like for like who they continually tell us is ready. I just think they have become too enamoured with those who have won the success for us and find it too hard to make decisions on them.

Have a look at the list of players aged 25 to 28 at the start of next year. That is the blokes in their prime years, the ones who are supposed to be taking over from the vets. At the start of next year we will have 12 vets that is players aged 29 plus and it is the mature 25 to 28 year olds who should be mainly taking over.

25-28
Parker 25 - 19 gms. we have a mature bloke on his second chance heres hoping. Personally i would have drafted his team mate how many more smal/med fwd types like Parker did we need.
Broad 28 - 84 gms. Been a very solid player for us who is usually reliable and goes about his business with little fuss.
McIntosh 27 - 121 gms. Make no bones about this bloke i still shake my head in wonder at how he gets games and always escapes crtiticism.Worst user of the ball in the comp and we play him on a wing.
Nankervis 26 - 93gms. Been very good for us when fit.
Soldo 25 - 36 gms. Soldo has some issues but is good at ruck contests and has come a long way.
Aarts 26 - 28 gms. Not enough polish.
Short 25 - 106 gms. Very very outside. Kicking is over rated as well.
Vlastuin 27 - 169 gms. Been great for us one of the best Medium defenders we have had at the club.

As well as a few of them have done for us, played roles in premierships and the fact some will continue to play important roles they as a collective are not taking over from the vets.
That will have to come from the twenty four Development players 22-24 and Juniors 18 - 21. the problem being only a handful have played more than 50 games.



I think a rebuild of sorts is a must as the blokes who carry the side are now going into decline and there is not enough quality coming thru or even players with games experience to take over. Even if every player on the list became a good player it will take years to get the majority up to speed with enough games behind them.

 

[THE_GUN]

Make that 1 more

 

[Mr Magic]

There is absolutely no reason why you cannot be competing for flags and looking after succession planning at the same time.
Sheesh this whole debate has been about the right balance of getting games into kids verses continually playing those players who are not performing but have been a part of success. Its not just been a debate about performance while winning either. Some of them have chronic deficiencies and while they have performed a role while we have been winning it has always been the case where we should have been looking for better.

If succession planning is done right then its not just when injuries happen that we should play kids.
List weaknesses, finding a balance between getting enough games into kids and having too many thrown in the deep end at the same time. Not rewarding mediocre performances in the seniors with more games. rewarding good games in the two's and on it goes injuries are only one part of it.

What we have mainly done is only play kids when injuries have hit, we have persevered with favorites despite horrid weaknesses and form. We have ignored areas of weakness where we need to find depth ie KPF AND KPD and refused to play Needed types because we might tread on an established players toes.
FMD we have even continued to play blokes with totally horrid performances week on end in roles we have covered ie Rioli Castagna Aarts as small forwards when there have been heaps of other options available already in the team.

Another one is Caddy getting games on a wing it has to be one of the most ludicrous selection decisions going around. Why do we continue to play Castagna and McIntosh week after week YEAR AFTER YEAR when they can not kick a ball at u 10 level yet alone AFL.Yes they performed a role but fmd a blind man can see we should be aiming for more rounded players who dont have such chronic basic weaknesses.

Playing Pickett in the ruck is just another example of them drinking their own bath water and refusing to try kids in the roles especially when Nankervis was fit. Our tall fwds struggling and refusing to play a tall in form in the two,s to help. Losing our biggest KPD and refusing to replace him with a like for like who they continually tell us is ready. I just think they have become too enamoured with those who have won the success for us and find it too hard to make decisions on them.

Have a look at the list of players aged 25 to 28 at the start of next year. That is the blokes in their prime years, the ones who are supposed to be taking over from the vets. At the start of next year we will have 12 vets that is players aged 29 plus and it is the mature 25 to 28 year olds who should be mainly taking over.

25-28
Parker 25 - 19 gms. we have a mature bloke on his second chance heres hoping. Personally i would have drafted his team mate how many more smal/med fwd types like Parker did we need.
Broad 28 - 84 gms. Been a very solid player for us who is usually reliable and goes about his business with little fuss.
McIntosh 27 - 121 gms. Make no bones about this bloke i still shake my head in wonder at how he gets games and always escapes crtiticism.Worst user of the ball in the comp and we play him on a wing.
Nankervis 26 - 93gms. Been very good for us when fit.
Soldo 25 - 36 gms. Soldo has some issues but is good at ruck contests and has come a long way.
Aarts 26 - 28 gms. Not enough polish.
Short 25 - 106 gms. Very very outside. Kicking is over rated as well.
Vlastuin 27 - 169 gms. Been great for us one of the best Medium defenders we have had at the club.

As well as a few of them have done for us, played roles in premierships and the fact some will continue to play important roles they as a collective are not taking over from the vets.
That will have to come from the twenty four Development players 22-24 and Juniors 18 - 21. the problem being only a handful have played more than 50 games.



I think a rebuild of sorts is a must as the blokes who carry the side are now going into decline and there is not enough quality coming thru or even players with games experience to take over. Even if every player on the list became a good player it will take years to get the majority up to speed with enough games behind them.

I am curious to see where Miller is at, where we have him and what he can offer. Some post things but its good to have a look at their development to get a read on things

Given we have a few stars and a few battlers I am surprised a few of the youngsters have not had more opportunity. If Stack is having a crack and applying himself he has to come in if he earns it

 

[ForeverHardcore]

Our midfield needs a major overhaul this off season
It’s a glaring weakness this year

Prestia can’t get on the ground and we need him now with how cotch is playing more then ever
Cotch is near the end. Last 2 games have been really poor
Edwards is a flash in the pan mid and without Prestia feeding him he has looked off this year. Body issues too the last couple of seasons and as much as I love him at 32 we can’t rely on him forever

Shai has come on leaps and bounds and Is dynamic but he’s not an accumulator

dusty is the only accumulator we have besides dion and the numbers are really stark this year in losses.

we’ve tried to change our game style into a chip and hold possession game throughout the year and it showed last week against st Kilda how bad we are at it. We play on instinct and this year we just can’t put it together. That change of game style also comes down to our midfield not being able to control the ball. Geelong, Brisbane and The dogs in particular starve teams of the ball. Geelong have great foot skills to control the ball but also have guys like Guthrie Nd Duncan (injured) who link up and get 25/30 a game. We have no one besides Dusty and our two flankers in short and Houli who do that weekly. We’ve won flags with that game style which is amazing but cotch isn’t the same player and the body of dion has shown we need a refresh imo

That’s why when Tom Mitchell was brought up a few weeks back I was super excited. Titch in our midfield who plays 22 games on repeat will be an awesome get. Cotch’s body is done as is Prestia’s basically. Edwards will end up playing more forward then mid later on his career. Dusty plays 50/50 mid forward so can’t rely on him forever. Lambert isn’t a midfielder. Bolton is a burst player.
we really need help. Rcd showed signs, dow who knows, martyn might come good but our midfield is the one we need to address this off season. Whether that’s at the draft or in a recruiting sense I don’t know but the Prestia injury today has really annoyed me

 

[box070]

Our midfield needs a major overhaul this off season
It’s a glaring weakness this year

Prestia can’t get on the ground and we need him now with how cotch is playing more then ever
Cotch is near the end. Last 2 games have been really poor
Edwards is a flash in the pan mid and without Prestia feeding him he has looked off this year. Body issues too the last couple of seasons and as much as I love him at 32 we can’t rely on him forever

Shai has come on leaps and bounds and Is dynamic but he’s not an accumulator

dusty is the only accumulator we have besides dion and the numbers are really stark this year in losses.

we’ve tried to change our game style into a chip and hold possession game throughout the year and it showed last week against st Kilda how bad we are at it. We play on instinct and this year we just can’t put it together. That change of game style also comes down to our midfield not being able to control the ball. Geelong, Brisbane and The dogs in particular starve teams of the ball. Geelong have great foot skills to control the ball but also have guys like Guthrie Nd Duncan (injured) who link up and get 25/30 a game. We have no one besides Dusty and our two flankers in short and Houli who do that weekly. We’ve won flags with that game style which is amazing but cotch isn’t the same player and the body of dion has shown we need a refresh imo

That’s why when Tom Mitchell was brought up a few weeks back I was super excited. Titch in our midfield who plays 22 games on repeat will be an awesome get. Cotch’s body is done as is Prestia’s basically. Edwards will end up playing more forward then mid later on his career. Dusty plays 50/50 mid forward so can’t rely on him forever. Lambert isn’t a midfielder. Bolton is a burst player.
we really need help. Rcd showed signs, dow who knows, martyn might come good but our midfield is the one we need to address this off season. Whether that’s at the draft or in a recruiting sense I don’t know but the Prestia injury today has really annoyed me

Cotchin Edwards Prestia Lambert and Nankervis have all missed massive chunks and most of it together. Hard to rejuvenate a midfield when your asking first gamers to become inside beasts.

 

[ForeverHardcore]

Cotchin Edwards Prestia Lambert and Nankervis have all missed massive chunks and most of it together. Hard to rejuvenate a midfield when your asking first gamers to become inside beasts.

Very good call
Happened last year too
Prestia and titch missed most of the regular season
Nank missed a huge chunk too

we did well last year due to cotch and Dusty stepping up and carrying the team along with soldo who did a great job

cotch can’t do it anymore. Dusty needs more support then what hes getting. It was horrible viewing at the G the other night. He looked like the only guy genuinely going 110% in the midfield

 

[Mr Magic]

Our midfield needs a major overhaul this off season
It’s a glaring weakness this year

Prestia can’t get on the ground and we need him now with how cotch is playing more then ever
Cotch is near the end. Last 2 games have been really poor
Edwards is a flash in the pan mid and without Prestia feeding him he has looked off this year. Body issues too the last couple of seasons and as much as I love him at 32 we can’t rely on him forever

Shai has come on leaps and bounds and Is dynamic but he’s not an accumulator

dusty is the only accumulator we have besides dion and the numbers are really stark this year in losses.

we’ve tried to change our game style into a chip and hold possession game throughout the year and it showed last week against st Kilda how bad we are at it. We play on instinct and this year we just can’t put it together. That change of game style also comes down to our midfield not being able to control the ball. Geelong, Brisbane and The dogs in particular starve teams of the ball. Geelong have great foot skills to control the ball but also have guys like Guthrie Nd Duncan (injured) who link up and get 25/30 a game. We have no one besides Dusty and our two flankers in short and Houli who do that weekly. We’ve won flags with that game style which is amazing but cotch isn’t the same player and the body of dion has shown we need a refresh imo

That’s why when Tom Mitchell was brought up a few weeks back I was super excited. Titch in our midfield who plays 22 games on repeat will be an awesome get. Cotch’s body is done as is Prestia’s basically. Edwards will end up playing more forward then mid later on his career. Dusty plays 50/50 mid forward so can’t rely on him forever. Lambert isn’t a midfielder. Bolton is a burst player.
we really need help. Rcd showed signs, dow who knows, martyn might come good but our midfield is the one we need to address this off season. Whether that’s at the draft or in a recruiting sense I don’t know but the Prestia injury today has really annoyed me

We don't have Ellis and we have lost a lot of our other depth to over recent years

Makes a difference

Sounds like it would not happen but if we got Rance for 2022 could make a big difference

 

[Moppey]

Geelong's strategy can only be deemed a success if they win another flag. Otherwise it's just delaying the inevitable fall that the salary cap/draft system must bring.

Even then, the only teams that have won multiple flags have all been built from the ground up by hitting the draft hard and picking and developing the right kids.

Not having a go but the second comment got me interested. Hawthorn had seven players in their Premieship teams from 2013 to 2015 who were from other clubs.
Only looked it up because i thought they had their fair share.

While i agree the vast majority of all clubs players comes from the draft but no club should close themselves off to the only other avenue available to them to add to your list. I think Hawthorn did this very well.

I reckon most premiership sides will have 3 or 4 players from other clubs and possibly more with others on the list who did not play in the g/f.

The geelong list structure is odd. they have almost half their list in the vets category and the other half 24 and unders. the hole is in their 25 to 28 year olds.
They could argue that they have plenty of youth on their list and that perhaps they should target a few 22 - 26 yr olds.

Me id like us to bundle up a player or two along with a reasonable pick say geelongs first round pick we got and try and get into the top 10 somehow

 

[fargothegreat]

Not having a go but the second comment got me interested. Hawthorn had seven players in their Premieship teams from 2013 to 2015 who were from other clubs.
Only looked it up because i thought they had their fair share.

While i agree the vast majority of all clubs players comes from the draft but no club should close themselves off to the only other avenue available to them to add to your list. I think Hawthorn did this very well.

I reckon most premiership sides will have 3 or 4 players from other clubs and possibly more with others on the list who did not play in the g/f.

The geelong list structure is odd. they have almost half their list in the vets category and the other half 24 and unders. the hole is in their 25 to 28 year olds.
They could argue that they have plenty of youth on their list and that perhaps they should target a few 22 - 26 yr olds.

Me id like us to bundle up a player or two along with a reasonable pick say geelongs first round pick we got and try and get into the top 10 somehow

I'm not saying don't trade in players. I'm saying that every side that has won multiple premierships built the core of their list through the draft. The Hawks didn't start trading guys in to fill needs until they had that core already sitting there. We're starting to build our next gen core with guys like Bolton, Balta, Baker, CJ, etc. but we don't have a single young elite full time mid yet, and early draft picks is usually the only way you find them without having to pay big $$$ (that we can't afford atm).

 

[Rasha]

Look at the great Brisbane, Hawthorn and Richmond sides of the 2000s and you can see they all struck while the iron was hot.

Brisbane:
- 5x preliminary finals
- 4x grand finals
- 3x premierships

Hawthorn:
- 6x preliminary finals
- 5x grand finals
- 4x premierships

Richmond:
- 4x preliminary finals
- 3x grand finals
- 3x premierships

No matter how you slice, dice and spin it... we managed to strike gold while the iron was hot.

Compare it to the likes of Geelong, Sydney and Collingwood who make up numbers in the finals year in, year out.

Geelong:
- 10x preliminary finals
- 5x grand finals
- 3x premierships

Sydney:
- 8x preliminary finals
- 5x grand finals
- 2x premierships

Collingwood:
- 9x preliminary finals
- 5x grand finals
- 1x premiership

 

[Moppey]

Cotchin Edwards Prestia Lambert and Nankervis have all missed massive chunks and most of it together. Hard to rejuvenate a midfield when your asking first gamers to become inside beasts.

Have to say your lost.We should not be asking the kids to play those roles when so called better players are not there. People have not wanted the kids played with out those players around them, that has been part of the debate. Failing to play them with these players when they have been available is what has been needed and we fail to do it. Injuries happen and we throw em in the deep end with out adequate support.RC-D and CC-J would not have played a game if not for injuries we only play em when the options run out.
What do we do with RCD we drop him or play him out of position as soon as Cotchin and Prestia get back instead of continuing to play him. Now Prestia is out again RCD will get thrown back in there and asked to shoulder the load by himself.
Keep saying we need to find ways to play the younger blokes and that starts with poor performances from the established players rather than waiting for weeks on end until they play a good one and we cop i told you so.

 

[box070]

Have to say your lost.We should not be asking the kids to play those roles when so called better players are not there. People have not wanted the kids played with out those players around them, that has been part of the debate. Failing to play them with these players when they have been available is what has been needed and we fail to do it. Injuries happen and we throw em in the deep end with out adequate support.RC-D and CC-J would not have played a game if not for injuries we only play em when the options run out.
What do we do with RCD we drop him or play him out of position as soon as Cotchin and Prestia get back instead of continuing to play him. Now Prestia is out again RCD will get thrown back in there and asked to shoulder the load by himself.
Keep saying we need to find ways to play the younger blokes and that starts with poor performances from the established players rather than waiting for weeks on end until they play a good one and we cop i told you so.

How do we play them when the better players have been available? It has been a winning formula. Unfortunately for Ross Dow RCD their lack of game time is due to our success. Ideally you’d love to throw them in with the better players but unfortunately we’ve been smashed by injury and they’ve had to shoulder a larger burden. It’s not “I told you so” at all. That’s just petty and achieves nothing. Ideally you’d be blooding these guys with only one or Two of those 4-5 players we’ve had out all at once. They got tipped into the deep end by necessity more so then good management, which is unfortunate on the scoreboard but hopefully serves us well into the future

 

[Masotiger]

25-28
Parker 25 - 19 gms. we have a mature bloke on his second chance heres hoping. Personally i would have drafted his team mate how many more smal/med fwd types like Parker did we need.
Broad 28 - 84 gms. Been a very solid player for us who is usually reliable and goes about his business with little fuss.
McIntosh 27 - 121 gms. Make no bones about this bloke i still shake my head in wonder at how he gets games and always escapes crtiticism.Worst user of the ball in the comp and we play him on a wing.
Nankervis 26 - 93gms. Been very good for us when fit.
Soldo 25 - 36 gms. Soldo has some issues but is good at ruck contests and has come a long way.
Aarts 26 - 28 gms. Not enough polish.
Short 25 - 106 gms. Very very outside. Kicking is over rated as well.
Vlastuin 27 - 169 gms. Been great for us one of the best Medium defenders we have had at the club.

You have got to be kidding??

Let's start with Short. B&F in a premiership year. Conversation should stop there. I'd back our coaching panel to have a better assessment of Short than you. Kicks the ball 60m off 1 step. Metres gained is elite. Perfect defender for our chaos style of game. Unlucky to have lost his place in the team leading to the 2017 premiership.

McIntosh. What people like you fail to realise is the 2nd and 3rd aspects of the game. Let me remind you. 1) you've got the ball, 2) the opposition has got the ball, 3) the ball's in dispute. Look at McIntosh's running ability and running patterns when the opposition has the ball. Watch his closing speed on opponents. When Vlastuin went down early in last years GF and it was starting to look like shit, McIntosh swung back to fill that defensive role. BTW, top 5 finish in the B&F in a premiership year. I rest my case.

 

[Mr Magic]

Going back a bit people need to understand the Chris Yarran trade was a miss. Its still affecting us because it was before the surge in terms of missed draft picks and their development

We lack a bit of depth. Bulldogs and Mebourne drafting is starting to catch up with the talent dispersion. They are younger opposition emerging. Adelaide is gone for the moment and Geelong will not last while GWS is still sorting itself out

Ellis has gone and others, age profile starting to go against us with the emerging teams.

Rance also left when we were high and luckily we still won when we could

Brisbane beat Essendon , Collingwood and got pipped by Port.

Hawthorn run lasted until a younger group matured but I think they where advantaged because of the expansion period in terms of free agents and some clubs where new to the game

Have to stay young to be relevant.

The other thing is Bulldogs snuck a premiership in 2016, dropped lost Boyd and now a lot stronger through the draft and youth. Some in the media are anticipating a run for them, they should have cap issues down the track

 

[THE_GUN]

Going back a bit people need to understand the Chris Yarran trade was a miss. Its still affecting us because it was before the surge in terms of missed draft picks and their development

We lack a bit of depth. Bulldogs and Mebourne drafting is starting to catch up with the talent dispersion. They are younger opposition emerging. Adelaide is gone for the moment and Geelong will not last while GWS is still sorting itself out

Ellis has gone and others, age profile starting to go against us with the emerging teams.

Rance also left when we were high and luckily we still won when we could

Brisbane beat Essendon , Collingwood and got pipped by Port.

Hawthorn run lasted until a younger group matured but I think they where advantaged because of the expansion period in terms of free agents and some clubs where new to the game

Have to stay young to be relevant.

The other thing is Bulldogs snuck a premiership in 2016, dropped lost Boyd and now a lot stronger through the draft and youth. Some in the media are anticipating a run for them, they should have cap issues down the track

Not too sure if the Yarran trade has really set us back
We traded #19 which become #23 and Carlton selected Cunningham
Thee only player that was selected between #23 -#50 (oleg Markov) we missed on is Dunkley which we wouldn't have selected anyway
But Yes if we did select him it would have been a massive get.