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Redbacks: Title Town

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lincsPJ said:
tassie have their fair share of ringers as well.

as far as i see it, it comes down to the diluted grade system. cricket isn't the powerhouse sport it once was, and as we know the A grade district scene is nowhere near as strong as it was 20 years ago. until the mergers happen, SA cricket will still have a huge (and continually widening) gap between grade and 1st class.
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Hilfenhaus, Wade, Paine, Bailey, Faulkner all local products who have made international level in the last few years across the various formats.

Much smaller population than us and you can't tell me their grade competition is significantly stronger than ours. Quite the opposite I'd have thought. They have the Launceston/Hobart split for starters.

The issue lies in the state squad system IMO more so than grade cricket. Easy to blame grade cricket though. It would be like AFL clubs blaming the SANFL/WAFL/VFL/TAC Cup when they're going badly.
 
Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
Hilfenhaus, Wade, Paine, Bailey, Faulkner all local products who have made international level in the last few years across the various formats.

Much smaller population than us and you can't tell me their grade competition is significantly stronger than ours. Quite the opposite I'd have thought. They have the Launceston/Hobart split for starters.

The issue lies in the state squad system IMO more so than grade cricket. Easy to blame grade cricket though. It would be like AFL clubs blaming the SANFL/WAFL/VFL/TAC Cup when they're going badly.
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good point about the tassie boys, but what are dan marsh's chums doing down there differently (other than not caring about what cossie weighs)? we seem to give some young blokes a go in the top 6, but they just don't seem up to first class standard. raphael and smith are 2 off the top of my head but there seems to be a handful of middle order young bats that should be able to hold an end up and progressively make scores. (don't start me on ferg, that's a whole other issue).

we can name sayers, richardson, putland and george as probably currently one of, if not the best home grown quick attacks at state level. which is impressive considering they bowl on an absolute road at home. we have had little trouble developing quicks over the years. but our batting line up has been as fragile as it gets for the best part of 15 years.

i firmly believe that having guys in A grade facing tighter attacks and having a higher concentration of good bats batting together, can only improve things at grade level and make the transition easier.
 
No doubt improving grade cricket would be helpful, but apparently all states are bemoaning the strength of their grade cricket, saying that it was stronger 20 years ago etc.

What has bugged me most about the Redbacks and SA cricket in general is that our state junior teams generally punch above their weight and do ok. We often see home ground players come onto the scene and look the part early - Dan Cullen, Cullen Bailey, Andy Delmont, Jason Borgas, Cameron Borgas, Peter George, James Smith, Tom Plant, Tim Davey, Jake Haberfield, Ben Dougall - there is an endless list. But after they come onto the scene they don't improve at all. In fact they seem to go backwards.

Plus they get stuck behind these blow ins from interstate who are no better and selection becomes a revolving door.

At South Australian level (and Australian level) I hate that there is so little long term planning or stability. At a coaching/administration level, everyone is under the pump trying to justify their job, trying to earn another contract, trying to achieve an instant outcome. That is why the Redbacks recruit so many players - to get better results in the Shield this season. Their mandate doesn't seem to be to build a successful culture and a system that consistently produces first class, home grown players. Similarly the Australian team becomes a revolving door with teams constantly changed as we search for the Magic XI that will suddenly start winning.

Do you think we'd stick with Steve Waugh for three years without a test century now? He debuted in the 1986/87 series against India and didn't make a test ton until the 1989 Ashes tour. If that happened now he would have been in and out of the test team 3 or 4 times by that stage.

Where is the vision? Where are the players anointed by Trevor Hohns and co as the next generation to be invested in?

It's reactive, short-term, survival mode.
 

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Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
Where is the vision? Where are the players anointed by Trevor Hohns and co as the next generation to be invested in?

It's reactive, short-term, survival mode.
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May I draw your attention to 20/20 cricket, it has infected cricket. From ability, to selection, to planning it is a blight on the game
 
England are on the arse end of their generation from the 2005 series, they have had the same core group there for ten years. I noticed when they brought in a new spinner or paceman, it was a stark difference. When people like Swann, Anderson, Pietersen and Bell go, they will have a dramatic drop

India are far harder to judge as they are shit here but unbeatable back home
 
Scheduling another myth imo. Quality players should be able to adapt between the different formats. The T20 doesn't even start until December. How did scheduling negatively affect the 2013 Ashes?

Who's been picked on T20 form? Lyon? Warner?

T20 is the easy factor to blame. There is obviously a hatred of it from the same old boilers still bitter about Kerry Packer and pajama cricket.
 
Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
T20 is the easy factor to blame. There is obviously a hatred of it from the same old boilers still bitter about Kerry Packer and pajama cricket.
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Maybe there is another reason why our only batsmen in the last three years at test level to consistently score tons...doesn't play 20/20. I've watched it evolve even at country level cricket where before you would get 10-12 tons a year in the comp and now you can go a season without one. I think the 50 over game still catered a bit for patient batting at the beginning and bat throwing at the end which was usually the domain of all rounders or large shoulder bowlers so it didn't affect test playing as much but 20/20 is a hard format to chop and change from.

It isn't to say it is impossible for a good test player to play in both forms, there will always be those players but I think we will see in the future test players ( batters primarily ) being told what they can play
 

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Is part of the problem that we have so few 2nd tier teams to pick national players from compaired to most other countries?
 
Moonwatcher said:
Can anyone tell me about parking at Glyderol Stadium Gleneld for the Sheffield Shield match?
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There's a carpark west side of the ground, off Brighton Rd. If that's closed to the public, well, the ground is in the middle of a suburb - find a side street, there's plenty of them.
 
jumboprince said:
It isn't to say it is impossible for a good test player to play in both forms, there will always be those players but I think we will see in the future, test players ( batters primarily ) being told what they can play
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batters play 2020.

batsmen play test cricket.

as for scheduling, 1 ball of 2020 should not be bowled (or thrown depending on who you play for) until the test series is completed. it should be shield and only shield from october until the end of the sydney test. most seasons it has started around christmas, but last year it started in early december and all other forms of cricket came to a standstill didn't it? so no one could push for test selection against SL with anything other than net sessions. saying it's the sole reason? course not. but it's not ideal preparation.

this was one of my favourite articles of the year to date: http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/665033.html

keen to hear from Drugs Are Bad Mackay? as to how many myths he's mentioned! :p
 

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The article doesn't blame T20 at all.

The thing is that the national team is the end point of 20-30 years of development. Why aren't we winning NOW and we look to the last few years for answers. T20, scheduling, Futures U21 rule change, coach appointments, selection, rotation policy. All red herrings.

The West Indies demise was 20 years in the making, after cable tv and the NBA had infiltrated. American gangster culture. Cricket as THE way of life became a thing of the past. Of course they still had Richards, Greenidge, Marshall and later Hooper, Lara, Ambrose to continue the dynasty so the results didn't turn south for a number of years. What dried up was the production line of talented athletes who chose cricket as their No 1 sport.

We are in the same boat and cricket has been caught asleep at the wheel. Footy in winter, cricket in summer. For every elderly cricket volunteer and administrator (ie all of them) this is all they have known. We've never had to "sell" cricket because kids have naturally flocked to the game. Not anymore, and not for years. Yet the game has not changed except in the very youngest age groups.

Sedentary lifestyles, video games, internet, time poor parents, part time jobs plus a multitude of other sports to choose from. It has eroded cricket's stronghold. There is no longer a production line of talented athletes choosing cricket as their No 1 sport.

And coupled with that is coaches, selectors and administrators saddled with short term perform or perish contracts which means no vision, no patience and just bandaid solutions and knee jerk reactions. Ir means we don't maximise the talent we DO have.

The U21 rule has been trotted out often as a root cause of the problem. What people fail to ask though was WHY was it brought in? It's because they looked around and realised 2nd XI line ups were full of 30+ year old Shield journeymen and there wasn't enough talent coming through. This was a symptom of the underlying problem.
 
Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
No doubt improving grade cricket would be helpful, but apparently all states are bemoaning the strength of their grade cricket, saying that it was stronger 20 years ago etc.

What has bugged me most about the Redbacks and SA cricket in general is that our state junior teams generally punch above their weight and do ok. We often see home ground players come onto the scene and look the part early - Dan Cullen, Cullen Bailey, Andy Delmont, Jason Borgas, Cameron Borgas, Peter George, James Smith, Tom Plant, Tim Davey, Jake Haberfield, Ben Dougall - there is an endless list. But after they come onto the scene they don't improve at all. In fact they seem to go backwards.

Plus they get stuck behind these blow ins from interstate who are no better and selection becomes a revolving door.

At South Australian level (and Australian level) I hate that there is so little long term planning or stability. At a coaching/administration level, everyone is under the pump trying to justify their job, trying to earn another contract, trying to achieve an instant outcome. That is why the Redbacks recruit so many players - to get better results in the Shield this season. Their mandate doesn't seem to be to build a successful culture and a system that consistently produces first class, home grown players. Similarly the Australian team becomes a revolving door with teams constantly changed as we search for the Magic XI that will suddenly start winning.

Do you think we'd stick with Steve Waugh for three years without a test century now? He debuted in the 1986/87 series against India and didn't make a test ton until the 1989 Ashes tour. If that happened now he would have been in and out of the test team 3 or 4 times by that stage.

Where is the vision? Where are the players anointed by Trevor Hohns and co as the next generation to be invested in?

It's reactive, short-term, survival mode.
Click to expand...



Great post.

Indicative of society in general, I think.
 
Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
The article doesn't blame T20 at all.

The thing is that the national team is the end point of 20-30 years of development. Why aren't we winning NOW and we look to the last few years for answers. T20, scheduling, Futures U21 rule change, coach appointments, selection, rotation policy. All red herrings.

The West Indies demise was 20 years in the making, after cable tv and the NBA had infiltrated. American gangster culture. Cricket as THE way of life became a thing of the past. Of course they still had Richards, Greenidge, Marshall and later Hooper, Lara, Ambrose to continue the dynasty so the results didn't turn south for a number of years. What dried up was the production line of talented athletes who chose cricket as their No 1 sport.

We are in the same boat and cricket has been caught asleep at the wheel. Footy in winter, cricket in summer. For every elderly cricket volunteer and administrator (ie all of them) this is all they have known. We've never had to "sell" cricket because kids have naturally flocked to the game. Not anymore, and not for years. Yet the game has not changed except in the very youngest age groups.

Sedentary lifestyles, video games, internet, time poor parents, part time jobs plus a multitude of other sports to choose from. It has eroded cricket's stronghold. There is no longer a production line of talented athletes choosing cricket as their No 1 sport.

And coupled with that is coaches, selectors and administrators saddled with short term perform or perish contracts which means no vision, no patience and just bandaid solutions and knee jerk reactions. Ir means we don't maximise the talent we DO have.

The U21 rule has been trotted out often as a root cause of the problem. What people fail to ask though was WHY was it brought in? It's because they looked around and realised 2nd XI line ups were full of 30+ year old Shield journeymen and there wasn't enough talent coming through. This was a symptom of the underlying problem.
Click to expand...



A massive part of Australian cricket died after the summer of 2006/2007. It was palpable.
 

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