Redo the 1998 Draft

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

This is what I have but I'd love to hear where I went wrong.

1. Hayes (Brisbane)
2. Fevola (Fremantle)
3. Bolton (Sydney)
4. Scotland (Sydney)
5. Burton (Port Adelaide)
6. McVeigh (Carlton)
7. Carr (Port Adelaide)
8. Embley (Sydney)
9. Wojcinski (Essendon)
10. Davis (West Coast)
11. Simmonds (St. Kilda)
12. Stenglien (Essendon)
13. Rawlings (Melbourne)
14. Headland (Bulldogs)
15. Baker (North)
16. McGregor (Adelaide)
17. Raanauskas (Geelong)
18. Longmuir (Fremantle)
19. Fosdike (Collingwood)

Sorry if this has been done.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

13. Rawlings (Melbourne)

Phwoar, fair go mate.

The bloke won 3 x B&F's and shut down Judd regularly before they changed the rules.

He should be at 4 to 6.

 

[Super Hans]

Phwoar, fair go mate.

The bloke won 3 x B&F's and shut down Judd regularly before they changed the rules.

He should be at 4 to 6.

Please, if he didn't play for North you wouldn't batter an eye lid at that.

I'd have Bolton above Fev, after that it's about right.

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

Phwoar, fair go mate.

The bloke won 3 x B&F's and shut down Judd regularly before they changed the rules.

He should be at 4 to 6.

Sounds like I've undersold him. I had no idea he won 3 best and fairest awards.

 

[Super Hans]

Rawlings was a terrific tagger, right up there with the best pure shutdown mids in the AFL era IMO. Still not sure you'd pay a top 10 pick for a stopping tagger no matter how good he is.

Great tagger I'll give him that. But he was just that, a tagger. Not worth a top 10 pick. Can't be 4-6 off the bases he 'stopped Judd afew times'.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Phwoar, fair go mate.

The bloke won 3 x B&F's and shut down Judd regularly before they changed the rules.

He should be at 4 to 6.

Wojcinski was an integral part of 3 premierships.

Rawlings was a tagger first and foremost, average player at best.

It wasn't hard to win B&F's at Norf considering his opposition.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Sounds like I've undersold him. I had no idea he won 3 best and fairest awards.

It's okay mate, you wouldn't be the first. This tends to happen with taggers.

Judd only polled Brownlow Medal votes in 2 games against North in the years that Rawlings picked him up. Both matches were in 2006 when he won the Brownlow.

Judds disposals v Rawlings: 17, 15, 16, 21, 33, 20, 11

If Scott didn't send Brady to the back pocket in 2009 then the touch ups would have continued.

 

[Super Hans]

It's okay mate, you wouldn't be the first. This tends to happen with taggers.

Judd only polled Brownlow Medal votes in 2 games against North in the years that Rawlings picked him up. Both matches were in 2006 when he won the Brownlow.

Judds disposals v Rawlings: 17, 15, 16, 21, 33, 20, 11

If Scott didn't send Brady to the back pocket in 2009 then the touch ups would have continued.

Judd didn't win the brownlow in 2006..

I dare say no taggers are worth a top 10 pick. Top 10 picks should be the blokes getting chased by taggers.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

I dare say no taggers are worth a top 10 pick. Top 10 picks should be the blokes getting chased by taggers.

I don't rate your opinion and therefore don't really care what you think.

 

[Super Hans]

I don't rate your opinion and therefore don't really care what you think.

Ummm, ok. Don't reply to anything I said just say I'm wrong. I suppose you fit in with the other norf flogs on this site. Rawlings was a tagger, that's it.

I don't rate your opinion either, and really don't care. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[Leslie_Chow]

Longmuir career cut far too short

 

[zill]

Pavlich was eligible for the draft in 1998. I think he would be taken 1 or 2, if the clubs had their time again.

 

[liam_13]

Wojcinski was an integral part of 3 premierships.

Rawlings was a tagger first and foremost, average player at best.

It wasn't hard to win B&F's at Norf considering his opposition.

Wojinscki wasn't much more than an average player. First and foremost he was a flashy player, while the likes of Scarlett, Enright, Chapman, Bartel, Selwood, Kelly, Ottens and Ling were the integral parts of all 3 premierships.

The top few are clearcut the best, but after 6 or so, I find this draft difficult to rate, there are a few players like Rawlings, Carr, Baker and Stenglein (harsh to rate Stenglein in this group) who probably had less talent then others, but ended up with better careers in terms of games and individual awards such as B&F's. Then there is players like Craig Bolton, Ramanaskus, Longmuir and Fosdike who were very good footballers but had injury troubles which lead to them ultimately not ending up with the 'record' they could have.

1. Lenny Hayes - Brisbane - not only has he being an exceptional footballer, he has also been a very good leader. Great player for over the last decade.

2. Brendan Fevola - Fremantle - if only he were sensible...kicked 80+ goals in a year 3 times, a very difficult feat in the 2000's. Almost kicked 100 goals..arguably most talented player in the draft, but didn't have the leadership credentials or professionalism of Hayes

3. Jude Bolton - Sydney - dual premiership player, 300 games, great leader and important part of the Sydney "culture". Really should be at no.2 in terms of career, but Fevola being the KF meant he went before Bolton for me.

4. Heath Scotland - Sydney - had his share of off-field troubles as well, but managed to win a B&F and make the AA squad at Carlton. Will have played 250+ games by the end of his career, and if he pushes on into 2014 it could easily be 280ish games.

5. Andrew Embley - Port - very underrated player, but was consistently a top 10 player for the Eagles over the last decade. Won a Norm Smith, played in a premiership, could still play 1 or 2 more years and will quite possibly finish with 250+ games and 250+ goals. Would have been very useful in the early/mid 2000's of Port.

6. Craig Bolton - Carlton - A premiership player and captain of an AFL side, his career being cut short due to injuries meant he won't get the recognition of others. Could easily be pick 4-6 here. If he had played the last couple of years and got 220-230 games up, he probably could push into the top 5 of "Liam's Draft Redone" (a very important goal for most footballers)

7. Mark McVeigh - Port - a player who unfortunately imo never got the best out of himself, mostly due to injuries. Was on track for a top 10 Brownlow finish in 2008? I think, but missed a large chunk of the season in the end. Having said that, 230ish games, and vice captain of Essendon for 6ish years. Would have been a good addition to Port and would have provided some much needed leadership in the wake of their 2007 GF if he was still there

8. David Wojinscki - Sydney - provided great dash for the Cats, and 3 premierships and 200 games to his name means he has to go top 10. One of the players I mentioned in the first paragraph who through injury didn't get the best out of themselves.

9. Brady Rawlings - Essendon - 3 B&F's, 250ish games, an underrated and important player for North over the years. While he may have been just a tagger, he is worthy of a top 10 spot because of his output.

10. Tyson Stenglein - West Coast - very unassuming, but important player, for both the Crows and Eagles. Won a premiership for the Eagles, and ended up playing 200 games. If your top 10 picks did that, would be very worth it. Manages to slip in here because he's from WA anyway

11. Nick Davis - St Kilda
12. Josh Carr - Essendon
13. Brett Burton - Melbourne
14. Adam Ramanaskus - Western Bulldogs (was tracking to be top 10 easily imo before he got cancer)
15. Des Headland - North
16. Steve Baker - Adelaide
17. Nic Fosdike - Geelong (could easily be 13 but I didn't see as much of him as did the other 4 or 5 he could replace)
18. Troy Simmonds - Fremantle
19. Justin Longmuir - Collingwood
20. Danny Jacobs - Hawthorn

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Wojinscki wasn't much more than an average player. First and foremost he was a flashy player, while the likes of Scarlett, Enright, Chapman, Bartel, Selwood, Kelly, Ottens and Ling were the integral parts of all 3 premierships.

It may be time for you to focus more of your attention to watching football.

 

[liam_13]

It may be time for you to focus more of your attention to watching football.

So he belonged with the others? No, he was a HBF/wing who averaged in the mid teens for disposals. Certainly not going to go down in history. Still, probably 7th or 8th best from his draft (in hindsight he could be ahead of McVeigh certainly)

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

So he belonged with the others? No, he was a HBF/wing who averaged in the mid teens for disposals. Certainly not going to go down in history. Still, probably 7th or 8th best from his draft (in hindsight he could be ahead of McVeigh certainly)

Another naive individual who uses statistics to rate and judge players.

 

[liam_13]

Another naive individual who uses statistics to rate and judge players.

No, I use statistics to back up what I see, what I watch, with my eyes.
Watch football first, then use statistics to back up your claims.

I'm saying Wojcinski isn't much more than average, so he belongs in the 'good' category rather than 'very good'. You said he was an integral part of the Cats 3 premierships, I disagreed - the likes of Bartel, Chapman, Kelly, Scarlett etc were integral, not the likes of Wojcinski (Rooke, Stokes and Josh Hunt are/were decent players, but they weren't 'integral').

Do you honestly disagree with that? Wojcinski belongs with Bartel, Chapman, Scarlett???

Or do you think he wasn't 'flashy'? 'Flashy' isn't always bad, it can be a good thing a lot of the time - North needs it more than anything at the moment.

All about comprehension...

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Wojcinski was a hell of a lot better than you're suggesting.

An average player doesn't play 200 games, including 3 premierships.

 

[liam_13]

Yeah, that's why I said he was good. Not much better then average /=/ average

You've avoided my question, so I assume you agree that Wojcinski doesn't belong with the actual integral players. Which was pretty much my whole point before you posted about me being naive and not watching football

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Yeah, that's why I said he was good. Not much better then average /=/ average

You've avoided my question, so I assume you agree that Wojcinski doesn't belong with the actual integral players. Which was pretty much my whole point before you posted about me being naive and not watching football

You quite clearly cannot read.

Wojcinski was an integral part of 3 premierships.

 

[liam_13]

You quite clearly cannot read.

Yes I can, and you still haven't answered my actual question. perhaps you are the one who can't read?

I said the integral players are actually the likes of Paul Chapman, Matthew Scarlett, Jimmy Bartel (even Ablett for 2 of the premierships). Does Wojcinski belong with those guys? That was my question, you haven't answered it. So you are the one who has shown themselves to be unable to read.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Yes I can, and you still haven't answered my actual question. perhaps you are the one who can't read?

I said the integral players are actually the likes of Paul Chapman, Matthew Scarlett, Jimmy Bartel (even Ablett for 2 of the premierships). Does Wojcinski belong with those guys? That was my question, you haven't answered it. So you are the one who has shown themselves to be unable to read.

Yes he does belong with those guys. The role he played within the side was integral to the success of the club.

Now I know you wouldn't understand this because you fail to look at the bigger picture of the operation of a successful football side.

Walk on over to the Geelong board and pose your question.

Goodbye.

 

[liam_13]

Yes he does belong with those guys. The role he played within the side was integral to the success of the club.

Now I know you wouldn't understand this because you fail to look at the bigger picture of the operation of a successful football side.

Goodbye.

Ok. I think he doesn't belong with those guys because they are irreplaceable individually, I don't think Wojcinski was that good that you wouldn't be able to find a close enough like-for-like replacement. Results speak for themselves - Scarlett, Chapman, Enright, Kelly, Bartel, Selwood, Ling, Ottens etc - were continuously your best players in finals, finishing high up in B&F's, making AA squads, carrying the rest of your team over the line in tight situations. Wojo was always a good performer in finals, but never did the rest. Was handy quite a few times in tight games, but never had the impact of a Bartel, Hawkins, Chapman.


So far you've told me that I don't watch football, you've called me naive, I can't read and I fail to look at the bigger picture of a football side. You've barely brought anything up other then attack me - and now I wonder why I bothered to reply the first time, as someone will never have a reasonable debate with a poster who instantly looks to make shit claims about another.

(I like how Wojo didn't even finish top 15 in the 2007 or 2008 B&F's, nor top 10 in 2009/2010/2011, possibly lower but I can't find actual results, but yeah, he was an integral member with the consistently top 7/8 players like Scarlett and Chapman and Bartel).

Seeings as you are apparently leaving, I will finish with this. David Wojcinskis belongs high up in his draft class (top 6/7), and was undoubtedly a good player in his time at the Cats. But at no stage did I ever think he was essential to the 3 premierships the Cats won, just as Stokes wasn't essential, Hunt wasn't essential - good players who were part of a great team

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

On what planet was Mark McVeigh a better footballer than Brady Rawlings?

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Ok. I think he doesn't belong with those guys because they are irreplaceable individually, I don't think Wojcinski was that good that you wouldn't be able to find a close enough like-for-like replacement. Results speak for themselves - Scarlett, Chapman, Enright, Kelly, Bartel, Selwood, Ling, Ottens etc - were continuously your best players in finals, finishing high up in B&F's, making AA squads, carrying the rest of your team over the line in tight situations. Wojo was always a good performer in finals, but never did the rest. Was handy quite a few times in tight games, but never had the impact of a Bartel, Hawkins, Chapman.

Like I said earlier there are playing roles within the coaching structures that make certain players integral to the sides performance. Bomber played one of those role continually and with applomb.

So far you've told me that I don't watch football, you've called me naive, I can't read and I fail to look at the bigger picture of a football side. You've barely brought anything up other then attack me - and now I wonder why I bothered to reply the first time, as someone will never have a reasonable debate with a poster who instantly looks to make shit claims about another.

How is that classified as an attack. Seriously, you must be fairly insecure.

Seeings as you are apparently leaving, I will finish with this. David Wojcinskis belongs high up in his draft class (top 6/7), and was undoubtedly a good player in his time at the Cats. But at no stage did I ever think he was essential to the 3 premierships the Cats won, just as Stokes wasn't essential, Hunt wasn't essential - good players who were part of a great team

I beg to differ