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Richard Vandenberg

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Stripes666

Stripes666

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I want to get your opinion of him because it baffles me that you appointed a man who wouldn't make the 22 of any top 8 club your captain.
Are there any explanations out there?
 
Stripes666 said:
I want to get your opinion of him because it baffles me that you appointed a man who wouldn't make the 22 of any top 8 club your captain.
Are there any explanations out there?
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Yes,

He makes our 22 at the moment. He provides great leadership, both on the field with his aggression but off the field with his attitude towards the club. Everyone respects him... and the players want him to be captain.

I think you should stay in the tiger forum... we dont appreciate people taking swipes at our players.
 
I get your point in a sense, the leading by example theory (best player for captain eg riccuioto,judd(even though i believe cousins is their spiritual leader),brad johnson,matthew lloyd,buckley) but he leads the team by example in intensity and training. What im saying is i get your point that he isnt our best player but thats not all that makes a captain.

Like if you look at players like Luke Ball/Nick Riewoldt i will pick out as a major example (injuries granted) but those examples show what a burden the captaincy can be on young players. So i think it a wise choice to remain with him while Hodge/Mitchell/Brown in that order grow towards future captaincy.

If the players want him to be captain there can be no greater endorsement and he is willing to bleed brown and gold i have no problem him being captain(i site wayne campbell as an example of a player who had lingering loyalty questions towards his club even by his own supporters).

Does anyone know if he was appointed for 1 further year only. Now maybe im the only one getting this sense, but do others get the sense that giving richie the captaincy for next year in a way shuts sam mitchells chances of even being captain of hawthorn (sole captain)???? The extra year gives me the sense and i have no factual basis for this that Hodge will be the sole captain in 1 or 2 years. Especially if he can capture his early season form from last year.
 
I am also baffled.

Baffle 1: The Schwab playing group had no idea on leaderhip. So they asked that group to elect a leader.

Baffle 2: Richie was the right choice at the end of 2004 as we had no options. Things have changed. Everitt is gone and Mitchell has matured are two key changes.

Baffle 3: Richie is in or near enough to our best 22. At critical moments of any game I have never seen Richie step up and do a Voss or Carey type act. I am sure he would like to but he cannot take it up a gear he is flat out all the time.

Baffle 4: In a good side the captain is almost redundant. The only reason we talk about it at HFC is we are not a good team but this is also changing.
 

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Binxy said:
Maybe we could try and keep it in this thread.
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No, I think we should have at least 3 new threads on Vandernberg every day.

I mean, posters have so much new to say about it each time.


Davo23












"Are you being sarcastic?"
"I don't know any more ..."






.
 
Heropsychodreamer said:
Yes,

He makes our 22 at the moment. He provides great leadership, both on the field with his aggression but off the field with his attitude towards the club. Everyone respects him... and the players want him to be captain.

I think you should stay in the tiger forum... we dont appreciate people taking swipes at our players.
Click to expand...

That's a valid question...

I think he is still captain because 07 is a devlopment year for us, and Mitchell or Hodge will be even more ready to captain in 08...

The worry with Richie is that he could pontentially not be good enough...but I think it is a low risk decision that should pay off in the long run...

My opinion on Richie has always been that he is all bark and no bite but he does have the right attitude and he's experience is invaluable for the Hawks, and all our senior players are "NOT UNDER PRESSURE" like everyone seems to think they are, until we have experience to replace them.
 
Richie is the captain - end of story.

I really hope he steps up to the plate this season and as a productive one.

I admire the man and his effort. He is the captain of the HFC, is supported by the board and the players and thats good enough for me.

Go Richie, Go Hawks.

Also, I don't see Richmond's captain as a fine example of leadership - can't keep his mouth shut - who can forget his idiocy at their B&F night. :D
 
Lord_Espos said:
Can I start a new thread on Richie??
Click to expand...


Yes, what about something completely different:

"Is Vandenberg in our best 22?"

"Should Vandenberg be captain?"

"When I turn 15 next year, will I finally graduate from Primary school?"


Davo23
 
vanders is not a champion player, but from all reports he's a very classy operator.
in a period where we've sold off many of our experienced players, and we have an extremely young list, it's very easy for a club to lose its culture, and become a bit wayward. crawf is a very hard worker, but loves to play around off the field. while that's an acceptable example for many players, it might give one or two of our youngsters with certain personalities the wrong idea about the culture that we're building at hawthorn.
richie is a true professional - very articulate, very honest, very tough, very disciplined. he's not going to ever captain a premiership, but he's playing a significant role in cementing the culture that will enable our youngsters to maximise their and the club's success over the coming decade. clubs like st kilda, richmond, and fremantle have suffered in the past from having very talented lists that just aren't operating in a professional way, and they missed out on their chances to make a bigger impact. i'm glad that we've chosen a captain for our rebuilding phase that is an astute blue-collar footballer.
mitchell and hodge are looming as the only two possible successors, and i'm sure vanders will get a whisper in the ear when clarkson thinks it's time to put the job in the hands of the next generation.
 

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People highlight mistakes. Richie makes a few mistakes, but becausehe is in a vital role as captain, then are blown way out of proportion. same goes for dawson, playing at FB means mistakes are highlighted on the scoreboard, even if you go to cover a man in a much more dangerous position
 
If we are REALLY being honest here. If Richie was delisted at the end of this season just gone, NOBODY would pick him up.

He falls into the category of "Very handy player who tries his guts out but isn't good enough to play week in week out."
 
Coathanger said:
If we are REALLY being honest here. If Richie was delisted at the end of this season just gone, NOBODY would pick him up.

He falls into the category of "Very handy player who tries his guts out but isn't good enough to play week in week out."
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I cound not disagree more, up to half a dozen clubs would love a tough leader in there team.

Carlton, Essendon, Geelong, Brisbane, Port Adelaide to name a few.
 
he gives a good example of some one who does not stop trying to get the ball persistence is the word he will keep going effort after effort not like some who try once and think oh well i can not get it Richies just keeps going after the ball and like the above says he is a tough as nuts player
 
IMHO if Richie wasn't captain and another player, like say Smith, you'd have to say that next yr, as will Smith, he will be competing hard to hold his spot next season. And as with Smith, as soon as a form slump occurs, it will be a quick decline into the VFL.

No doubt, if we are to play finals in 08 with a hopeful 50/50 yr in 07, the likes of Dawson, Ellis, Dowler, Thorp, Muston, Tuck are crucial inclusions to the existing team structure. They will add, 1 enough KPPs to cover the spine which has been our greatest deficiency and 2 enough midfield pace / run and carry to complement our midfield which is more clearance oriented and needs more outside types.

To do that, the above mentioned names must make an impact, and as with Birchall start to cement a spot in 07. That means players must be dropped.

Which brings us to the argument, who to drop?

Dixon? Smith? Ladson? Ummmm, I'm trying to avoid it but I can't, yes Richie.

Sure experience is important but only when the experience is complemented by the performance. If your kids are hitting targets and improving in leaps and bounds but your captain is turning the footy over, his credibility on field is lost. Perhaps he trains well and speaks / communicates well, thats fine. But he must at least do the team thing well and not put in too many poor games.

On the flip side I agree that Hodge needs to focus on his footy. IMO, in 05 he was at 80% of his full potential and in 06 65%. He has a long way to go and the captaincy may cloud his mind but who knows.

Mitchell is the only successor that comes to mind that has consistenty proven himself and is worthy of captaincy in 07. Having said that, would appointing him captain in 07 undermind a long term captaincy strategy which the club has in mind. Perhaps to make Hodge captain and Mitch vice?

Or is it better to make them both vice this yr, thereby, in an acting role, giving them both onfield leadship roles, whilst their major (Richie) who is captain on paper, is there for appearance sakes, whilst the 2 vices battle it out for supremacy in 08. It might bring out the best in both players. Captains must stand tall under pressure so why not give them both the chance to step up and say, I'm the man for the job.

At the end of the day, I dont believe either player would begrudge the other if they were appointed captain in 08.

In summary, I dont like Richie as a footballer but love his endeavour. I think his days in an emerging list are numbered and the recent appointment of Mitch and Hodge as co-vice captains is the first step in appointing a new captain in the not too distant future.

But first, the stripes must be earned.
 
just a small note , if the players pick richie with the blessing of the coaching staff don,t we respect their decision and get behind him. the culture of brisbane,sydney and west coast is "one in all in" thats how you win a flag not with a flash captian but a team die for each other culture ,have a listen to the LONG term goals the caoches talk about and keep the faith.
 

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bigmaxi said:
just a small note , if the players pick richie with the blessing of the coaching staff don,t we respect their decision and get behind him. the culture of brisbane,sydney and west coast is "one in all in" thats how you win a flag not with a flash captian but a team die for each other culture ,have a listen to the LONG term goals the caoches talk about and keep the faith.
Click to expand...
that is what i say too as this saying goes all for one and one for all!
 
Jex said:
POST OF THE DECADE!!!
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Last time Hawthorn and Essendon played. :thumbsu: :thumbsu: :thumbsu:


HAWTHORN 8.5 16.7 18.8 19.10 (124)
ESSENDON 3.2 6.6 9.14 15.16 (106)
Goals: Hawthorn: J Roughead 4 B Dixon 3 L Franklin 3 R Vandenberg 3 M Williams 2 C Bateman T Clarke S Crawford R Ladson. Essendon: S Lucas 4 A Monfries 3 J Hird 2 M Bolton M McVeigh D Peverill D Rioli B Stanton J Watson.
Best: Hawthorn: L Hodge R Vandenberg S Mitchell S Crawford C Bateman C Brown J Roughead L Franklin. Essendon: J Hird J Watson A Monfries B Stanton R Dyson S Lucas.
Umpires: H Kennedy M Stevic M Avon.
Crowd: 44,275 at Telstra Dome.
 
Richie is by far the best choice right this minute.

Even the players know this and that's why they voted him in - hello, McFly, anybody home McFly.

Yet people keep questioning this like they are some sort of sports pshychologist/club expert. The point is we don't want to push a young player, including Hodgey or Mitch right now. It serves no purpose and it's obvious the playing group don't want them in yet because THEY WOULD HAVE VOTED THAT WAY.

Phew, that let some steam off:). Now please leave this boring Richie thread alone. If his form goes down, he will be dropped and Hodge and Mitch become the automatic captains anyway. Done deal banana peel.
 
Just for the record, can I please add my name to the supporters of Richie Vandenberg. And for completeness, I say that:

1. He is the best leader for 2007
2. He easily deserves his place in the team.


LH86
 

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