Analysis Richmond's run-on style and possible counters ...

[CrowBloke]

This started as a post/reply from another thread, but it's Richmond-specific and I'd like to know what other Crows' supporters (and others) think:

I had commented re last night's Prelim:
At one stage in the 3rd quarter, one of their blokes went up in a marking contest against THREE Cats, and very cleverly tapped it down Martin's throat for a run-in goal. One-vs-three, with Martin 4 metres away running past, and they goaled from it!!
Richmond players catch teams by surprise --- most teams' players try to take possession under pressure and opposition players are tuned-in to that, but not Richmond. They often avoid taking possession. If they can't take clean possession they mongrel it on to a mate, tap it on, punch it on, soccer it on, until someone in black'n'gold takes clean possession. Geelong were left flat-footed by the tactic especially after half-time, which as I recall PAdel. used (kind of) to beat WCE in Perth in the minor round.
Geelong expected Richmond to take possession under pressure, in fact they won contested ball by 20 (I think).
Richmond expected their blokes to keep the ball moving, and knew the ball was coming out somehow, if they ran to space outside the contest.

[Richmond's game style is] quite Hawthorn like.
The Hawks are good at changing the direction of the ball too when they tap it out of a pack which changes a team's set up because instead of being behind or in front of the ball, all of a sudden they are on the side of the ball going a different direction

Yes, and it's unexpected by most oppo players, but totally anticipated by Richmond teammates. Watch them --- they have loose men running wide parallel to the contest, waiting for the scrambled ball to come out.
I've thought a lot about Richmond's willingness to run for each other, run-on, play-on, tap the ball on, their keep it moving forward, forward, forward style.
--- it's anti-possession, if the player is in a tight position and cannot get clean possession. Instead of trying to get possession under pressure and getting tackled/mauled as most teams/players do, they knock it on, forward or out to a player in a better position.
--- while it requires elite running ability, it would save on player wear and tear. I'd like to see numbers on tackles made as opposed to tackles received by Richmond. I'll bet they tackle more than they are tackled, because a player knocking the ball on cannot be tackled and a player getting a knock-on out wide is usually clear and avoids being tackled as well.
--- it's fast, keeps the ball moving, and gains ground 5/10/15 metres at a time, often 2 or 3 times in a row and extremely effective. As Thetrader15 pointed out, it also gets oppo zones and set-ups out of position.

One way to combat it might be to man-up on their fleet-footed outside runners, and not to congest a contest or pressure-pack. Oppo teams who play a slower, running-maul style game will get murdered on the outside by Richmond, who will be off and running while oppo numbers are caught flat where the ball was.
Please comment.

 

[Vhaluus]

who cares, we won't be in premiership contention during the time this Richmond list will be doing its thing.

 

[1991firstgamer]

They work back hard into space
The opposition need to get back there first

Sent from my SM-J730G using Tapatalk

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I think the only way to beat Richmond is to starve them of possesion. Geelong did a pretty good job of this in the first half of the prelim but choked in the second.

 

[GreyCrow]

Have always said you coach on your training days and have a day off on match day. Ironically I do think the AFC train for positional play. Its just happens to be stagnant

I saw that goal and I applauded it. Just game and player awareness.

How to counter it? Drop your defenders 1 line back and have them come to the ball front on. ie meet the loose ball as it comes forward. Slow the play down. Tempo footy.

You must also be ready to counter sling. Dont handball in a small arc when you get the ball. Kick it over their running players. Aim for that space 40m forward. Have EVERY player aware of what you are doing and what you expect of them

 

[CrowBloke]

Geelong did a pretty good job of this in the first half of the prelim but choked in the second.

Was it a 'choke' though? I thought Richmond upped the pressure and their play-on speed, leaving Geelong in their wake.
Another side-effect of Richmond's get-the-ball-moving game --- their own players do that when they cannot get clean possession in 50-50 balls, making it a 100% win when they knock the ball outside to their runners. The more Richmond did that, the less Geelong got clean ball, which frustrated Geelong while Richmond's confidence grew with scoreboard advantage.

 

[CrowBloke]

who cares, we won't be in premiership contention during the time this Richmond list will be doing its thing.

I care, because
1) Richmond have now won the 2017 GF, lost a 2018 PF, and are playing for the Flag next week, which record I'd love the Crows to have/had.
2) I'd like the Crows to beat Richmond, every time they play them.
3) I wouldn't mind if the Crows adopted or even improved upon Richmond's game-plan. Richmond, Brisbane 2001-03 and Geelong/Hawthorn/WCE are worth analysing for their successes.
How about adding something useful or constructive, instead of just slagging off?

 

[CrowBloke]

Have always said you coach on your training days and have a day off on match day. Ironically I do think the AFC train for positional play. Its just happens to be stagnant

I saw that goal and I applauded it. Just game and player awareness.

How to counter it? Drop your defenders 1 line back and have them come to the ball front on. ie meet the loose ball as it comes forward. Slow the play down. Tempo footy.

You must also be ready to counter sling. Dont handball in a small arc when you get the ball. Kick it over their running players. Aim for that space 40m forward. Have EVERY player aware of what you are doing and what you expect of them

Are you being interviewed by Roo/Fagan/Smyth/Pods?
I wish.

 

[Scrogdogg]

Richmond structure around the contest so well. They have options outside at every contest And they are mobile with it. They run and work. There is no positional jogging. They play on and have the ball moving continually. when they are right on their game their pressure from work rate will almost always reduce the opposition to defensive hacking.

I thought Geelong looked so much like the Crows last night it wasn't funny. Slow switching and holding back high bombing kicks and slow ball and player movement is never going to beat the current Richmond.

 

[John Who]

Richmond structure around the contest so well. They have options outside at every contest And they are mobile with it. They run and work. There is no positional jogging. They play on and have the ball moving continually. when they are right on their game their pressure from work rate will almost always reduce the opposition to defensive hacking.

I thought Geelong looked so much like the Crows last night it wasn't funny. Slow switching and holding back high bombing kicks and slow ball and player movement is never going to beat the current Richmond.

It played out similar to the game we played on GF back in 2017 - Geelong/Crows more dominant in first half, then got overran in the second half.
I think the Tigers are simply playing like a champion team, everyone of them is playing on the same page, and it's a very unpredictable style, just full on manic attack and then manic pressure when they don't have possession.

I don't really think they're necessarily the best team by a mile, just that they're gamestyle and mental approach is stronger than the other teams right now. Funnily enough, we've beaten the Tigers at Adelaide Oval in all 3 matches in the last 3 years - thrashing them by 10+ goals back in 2017, and beating them both in 2018 and 2019 in Adelaide, in 2 years of our supposed crapness. The results in the last 3 years in Adelaide against the Tigers to me, suggests:
- the Tigers aren't all that good when playing interstate
- we're not that far off the pace
- likely both in the above

 

[kirky]

It played out similar to the game we played on GF back in 2017 - Geelong/Crows more dominant in first half, then got overran in the second half.
I think the Tigers are simply playing like a champion team, everyone of them is playing on the same page, and it's a very unpredictable style, just full on manic attack and then manic pressure when they don't have possession.

I don't really think they're necessarily the best team by a mile, just that they're gamestyle and mental approach is stronger than the other teams right now. Funnily enough, we've beaten the Tigers at Adelaide Oval in all 3 matches in the last 3 years - thrashing them by 10+ goals back in 2017, and beating them both in 2018 and 2019 in Adelaide, in 2 years of our supposed crapness. The results in the last 3 years in Adelaide against the Tigers to me, suggests:
- the Tigers aren't all that good when playing interstate
- we're not that far off the pace
- likely both in the above

Agree both the Cats and Crows play the slow style of game (well we have the past 2 years) and that fits into Richmond game.

GWS however do play a more frenetic game plan and I reckon that they will account themselves well next week. You can not underestimate that performance at the MCG against 77k Collingwood fans with three of your best players out and losing your captain early in the game. They are a cocky side and will believe that they can do it.

Interesting that we have beaten both Richmond (weakened this year) and GWS over the past 2 years even though their game style hasn't suited us. We just need to get some classy pace into our side, we have the weapons and our defence is pretty solid.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Look at how a player like Houli uses the football once it’s in his hands.

You need players who can win the football, and then use the football. Richmond have both, and sometimes both in the same player (Martin).

Their collective footy IQ is high but they also play to a strict system and know exactly what they have to do to execute it.

That Dusty goal in the 3rd quarter where he roved it out at the back and ran into an open goal... that was D Jarman-esque. He knew where the ball was going, and didn’t bother with the contest in front of him.

You can’t teach that to Josh Jenkins and David Mackay.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Was it a 'choke' though? I thought Richmond upped the pressure and their play-on speed, leaving Geelong in their wake.
Another side-effect of Richmond's get-the-ball-moving game --- their own players do that when they cannot get clean possession in 50-50 balls, making it a 100% win when they knock the ball outside to their runners. The more Richmond did that, the less Geelong got clean ball, which frustrated Geelong while Richmond's confidence grew with scoreboard advantage.

Anytime you lose a prelim when your up by 3 or 4 goals at half time is a choke imo.

I agree with you though. Geelong needed precision kicking to make it work. In the first half they structured up well and were able to to just casually chip the ball up the ground, maintaining possesion. Richmond looked completely useless. I think when the Tigers upped their intensity in the second half, it stopped the Cats from finding easy targets by foot. Once the turnovers started to mount, Tigers were playing the game on their terms.

 

[Scrogdogg]

Agree both the Cats and Crows play the slow style of game (well we have the past 2 years) and that fits into Richmond game.

GWS however do play a more frenetic game plan and I reckon that they will account themselves well next week. You can not underestimate that performance at the MCG against 77k Collingwood fans with three of your best players out and losing your captain early in the game. They are a cocky side and will believe that they can do it.

Interesting that we have beaten both Richmond (weakened this year) and GWS over the past 2 years even though their game style hasn't suited us. We just need to get some classy pace into our side, we have the weapons and our defence is pretty solid.

I hope you are right about GWS frenetics. I know it was wet but They certainly didn't look good when switching the play at half back because they looked Crowesque forward of the ball. Ie. Traffic cone and jogging with a bunch of into 50s being bombs. Still they prevailed with all odds against them, the same sort of odds they will have to overcome next week at the MCG. Fingers crossed.

 

[Marv Merchants]

Trick will be to not them get it on the outside (better said than done I know) and control possession they have a quick but small mosquito fleet and can be beaten in the air so controlling the ball is imperative you really have to play a kick and catch west coast game style to beat them and use their lack of height against them..

 

[Marv Merchants]

I hope you are right about GWS frenetics. I know it was wet but They certainly didn't look good when switching the play at half back because they looked Crowesque forward of the ball. Ie. Traffic cone and jogging with a bunch of into 50s being bombs. Still they prevailed with all odds against them, the same sort of odds they will have to overcome next week at the MCG. Fingers crossed.

Tbh we have a lot of outs too atleast 3 of our best players were out..

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Trick will be to not them get it on the outside (better said than done I know) and control possession they have a quick but small mosquito fleet and can be beaten in the air so controlling the ball is imperative you really have to play a kick and catch west coast game style to beat them and use their lack of height against them..

We tried this in the 2017 GF but most of our talls had terrible games. I sincerely hope you guys can pull it off.

 

[Marv Merchants]

We tried this in the 2017 GF but most of our talls had terrible games. I sincerely hope you guys can pull it off.

cheers yeah I think there was some selection issues with you guys that really didn’t help either and a few players had a real down game they also did their homework on the crows ‘slingshot’ runners like smith (who didn’t play and you could really tell that affected you guys) and they didn’t allow you guys that run off the half back.. the crows tried it with laird but the tuggers knew this and were all over it and for some reason crows never adjusted for this..

 

[Scrogdogg]

Trick will be to not them get it on the outside (better said than done I know) and control possession they have a quick but small mosquito fleet and can be beaten in the air so controlling the ball is imperative you really have to play a kick and catch west coast game style to beat them and use their lack of height against them..

Mebbe. Richmond are top notch with their closure speed to contest and they do seem maximise any turnovers with their kicking efficiency and all round running game.

Aaaah running ! It's what football is all about to me.

 

[Marv Merchants]

Mebbe. Richmond are top notch with their closure speed to contest and they do seem maximise any turnovers with their kicking efficiency and all round running game.

Aaaah running ! It's what football is all about to me.

Keeping the ball off the deck is the secret to beating Richmond do that and your going to go along way in beating them they are always going to try to knock to the deck and that’s when they really go to work prevent them from doing this and you’ve won.. again tho (better said than done)

 

[Elite Crow]

Tbh we have a lot of outs too atleast 3 of our best players were out..

Please win

 

[CrowBloke]

I just read this, published after my original post:

How the new Richmond works

At 21-points down at half-time in a final, the old Richmond would have capitulated, as the Tigers did in those elimination finals of 2015 and 2013 when North Melbourne and Carlton challenged.

www.theage.com.au

"The new Richmond plays with a distinctive style that maximises their assets - speed, clean hands and a confidence in each other.
They knock the ball on, shovel it forward, without necessarily taking possession. Case in point: Riewoldt, who had few touches and was overshadowed by Lynch, still produced the night's most inspired play in their third quarter surge when he spoiled against three Cat defenders, intentionally punching the ball to Dustin Martin, who ran into the open goal."
Richmond do not attack contested ball in equal numbers. There's nearly always at least one man outside a contest waiting for that ball to come out --- somehow --- their way.
Look at it from an oppo player's pov. One second, you're in the contest, about to tackle a (Richmond) bloke who's under pressure to take possession. If you tackle you're gone for htm because next half-second, you're 3-5 metres away from the ball and out of the contest altogether, because he's scrambled the ball out.

 

[CrowBloke]

Richmond looked completely useless. I think when the Tigers upped their intensity in the second half, it stopped the Cats from finding easy targets by foot. Once the turnovers started to mount, Tigers were playing the game on their terms.

Riewoldt said after 1/2 time they had to stop Geelong from marking in their D50, but it was actually all over the ground.
They bring the ball down to the deck, then mongrel it forward time and time again until somebody is out in clean air with the ball.

 

[Marv Merchants]

I just read this, published after my original post:

How the new Richmond works

At 21-points down at half-time in a final, the old Richmond would have capitulated, as the Tigers did in those elimination finals of 2015 and 2013 when North Melbourne and Carlton challenged.

www.theage.com.au

"The new Richmond plays with a distinctive style that maximises their assets - speed, clean hands and a confidence in each other.
They knock the ball on, shovel it forward, without necessarily taking possession. Case in point: Riewoldt, who had few touches and was overshadowed by Lynch, still produced the night's most inspired play in their third quarter surge when he spoiled against three Cat defenders, intentionally punching the ball to Dustin Martin, who ran into the open goal."
Richmond do not attack contested ball in equal numbers. There's nearly always at least one man outside a contest waiting for that ball to come out --- somehow --- their way.
Look at it from an oppo player's pov. One second, you're in the contest, about to tackle a (Richmond) bloke who's under pressure to take possession. If you tackle you're gone for htm because next half-second, you're 3-5 metres away from the ball and out of the contest altogether, because he's scrambled the ball out.

Again, easily accounted for; numbers around the ball, kick and catch, control the ball keep it off the deck, and you win. They are front running pea hearted short people. Keep it above their heads and you win.

Why no one has cottoned on yet is beyond me. They actually want it on the deck cause they are grubs.

We will smash these flogs!

 

[CrowBloke]

Why no one has cottoned on yet is beyond me.

Yep, me too. Is why I started the thread.

Btw, great job in eliminating Eddiewood. I hope your mob gets up.