Preview Rnd 12 - Carlton v Fremantle Sat 15th Aug 8.10PM AEST @ Optus Stadium

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Surely TDK stays in? Fisher awesome game, and I was impressed with the red man.

Not sure you can play Harry McKay and TDK in the same side, at least if Pittonet plays..

 

[kickballfoot]

In - Dow (looked a class above in the practice game in the wet) , Cuningham, McKay

Out - Martin (inj) Gibbons (6 disposals and 1 tackle not good enough), Pittonet (inj/rest)

Back TDK in the ruck against Darcy with Casboult/McKay for support.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

What heightens the frustration of not “playing the kids” is that these underdeveloped players have no real option to develop themselves in 2020 other than “hit and giggle” scratch matches etc. The usual rules don’t apply hence only footy in the 1’s will bring them along. Thus maybe the oldies clinging on just have to make way for them this year (hopefully in the coming weeks when the 8 is out of contention) - it may not seem fair but it’s a Covid reality.

Which kid that is fit deserves to be in the side?? BB played the kids and look where it go us and him.. We are not that side anymore.. We need to be playing to win every game.. its more important than ever that they learn to win. DT is a young in-experianed coach, give him time and I am sure he will learn to react mid game to stem the flow.. But as a whole i would certainly take how we are playing in 2020 over anything i have seen in the 5 years preceding it.

 

[bigm386]

Do yourselves a favour and don’t watch the scratch match highlights.....

I saw Polson stick the first tackle. So on that he should probably get a game over plenty of our senior players

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

In - Dow (looked a class above in the practice game in the wet) , Cuningham, McKay

Out - Martin (inj) Gibbons (6 disposals and 1 tackle not good enough), Pittonet (inj/rest)

Back TDK in the ruck against Darcy with Casboult/McKay for support.

Gibbons has been very good since coming in, but if Fisher can play that medium fwd rotating through the midfield role it leaves him struggling for a position. We also have Cunningham, JSOS, and Jack Martin who can play the same role and hopefully we can move Murphy out of the midfield and he becomes an option there as well.

 

[jimsta10]

Dow looks like he gained a few kegs..

 

[LFTWNG11]

Lose this and another bottom 4 finish is on the cards.

 

[bigm386]

Not sure you can play Harry McKay and TDK in the same side, at least if Pittonet plays..

The only way TDK stays in is if he plays as the number 1 ruck which means Pittonet out or he plays as a forward to goes into the ruck which means Levi out.

I would say Pittonet has to make way and TDK takes the ruck with Levi as backup.

 

[Ald Gardiner]

Which kid that is fit deserves to be in the side?? BB played the kids and look where it go us and him.. We are not that side anymore.. We need to be playing to win every game.. its more important than ever that they learn to win. DT is a young in-experianed coach, give him time and I am sure he will learn to react mid game to stem the flow.. But as a whole i would certainly take how we are playing in 2020 over anything i have seen in the 5 years preceding it.

Read my post carefully - I wasn’t arguing that there were kids deserving of a gig, but for the sake of development, we may have to get them in, later in the year, to either replace struggling oldies (say Murph, Betts Simmo, Ed Curnow) or fringe players who likely won’t be there holding up the cup (Newnes, Cuners etc).

 

[seablues]

A little bit surprised by the amount of (for a want of a better word) disappointment in our coaching.
We literally only had Cripps in our midfield who would be a better player then his opponent, that includes the ruck, two wings and midfield. Three proven forwards with one getting injured early to take us down to two and another one being Betts who’s nearly 34 and on his last legs. Supported by a very good backline.
We were playing the premiership favourites who weren’t playing poorly at all, we are seriously out gunned yet we pushed them for the majority of the game. I thought it was a huge effort and we must be doing something right for them not to destroy us.

I think you are underestimating our side. With a bit of luck we could have easily had another couple of wins under our belt including the top of the ladder favourites. We were well in front and playing good footy and the only thing that saved them was our poor kicking for goal and some inexcusable decisions. This could be an extremely wasteful year for us because the way I see it this should be the year we make a steep incline.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I think you are underestimating our side. With a bit of luck we could have easily had another couple of wins under our belt including the top of the ladder favourites. We were well in front and playing good footy and the only thing that saved them was our poor kicking for goal and some inexcusable decisions. This could be an extremely wasteful year for us because the way I see it this should be the year we make a steep incline.

I agree that we could’ve had another couple of wins without too much luck and that’s why I think we are playing well.
If those two sides were merged on the weekend without looking too closely I would imagine we would have about 5 to their 17 make it. They were clearly more talented then us. We have so many players who are nearly there but not yet hence why we are losing more then we are winning.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I think you are underestimating our side. With a bit of luck we could have easily had another couple of wins under our belt including the top of the ladder favourites. We were well in front and playing good footy and the only thing that saved them was our poor kicking for goal and some inexcusable decisions. This could be an extremely wasteful year for us because the way I see it this should be the year we make a steep incline.

This 100% if you look at our losses this year..

Round 1 - Pre Covid, against the reigning premiers and we played well after giving them a 5 goal head start, didnt get blown off the park like most expected and simply beaten by a better side.
Round 2 - Scoreless 1st quarter against the Dees, lost by a point when we had multiple chances to win the game.
Round 5 - Loss against the saints and were outplayed and out coached.. Saints form is franked and they are a good side.
Round 7 - Port, after the siren heartbreaker.. no doubt we should have won this game and Ports are currently the best team in it.
Round 9 - Hawks, were 5 goals up and in control... then NFI what happened.. horrendous loss
Round 10 - Controlled the game and completely outplayed the premiership favourites at home and were then ran over the top by a hungry, experianced and polished outfit who smelt blood. Had our best 3 key forwards out.. can through JSOS in to make that 4 of our best 5.. Jack Martin to make it 5 of our top 6..

Of all these it is only the last half against the Hawks and the loss against the Saints which i feel we were poor and completely outplayed.

 

[windows1]

I thought Dow looked sensational in the scratch match. A bit surprised he’s not being pumped up more. His ability to take half volleys at pace and snap his body into free space is absolutely top shelf. Top top shelf. We should all be excited about his return. His kicking continues to look better and better technically. Endurance will remain the only material issue.

He frankly reminded me of Cotchin his half volley takes were that good. He is a massive upgrade on Kennedy at centre bounces. I REALLY want to see Kennedy tried consistently at half forward. His marking and kicking for goal are a treat.

Marchy was fine and all but (a) didn’t do anyhting that made me think ‘wow’ unlike Paddy and (b) no way does he come in after one game.

 

[james Dean]

I think you are underestimating our side. With a bit of luck we could have easily had another couple of wins under our belt including the top of the ladder favourites. We were well in front and playing good footy and the only thing that saved them was our poor kicking for goal and some inexcusable decisions. This could be an extremely wasteful year for us because the way I see it this should be the year we make a steep incline.

The silver lining is that we still have Adelaide, Freo, GC and Sydney still to come, All winnable games.

Get an upset win over Collingwood and GWS and finals is still possible. Can’t drop anymore 50/50s though.

Highly unlikely but possible

 

[reg_lower91]

OUT: Martin (inj), Pitt (inj/managed), Murphy (managed), Betts (Managed)

INS: Gov, H, Cunners, (assuming they are fit) Dow.

Would be tempted LOB for Newnes and I think Cripps will need to be "managed" as well either this week or prob against GC in the NT.

Can’t disagree with.

Marchbank needs more match fitness IMO although I’m saying this in general terms Without any knowledge of his fitness base.

Next week Marchbank comes in for SOS I think.

Gibbons in to the midfield for Murphy.

 

[Own The Future]

I thought Dow looked sensational in the scratch match. A bit surprised he’s not being pumped up more. His ability to take half volleys at pace and snap his body into free space is absolutely top shelf. Top top shelf. We should all be excited about his return. His kicking continues to look better and better technically. Endurance will remain the only material issue.

He frankly reminded me of Cotchin his half volley takes were that good. He is a massive upgrade on Kennedy at centre bounces. I REALLY want to see Kennedy tried consistently at half forward. His marking and kicking for goal are a treat.

Marchy was fine and all but (a) didn’t do anyhting that made me think ‘wow’ unlike Paddy and (b) no way does he come in after one game.

Just watched it - and totally agree.
I know a 12 v 12 scratch match is a far cry from a proper AFL game, but he looks like a different player from the one I saw last year.
As you said, his cleanliness below the knees in the wet was a standout. I’m no expert on kicking mechanics, but he looks - from that small amount of vision - to have lowered his ball drop. So many of his clangers last year came from dropping the ball from about hip height. He appears to be guiding the ball to his boot a lot more, and I’m impressed. His signature sidesteps and baulks were there too.
Very keen to see him back in - surely health permitting he is in? At the very least as a straight swap for Martin.

 

[FRUMPY]

With fisher coming in a doing well I don't think cunners comes straight back in as fisher taken his role. Unless they give Eddie a rest.

Teague sounded pretty keen to get dow in so that may be a change, maybe for cotrell (even though I thought he was alright).

If one of McKay or gov are ready then dekoning probably makes way (unless pittonet finger is bad enough to miss a game). I don't think they'd drop pittonet ahead of dekoning.

Looking at the side there are a few iuts who will want their spots back and tough to see who gets dropped. Good problem to have.

Blokes out through injury who would want back in - McKay, gov, cunners, dow, marchy etc

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[FRUMPY]

The silver lining is that we still have Adelaide, Freo, GC and Sydney still to come, All winnable games.

Get an upset win over Collingwood and GWS and finals is still possible. Can’t drop anymore 50/50s though.

Highly unlikely but possible

Its what shits me with this side though, we come out and compete and almost outplay teams like port and wce and then we turn up and play like s**t against the hawks, demons etc.

Gotta start turning into a club that wins the games they are supposed to win (crowd, Freo, swans etc). I'm sure we'll win a couple but I wont hold my breath for all of them.

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[Own The Future]

Its what shits me with this side though, we come out and compete and almost outplay teams like port and wce and then we turn up and play like sh*t against the hawks, demons etc.

Gotta start turning into a club that wins the games they are supposed to win (crowd, Freo, swans etc). I'm sure we'll win a couple but I wont hold my breath for all of them.

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The last few years as we’ve improved for some reason we do not cope well when we are favourites.
The Hawthorn game was a prime example.
All tipsters picked us, we were $1.60 favourites.
Couple that with Hawthorn (and Clarko) being bagged in the media all week, you just knew they’d be desperate.
And I just knew we’d lose.
When we kicked the first 5 goals, I’d never been happier to be wrong.
We all know what happened next.
I hope one day soon we can cope with being favourites, and don’t get ahead of ourselves when the media speak glowingly about us.

 

[LanceRomance]

If you are going to rotate senior players in the list you do one at a time.

It's a 6 day break as I it might not be necessary this week.

I would think Dow in for Martin (due the injury to his baby cow) as the only real change.

Guessing that Pittonet will need scans on his hand and wouldn't be surprised if he misses. Just not sure what we do to replace him? Marchbank with Cas as back up ruck? Or Jones?

 

[gbatman]

We played really well against a top side and we are coming off a 9 day break so no need to rest players I would think.

Hard to get a gauge from the scratch match as it's a long way away from an AFL game. That being said we need to get Dow into the team soon and see what he can do. He's a high draft pick who is at an age where he should be playing some good footy. Having said that he's missed a bit so probably not this game but soon.

Fremantle aren't much good and we should win easily but any side can beat you if you don't turn up.

B: Plowman Weitering Simpson
HB: Docherty Jones SPS
C: Walsh Setterfield Murphy
HF: Betts McKay Owies
F: McGovern Casboult Fisher
OB: Pittonett Cripps Curnow
IC: Williamson Newnes Kennedy Cottrell

IN
McKay - Obvious in.
McGovern - Obvious in.
Owies - Give Cuningham another week off, deserves a chance, replaces Martin. If Cuningham does train well then probably can't leave him out.

OUT
Martin - Injured unfortunately.
TDK - Didn't do enough with the other two big guys back.
Gibbons - Just been a bit below average of late. Not sure we can keep ignoring Owies who always kicks goals.

Think we need to start playing some young guys to see what they can do. Not all at once but just start filtering them through.

 

[azlou]

Was about to post something very similar.

I know 12 v 12 in wet conditions in a weird season provide a lot of legitimate excuses as to the quality.... but that was the HIGHLIGHTS.

It essentially consists entirely of our blokes kicking long, and either Lang or Owies running into an open goal with no pressure. I can’t see how this can be used as a basis for selection

What I took out of it was Dow weighting some nice passes under no pressure but still his kicking action and ball drop have improved that was my highlight

 

[Blue__Balls]

I like that some of the trademark elements of Dow's game were on show, but I'm hesitant to bring him in to play in the guts given that he's been getting that form in a bastardisation of the game with grounds 40m shorter or 30m narrower than normal, with no wingers, and some really ordinary forward structures.

Still feel the smart move is to be a little more conservative with him. Let him continue to build some token form in the scratch matches, keep pushing him to work defensively as well as offensively, give him another full preseason to add to his (already improved) frame. Unleash him next year against the Tigers when he has a man's body and enough preparation to be able to play within AFL structures.

I want him in when he's physically and mentally ready to dominate. I don't think that's far away, either. If we're going to put senior development time into anyone, make it LOB who can't even play his role in the reserves given that position has been scratched. Walsh on ball for a run of games, LOB onto the wing. Or hell, chuck Marchy on a wing for a bit if he's fit, might help our ability to play down the line seeing as our opposition seem realise within 1-2 quarters that we just want to keep playing the corridor and go to water when that's denied us.

 

[Michael Jezz]

What heightens the frustration of not “playing the kids” is that these underdeveloped players have no real option to develop themselves in 2020 other than “hit and giggle” scratch matches etc. The usual rules don’t apply hence only footy in the 1’s will bring them along. Thus maybe the oldies clinging on just have to make way for them this year (hopefully in the coming weeks when the 8 is out of contention) - it may not seem fair but it’s a Covid reality.

The Hawthorn game revealed we needed to prepare for the future. The MC went bang with TDK, Cottrell and fish as a small forward. Not bad for a weeks work. Now let's wait for the next chapter

 

[KnightsBlue]

Not sure you can play Harry McKay and TDK in the same side, at least if Pittonet plays..

Moore and mckay in the same team didnt work. But that was moore just not up to it yet. I think we would see different results with mckay and tdk playing