Autopsy ROAST, TOAST & CHANGES V ST KILDA

[partycorolla]

We haven't landed a big name since Nathan Brown in 2004.

Not because we aren't a destination club. It's because we refuse to spend overs unless they are a nobody

 

[Neen]

Even the HUN mentioned it
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...y/news-story/a77f3edd68556dc2575c50b0712a27d0

Very surprised the media picked up on it. We are not Norf, Dogs or colonwood. Funny thing is, everyone at the ground knew it was 50M - TWICE.

I completely understand that we should not have allowed the cats back into the game, but you look at the Hawkins' throw, the soft free to Taylor, Jack being held off the ball, Lloyd tackled with a headlock by Duckwood and the non 50M penalty in the last minute.. Yep, Umpires NEVER affect the result of footy games...

 

[Neen]

Couldn't disagree more on this one. At no stage did Astbury ever look at the ball... the whole time it was in flight, which you MUST do or you give away the free kick. Free kick every day of the week. If he had of, he could have achieved exactly what he did without giving the free kick away. Just needed to look. Didn't make many mistakes imo Astbury but that was just a panic moment, which was what everyone else was doing.

So why pay the ONLY "chopping the arms" 35 meters out in front of goal in the dying minutes. Why not pay the same indiscretion against Henderson on Jack (twice) in the second quarter, and Taylor on vickery ?

It was a BS free kick, paid by an umpire that became swept up in the moment and paid a rubbish free. Where was the umpire when Hawkins threw to ball to Motlop minutes earlier ?

 

[Caveman68]

Wow...pathetic really...but they will hold their spots...kids can pay for the loss instead

I'd be shocked if Ellis or Grigg ever get dropped. Not sure they ever have.

 

[partycorolla]

Well that explains your sensitivity to those useless pricks in green getting called for being ******* useless. I don't expect perfection but I do expect at least competence at the top level and the last two weeks have been appalling. In fact I think the overall standard of umpiring is getting worse.

For what it's worth, in my book being 'deluded' would be losing a game by 5 goals and saying the umpires cost us the game. We lost by 4 measly points. That's just one piss weak decision.

Where was the free for Riewoldt. The bullshit chopped hands decision at the other end. The geelong player in the midfield running about 20m and not being pinged. The Richmond player being dumped into the ground with both hands and no free earlier in the game. What about the classic one in the 3rd where Grimes (I think it was) kicked out from the back pocket and called touched when the geelong player was outside the boundary line when he touched it. It should have been either play on ala the famous Richo brain fade or it he should have been called back to kick over the mark.

I said in my first post that we choked but we lost by 4 points and there was at least 12 points missed due to incompetence.

I agree the standard of umpiring is down in the last few years but I don't think it is entirely their fault. The rules of the game committee keep tinkering with the rules trying to make it 'easier' to umpire. They just make it harder.... An umpire needs to umpire based on interpretation. There will be differences.... just like opinions on here.

The hands in the back rule (the KB rule) is a great example. The rule used to pay a free kick if you pushed. Now you can push but not with your hands.... If you misread the flight of the ball and push back hard enough and the defender who has read the flight better, rests his hand in your back it's a free kick to the idiot who mis-judged the ball.

Nope, the rules are consistently changed by those who have never had to adjudicate them.... they have no idea. At least they canvass the idea of umpires (in the last couple of years) about them but they know better

I learned as a player both before and after I played footy (and numerous other sports) that the destiny of the game was controlled by the actions of players. There were mistakes made in this game by umpires and there are in most games but rest assured the players would love to run at anywhere near the efficiency rate that umpires do. It's easy as a one-eyed supporter to see the ones that we feel robbed by but just as many happen the other way most of the time.

The sad truth is that the only reason we were in the game was because Geelong didn't really give a crap for 3 qtrs..... but if it makes you feel better blame the guys that had not one iota of difference to us actually getting our hands on the pill.... it'd be weak and ill-informed and exactly the sort of thing you'd get stuck into supporters of the opposition for saying after we won the game but hey... whatever works for you Me, I'm happy knowing we lost because we were not the best team that day (by any reasonable measure).

 

[Caveman68]

Couldn't disagree more on this one. At no stage did Astbury ever look at the ball... the whole time it was in flight, which you MUST do or you give away the free kick. Free kick every day of the week. If he had of, he could have achieved exactly what he did without giving the free kick away. Just needed to look. Didn't make many mistakes imo Astbury but that was just a panic moment, which was what everyone else was doing.

If that's a free the code is in trouble. I was 50 m away and grimes did everything you would want a defender to do.

 

[partycorolla]

So why pay the ONLY "chopping the arms" 35 meters out in front of goal in the dying minutes. Why not pay the same indiscretion against Henderson on Jack (twice) in the second quarter, and Taylor on vickery ?

It was a BS free kick, paid by an umpire that became swept up in the moment and paid a rubbish free. Where was the umpire when Hawkins threw to ball to Motlop minutes earlier ?

In all honesty, he probably gets the benefit of the doubt if he looks at the pill instead of focusing solely on Taylor.... Umpires don't mean to stuff up (except against the Pies in the first half - that seemed deliberate to me) but they do sometimes.

Dangerfield had his head ripped off at one point and we turned it over and it led to a scoring opportunity but no-one is whinging about that....

Face facts, we have far bigger problems at RFC than the umpires in a round 21 game.... Stop looking for scapegoats.

The football department needs to be better. Much better. Then we can compete in games and not leave our fate to the men in green.

 

[partycorolla]

If that's a free the code is in trouble. I was 50 m away and grimes did everything you would want a defender to do.

I was 50 metres away as well and he never ever ever looked at the ball. That has been a free kick for a long time.... since I started umpiring in 1995. The fact that people don't understand basic stuff like this is the reason umpires cop so much stuff. Players don't know the rules so why would fans? Mitch Robinson punched the ball straight over the goal line from a ball up in the 2013 elim final. Obvious free kick yet he didn't know. Now he isn't the smartest bloke but he is a professional athlete. Listen to Jordan Lewis, JR, Bob Murphy and co speak...they often don't know the intricacies of the rules. Rules not made by umpires mind you, made by the AFL committees made up almost exclusively of former players....

In fact it's the exact reason Varcoe didn't give a free kick away when he decapitated Hunt in last weeks game.... he had his eyes on the ball despite knowing what he was going to do. Astbury had time to look at the ball and still crash the body, then it would have been play on. If he wants advice on how to do it, he just needs to ask Rance.

 

[RogerDean]

I think you can color this anyway you like it but there have been some woeful decisions made my umpires in the last two matches. I cant recall such obvious mistakes being made. I'm not one to complain about umpiring but I think even the Collingwood supporters last week would have every right to feel aggrieved. No matter whether the leagues makes it tricky for umpires or whether Geelong should have some dubious ones paid in their favour, or whatever way you want to justify it...when the heat was on at the end of the last quarter, the umpires felt the pressure and didn't make the right calls.

In all honesty, he probably gets the benefit of the doubt if he looks at the pill instead of focusing solely on Taylor.... Umpires don't mean to stuff up (except against the Pies in the first half - that seemed deliberate to me) but they do sometimes.

Dangerfield had his head ripped off at one point and we turned it over and it led to a scoring opportunity but no-one is whinging about that....

Face facts, we have far bigger problems at RFC than the umpires in a round 21 game.... Stop looking for scapegoats.

The football department needs to be better. Much better. Then we can compete in games and not leave our fate to the men in green.

 

[Caveman68]

I was 50 metres away as well and he never ever ever looked at the ball. That has been a free kick for a long time.... since I started umpiring in 1995. The fact that people don't understand basic stuff like this is the reason umpires cop so much stuff. Players don't know the rules so why would fans? Mitch Robinson punched the ball straight over the goal line from a ball up in the 2013 elim final. Obvious free kick yet he didn't know. Now he isn't the smartest bloke but he is a professional athlete. Listen to Jordan Lewis, JR, Bob Murphy and co speak...they often don't know the intricacies of the rules. Rules not made by umpires mind you, made by the AFL committees made up almost exclusively of former players....

In fact it's the exact reason Varcoe didn't give a free kick away when he decapitated Hunt in last weeks game.... he had his eyes on the ball despite knowing what he was going to do. Astbury had time to look at the ball and still crash the body, then it would have been play on. If he wants advice on how to do it, he just needs to ask Rance.

Grimes didn't chop the arms, didn't push Taylor. Contact was made with his body and nothing else. The defender needs to look at his opponent and I disagree with you that he never looked at the ball. My original point was that if this is a free we need to put bibs on them.

 

[partycorolla]

I think you can color this anyway you like it but there have been some woeful decisions made my umpires in the last two matches. I cant recall such obvious mistakes being made. I'm not one to complain about umpiring but I think even the Collingwood supporters last week would have every right to feel aggrieved. No matter whether the leagues makes it tricky for umpires or whether Geelong should have some dubious ones paid in their favour, or whatever way you want to justify it...when the heat was on at the end of the last quarter, the umpires felt the pressure and didn't make the right calls.

I don't think I suggested that there haven't been bad decisions. If you think that poor decisions by umpires are more costly or numerous than those made by players then you go on and live in ignorant bliss. Ben Lennon made 3 mistakes that each cost us a scoring opportunity in the last quarter. 3 goals and we win. In fact maybe 1 goal and we win....

Players are the ones who win or lose games....

 

[partycorolla]

Grimes didn't chop the arms, didn't push Taylor. Contact was made with his body and nothing else. The defender needs to look at his opponent and I disagree with you that he never looked at the ball. My original point was that if this is a free we need to put bibs on them.

It was Astbury. He never looked at the ball.... not once. he didn't live and he sure didn't in the replay. He was racing to get there because he had so much ground to make up...

Oh and for the last time.... umpires don't make the rules. They are made up by former players.... so get stuck into them. The umpires pay what they are told to (they do make mistakes). More than a few of them don't agree with a number of the rules and interpretations but they have to pay them.... regardless of which bald Tiger great made them up.

 

[Caveman68]

It was Astbury. He never looked at the ball.... not once. he didn't live and he sure didn't in the replay. He was racing to get there because he had so much ground to make up...

Oh and for the last time.... umpires don't make the rules. They are made up by former players.... so get stuck into them. The umpires pay what they are told to (they do make mistakes). More than a few of them don't agree with a number of the rules and interpretations but they have to pay them.... regardless of which bald Tiger great made them up.

Sorry Astbury. Long day. I didn't say umps make the rules. It's just another shit rule that is hard to officiate so as an umpire it must make it hard for you. Imo it was a great spoil from the position he was in. There would be another 50 similar instances like this one that don't end up in a free each game.

 

[partycorolla]

Sorry Astbury. Long day. I didn't say umps make the rules. It's just another shit rule that is hard to officiate so as an umpire it must make it hard for you. Imo it was a great spoil from the position he was in. There would be another 50 similar instances like this one that don't end up in a free each game.

Agree to disagree on that particular incident. I see it as a free kick every day and would go apeshit if JR didn't get a similar one paid. I just think he could have achieved the exact same thing while looking over his shoulder at the ball coming.... I don't umpire much any more.... like alcohol too much

 

[Bazzar]

In: Marcon Menadue Castagna Elton Lambert
Out: Hunt Bellis Grigg Vickery Drummond

Why Grigg?

 

[_Wang_]

Steady as she goes guys, we are tracking beautifully

#our4walls

#eco

 

[Achilles Heel]

I only saw the 2nd half.
Correct me if Im wrong but did I see Andrew Moore playing in the ruck?
WHY ISNT TYRONE RUCKING???

He is so important to us on the lead couldn't spare for the ruck

 

[Achilles Heel]

Spot on .. he doesn't jump and he doesn't compete.
This nonsense of giving Hampson 'a chop out in the ruck' and giving Maric 'a chop out in the ruck' is the greatest myths perpetuated by the RFC in its history.
McBean offers more as a back-up ruckamn.
This says it all .... Vickery 0 hit outs; Shaun Grigg 1 hit out.
People need to stop making excuses for this guy 130-odd games into his career.

To be fair Grigg was recruited as a ruckman

 

[RogerDean]

I don't think I suggested that there haven't been bad decisions. If you think that poor decisions by umpires are more costly or numerous than those made by players then you go on and live in ignorant bliss. Ben Lennon made 3 mistakes that each cost us a scoring opportunity in the last quarter. 3 goals and we win. In fact maybe 1 goal and we win....

Players are the ones who win or lose games....

Oh sorry... but it seemed to me that you were making excuses for their mistakes and justifying it because players make mistakes.

 

[theflea]

What has happened to shed?? Was awesome last year so bad. I dont get it..

Just cant impose himself on a contest by himself.

 

[tropicaltiger]

ireckon the astsbury free was probably there, a bit stiff as many probables werenot paid to us in the last.

 

[partycorolla]

Oh sorry... but it seemed to me that you were making excuses for their mistakes and justifying it because players make mistakes.

No excuses for their mistakes, just like there are none for players.... other than the fact they are all human.

All humans make mistakes.... and will continue to do so. In terms of umpiring, the more black and white the laws of the game committee try to make it, the greyer the interpretation will become.

 

[Helen Wheels]

No excuses for their mistakes, just like there are none for players.... other than the fact they are all human.

All humans make mistakes.... and will continue to do so. In terms of umpiring, the more black and white the laws of the game committee try to make it, the greyer the interpretation will become.

Footy fans of all persuasions have always agreed that lack of consistency in umpiring pisses them off more than anything.
The "deliberate" rule is tough to enforce and we became acutely aware in Round 2 of how crucial an umpire's ruling can be.
"Incorrect disposal" is arbitrarily adjudicated from one incident in a game to another. No consistency there, even within the one game.
"High tackles"? The application of this rule is patchy at best.

 

[JazMac]

Me, I'm happy knowing we lost because we were not the best team that day (by any reasonable measure).

Yes, it does seem that you are happy to be able to say that. and you will go on and on and on saying it because you like saying it. And you go on and on about the decision that you think was correct - but belittle the arguments (& the posters) of other decisions that went against us that were definitely wrong. But hey, whatever rocks your boat.

I am p***ed off that so many of the players dropped their bundles and also p***ed off that the umpires made so many mistakes that went against us. Without those umpiring mistakes we would have won - because of our first 3 quarters and despite our last qtr.

 

[tigerdan]

I agree the standard of umpiring is down in the last few years but I don't think it is entirely their fault. The rules of the game committee keep tinkering with the rules trying to make it 'easier' to umpire. They just make it harder.... An umpire needs to umpire based on interpretation. There will be differences.... just like opinions on here.

The hands in the back rule (the KB rule) is a great example. The rule used to pay a free kick if you pushed. Now you can push but not with your hands.... If you misread the flight of the ball and push back hard enough and the defender who has read the flight better, rests his hand in your back it's a free kick to the idiot who mis-judged the ball.

Nope, the rules are consistently changed by those who have never had to adjudicate them.... they have no idea. At least they canvass the idea of umpires (in the last couple of years) about them but they know better

I learned as a player both before and after I played footy (and numerous other sports) that the destiny of the game was controlled by the actions of players. There were mistakes made in this game by umpires and there are in most games but rest assured the players would love to run at anywhere near the efficiency rate that umpires do. It's easy as a one-eyed supporter to see the ones that we feel robbed by but just as many happen the other way most of the time.

The sad truth is that the only reason we were in the game was because Geelong didn't really give a crap for 3 qtrs..... but if it makes you feel better blame the guys that had not one iota of difference to us actually getting our hands on the pill.... it'd be weak and ill-informed and exactly the sort of thing you'd get stuck into supporters of the opposition for saying after we won the game but hey... whatever works for you Me, I'm happy knowing we lost because we were not the best team that day (by any reasonable measure).

Mate you are a good poster so I am not going to argue the point any further. I disagree that the umpires don't have a say in the destiny of the game. With respect that's not borne out by the facts over time. Everyone makes mistakes, there is no shame in admitting that. The umpires make mistakes every game but in this case it cost us. Sure we choked (as I already said) but you only need one wrong decision to overturn that 4 point margin. I saw quite a few in that last quarter (including that Riewoldt non-free that you mentioned). Note that I never blamed the umpires for us choking.

We all get defensive when members of our own fraternity are attacked, but in this case I think the criticism is warranted. I come from a work background where you are given a fair go but if you **** up you get run off and you don't get allowed back. Maybe it makes me a bit hair trigger on such things, but I find it hard to tolerate ineptitude these days.