Rookie Performances

[Crows4Flag]

Basically just want to get people thinking about this.

Does anybody else think that the hype over the performances of our rookies is getting overshadowed by the glimpses of magic and the excitement of having the best bunch of kids we've had in a long time.

As an example i dont think Petrenko contributes enough through the whole game such as Rich is doing as Brisbane to justify the hype. I suspect that members of this board though will praise his 2 goal game with 3 decent tackles even though he only had nine touches.

I appreciate this is down to game time and also its great for their experience but basically i think performances are being overhyped.

Thoughts?

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Basically just want to get people thinking about this.

Does anybody else think that the hype over the performances of our rookies is getting overshadowed by the glimpses of magic and the excitement of having the best bunch of kids we've had in a long time.

As an example i dont think Petrenko contributes enough through the whole game such as Rich is doing as Brisbane to justify the hype. I suspect that members of this board though will praise his 2 goal game with 3 decent tackles even though he only had nine touches.

I appreciate this is down to game time and also its great for their experience but basically i think performances are being overhyped.

Thoughts?

Couple points,

1. Rich is playing more game time then Petrenko
2. Rich was in and out of the game tonight
3. Petrenko was fantastic tonight when he moved forward, his value was his defensive pressure which resulted incouple of goals
4. Players like Otten has been as consistent as Rich

All in all I believe most supports understand that until players get 50 games of experience they will be up and down, however I am not sure that our game plan is providing the best stage for the likes of Dangerfield and Walker to show there attacking instinct

 

[SydCrow]

Petrenko is the next Johncock. The more game time he gets the better he will be. His attack on the footy is fanatical.

Otten has been excellent. Already looks like an old timer. Once he builds a bit more body confidence he will be even better.

Walker needs to find a way to get into the game. Laying a few (one?) tackles might be a way to start.

Dangerfield looks the goods. I'd like to see him take players on more, rather than look for the sideways handball. But he has only played 8 games.

Cook has shown glimpses - pace and leap and run.

These guys are the future. Let's judge them at the end of the season, or even more relevantly, 10 games into next year. If we can't get excited about them, it's time to hang up the BF boots.

 

[Crows4Flag]

Couple points,

1. Rich is playing more game time then Petrenko
2. Rich was in and out of the game tonight
3. Petrenko was fantastic tonight when he moved forward, his value was his defensive pressure which resulted incouple of goals
4. Players like Otten has been as consistent as Rich

All in all I believe most supports understand that until players get 50 games of experience they will be up and down, however I am not sure that our game plan is providing the best stage for the likes of Dangerfield and Walker to show there attacking instinct

Ok fair enough points. His defensive pressure was 3 tackles that did result in goals which was great but i think ok so he did that what else did he do. Not much.

Otten isnt as much as the other four as he already plays like hes 24

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Ok fair enough points. His defensive pressure was 3 tackles that did result in goals which was great but i think ok so he did that what else did he do. Not much.

Otten isnt as much as the other four as he already plays like hes 24

kicking 2 of our 12 goals and his tackling did not make him our worst by a long shot

 

[Crows4Flag]

Didnt say he was our worst. But definately on that side of the scale

 

[cmndstab]

Honestly, I thought that was Petrenko's best game so far.


Most of us don't think our rookies are quite there yet (other than Otten). Dangerfield is close, Walker looks like he could arrive at any moment, but Cook and Petrenko are still a long way off being ready. However, they ferociously attack the ball and the man and provide a real spark for us. I think most intelligent supporters realise that they are doing well already and will end up as very good players for the club.

 

[Crows4Flag]

Honestly, I thought that was Petrenko's best game so far.


Most of us don't think our rookies are quite there yet (other than Otten). Dangerfield is close, Walker looks like he could arrive at any moment, but Cook and Petrenko are still a long way off being ready. However, they ferociously attack the ball and the man and provide a real spark for us. I think most intelligent supporters realise that they are doing well already and will end up as very good players for the club.

If thats referring to me then i think you may have misread the OP. Im just saying i dont think they are having the influence on games that they seem to be getting acknowledged for due to the odd chase down or freakish goal etc

 

[Stiffy_18]

If thats referring to me then i think you may have misread the OP. Im just saying i dont think they are having the influence on games that they seem to be getting acknowledged for due to the odd chase down or freakish goal etc

For the most part I agree but I think its got to be balanced up by the expectations.

For example, I thought when Petrenko went forward tonight he provided a spark. Kicked a couple of goals, set up a couple of nice plays and actually laid some very good tackles which is more than most of his team mates have managed.

Dangerfield has been very quiet since the Freo game. Last week in the first quarter he was great (had 7 touches, 3 or 4 contested) but then dropped out of it. Tonight, he did a couple great things that won't show on the stat sheet. Michael Doughty kicked a goal thanks to Dangerfield making a contest against 2-3 Port players and directing the ball in Doughty's path. He went forward in the last quarter and kicked 2 goals. So really, I don't think you can ask too much more from a kid playing in the first showdown.

Otten was once again very good and he is consistently good week in week out. He still needs to get stronger but I think he is the most consistent and best of the rookies this year.

Myke Cook shows flashes but not enough.

Walker is hot and cold and doesn't work anywhere near enough both defensively and offensively. I think this might be due to the tank.

I think people's epxectations need to be realistic. Tonight Walker had the dirtiest night of the kids but I thought Otten and Petrenko were very good contributors.

 

[cmndstab]

If thats referring to me then i think you may have misread the OP. Im just saying i dont think they are having the influence on games that they seem to be getting acknowledged for due to the odd chase down or freakish goal etc

No, I wasn't. I was more referring to the fact that some people think they are there already. They're clearly not, other than Otten, who looks like he's been there for years.

 

[jackster83]

Otten - will be a 200+ game player (hopefully for the AFC). So poised for his age, and he loves to take them on. Lenny Hayes like.

Petrenko - doesn't get huge numbers but isn't getting a lot of TOG. Has the best attitude in the whole team and is one of the few blokes who work hard when they don't have the ball. Have faith in J-Pet, he will be a beauty.

Walker - could be the next Modra or Fevola, and is second on our goal kicking table, but needs to learn a lot about making a contest (even when you know you can't mark it) as well as chasing. Making him our focal point at 18 is simply expecting too much of him. Could be dropped after this week but should play AFL for the majority of the year.

Dangerfield - does some nice things (seems to start games well) but still needs to build his tank. I wouldn't mind him playing a bit on the HBF, to provide a bit of run and dash coming out of the backline (Jason Gram style).

Cook is the hardest to judge as he is not getting much TOG and is still skinny. He runs a bit like Nick Gill but his kicking is okay. Symes or Knights really should have played instead of the raw Cookie Monster tonight but he should improve.

Mackay (although not really a rookie) needs a rest in the SANFL. Has more polish than most but looks a bit tired. Is making uncharacteristic fumbles, but class players don't play many bad games in a row.

 

[cmndstab]

Actually I'd forgotten about Mackay, but he really does seem to be struggling. Does good things when he gets the ball but just hasn't been doing so often enough.


Cook bemuses me. He seems to often stuff things up, but then pulls out something miraculous to make up for the error. Often he turns the ball over, then dives into the player and wins the ball back, or causes a stoppage. He's got some serious talent but he's clearly at least a year away from being a player. He's got a decent sized body though and, with apologies to Dangerfield and Petrenko, is probably the quickest guy in our team. He could be anything - brilliant or bust - but his attitude to the contest is probably the thing that will ensure he makes it.

 

[Drummond]

Basically just want to get people thinking about this.

Does anybody else think that the hype over the performances of our rookies is getting overshadowed by the glimpses of magic and the excitement of having the best bunch of kids we've had in a long time.

As an example i dont think Petrenko contributes enough through the whole game such as Rich is doing as Brisbane to justify the hype. I suspect that members of this board though will praise his 2 goal game with 3 decent tackles even though he only had nine touches.

I appreciate this is down to game time and also its great for their experience but basically i think performances are being overhyped.

Thoughts?

You see, I stopped reading.

He was in our best which means stats are worthless.

Thanks for your time.

 

[smoovy]

Our rookies are having rookie years. Flashes of brilliance, but overwhelmingly inconsistent. It will be hard, but stay patient. A lot will depend on the coaching they are getting, we need to be encouraging them, but at the same times be harsh on the deficiencies. I have confidence in Craigy on this.

 

[jackster83]

A lot will depend on the coaching they are getting, we need to be encouraging them, but at the same times be harsh on the deficiencies. I have confidence in Craigy on this.

On the contrary, I think Walker and Cook will be this week's scapegoats and dropped to the SANFL (replaced by Moran and Knights). It's always the inexperienced guys who take the fall after a loss. Meanwhile, VB, Mcleod, Douglas (wasn't bad tonight) and Rutten keep their gold passes intact.

Apart from Shirley, who was the last 50+ game player dropped?

 

[smoovy]

On the contrary, I think Walker and Cook will be this week's scapegoats and dropped to the SANFL (replaced by Moran and Knights). It's always the inexperienced guys who take the fall after a loss. Meanwhile, VB, Mcleod, Douglas (wasn't bad tonight) and Rutten keep their gold passes intact.

Apart from Shirley, who was the last 50+ game player dropped?

Johncock?

 

[Stiffy_18]

On the contrary, I think Walker and Cook will be this week's scapegoats and dropped to the SANFL (replaced by Moran and Knights). It's always the inexperienced guys who take the fall after a loss. Meanwhile, VB, Mcleod, Douglas (wasn't bad tonight) and Rutten keep their gold passes intact.

Apart from Shirley, who was the last 50+ game player dropped?

Scapegoats?!

Oh please, on the showing last night and on his workrate Walker deserves to be dropped. I am sorry but if thats the effort that he puts in then he is no scapegoat talk. He was like Tarrant last night. His workrate was non existant.

Don't get me wrong the kid has enormous talent but talent alone will not get you there. Chris Ladhams had talent. Walker is showing great flashes but if we are honest, he has been pretty poor the last 2-3 weeks. Apart from the great goal against Geelong, his last 2 games have been well below par.

He was really lucky to keep his spot for the showdown and you would expect him to show something last night but he just showed up. Petrenko was lucky to keep his spot but he bounced back when the torch was put on him.

On last night's showing Walker will need to improve his workrate and hunger for contest by 500% if he is to make out a career for himself. He is still young and you give him that but he needs to pull his finger out and work on his weaknesses.

 

[cmndstab]

The one positive for Walker last night was that he actually did try to chase from time to time. He never caught anyone and looked slow as hell but at least he tried to chase, which is all you can ask. Hopefully once people like Petrenko or Jacky are playing down there creating pressure that slows the defence down, then his chasing may actually lead to a turnover one day.


His attack on the ball, on the other hand, was non-existent.

 

[Cap]

Lets face it guys all of these rookies were not going to be able to play 22 games for the year.
Whilst I am the first to say I am disappointed at Walker I probably forgot that the kid is going to take 50 games to get to the point we all expect him to. I also think that we need to remember that will all of the guys. I think we tend to forget how little football a large proportion of our team has played at AFL level and tend to judge them to a level a bit higher than we should because in my memory in the Crows I don't remember having such a young team.

 

[WALL-e]

Thought Pets was great.

Rich > Pets, I thought we were all in agreance on that?

 

[beagle2]

The one positive for Walker last night was that he actually did try to chase from time to time. He never caught anyone and looked slow as hell but at least he tried to chase, which is all you can ask. Hopefully once people like Petrenko or Jacky are playing down there creating pressure that slows the defence down, then his chasing may actually lead to a turnover one day.


His attack on the ball, on the other hand, was non-existent.

He is just that and with a lack of height he will struggle

 

[cmndstab]

It's funny, with Dangerfield last year we were all rabbiting on about his speed, his handball receives, his standing up in a tackle, and all of that. For me, the most exciting part of his game this year hasn't been anything he's done with the ball, receiving it at pace, tucking it under his arm and going for a burst, or flying into a pack and emerging with the ball with opposition players falling off him - it's been the image we've had of him every game so far where an opposition player near him wins the ball and through sheer desperation and strength he's managed to either dispossess the player or hold him up sufficiently long enough to create either a stoppage or time for another Crow to come in and apply pressure. He looks like he can rotate to the forward pocket and do some damage, and he has the tools to be a great run-and-carry player but for mine, he is a born clearance player. Not only can he win his own ball, if he doesn't win it he is immediately applying defensive pressure. I like what I'm seeing Even if that's all he ever ends up as, he will be a very useful player.

 

[cmndstab]

He is just that and with a lack of height he will struggle

I wonder though... which Crow management guy was it that said that Walker was the best at ending up with the ball from a poor kick he'd ever seen? Walker isn't just a mark-on-a-lead guy, he's capable of winning contested pack marks, working his man under the ball and taking the mark at the back of a pack or whatever - in that regard his height is more than adequate. From an attacking point of view, the concerning thing is that he doesn't seem to be going for contests, he seems to be waiting for a spillage. I hope someone is explaining to him that it doesn't work that way in the AFL - spillages that happen to go to you on your own just don't occur that often.


As for his defensive action, his height shouldn't cause any problems, but his lack of pace certainly will. Somebody who knows more about athletics should be able to tell me, can you train people to run more quickly? Is it simply a case of getting stronger muscles? Or toning parts of your body? I know fitness is something you can build up but I have no idea with speed. I don't expect him to be fast, but "not slow" would be nice. From there, hopefully once we get Petrenko or Jacky in the forward line to cause pressure, along with Douglas who actually seems to be doing the forward line pressure thing fairly well this year, he doesn't need to be as fast as his opponent as they will get held up by the smalls and then he can enter the fray.

 

[spexau]

I'm no expert but from what I've been told that running quickly is due to having trained "fast twitch" muscles. It's the same with jumping higher *I think*. I'm not sure how he'd go about it, I think you have to just train those muscles to react faster when you need them to. I hope someone else can either confirm and explain this more, or tell me I'm wrong and follow it up with an explanation. Either way I'll be happy