List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?

  • Total voters
    332

Remove this Banner Ad

Log in to remove this ad.

yakka man said:
By consistently selecting those types of players. He values their role, and thus, it is fair to judge both players and coach for the team's failures.
Click to expand...

Agree with that statement, but that wasn’t my point.

Ross has achieved results in the past that at the time saw him universally rated amongst the best of his peer group. These players have not, and thus melting on them starts earlier and is more intense.
 
SHill Shall said:
Agree with that statement, but that wasn’t my point.

Ross has achieved results in the past that at the time saw him universally rated amongst the best of his peer group. These players have not, and thus melting on them starts earlier and is more intense.
Click to expand...

Not true in the case of D Pearce who was very good in his first season here.
 
ydraw said:
Not true in the case of D Pearce who was very good in his first season here.
Click to expand...

DP has never been in the top 25% of AFL players.

DP has never been in the top 50% of AFL players.

DP has ......... (I’ll stop there)

But, yes, he’s ours (at least for the remqinder of the year) and has been a great servant for us.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Last year it was the players that made him pick an old team when we were rebuilding, this year it's the accountants making him. What a crock of s**t.
I guess let's reserve judgement until Saturday. If we get flogged by 15 goals again like last year, the melt thread awaits.

"We're trying to run a dual narrative of develop and get a blend of youth and experience and bang games in while we win games of footy," Lyon said.

"Because there's economic realities for our club, new stadium, new facility, it's a challenging model the football model.

"We'd like to bring some on-field wins to help our commercial operations team."
Click to expand...
 
During the seasoning opening meeting presentation thing. Ross implied that we may be in for a long haul. We arent going to bounce back up the ladder to much this year, 10 wins will be fine. In that speech he mentioned dogs taking like 8 years and Tigers taking a fair few. We might have a few more trash years but I think we can all agree that the list at least is being improved. There hasnt been any nuts first rounder trades yet or to many talents wanting to leave other than Weller which did hurt. We have to look long term and I think the club are keen to give Lyon another full cycle so I think its gonna be ride or die wit hRoss for the forseeable future.
 
Square Peg said:
Last year it was the players that made him pick an old team when we were rebuilding, this year it's the accountants making him. What a crock of s**t.
I guess let's reserve judgement until Saturday. If we get flogged by 15 goals again like last year, the melt thread awaits.
Click to expand...
Has slowly but surely shifted the goal posts.

April 2016 was "rewire, restump, replumb"
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-04-29/lyons-says-dockers-are-not-going-to-rebuild

August 2016 was "4 year rebuild"
http://www.watoday.com.au/afl/frema...ld-could-take-four-years-20160826-gr28ey.html

Now 2 seasons on, heading into the third year of the restump-rewire-replumb, we are apparently only heading into the "2nd year" of the rebuild... :think:o_O
https://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/f...s-high-ahead-of-2018-afl-season-ng-b88773549z
Lyon insists the Dockers are going into only the second year of a much-publicised rebuild, despite finishing 14th and 16th in the past two seasons after four consecutive years in finals under his watch.
Click to expand...

Then "Only a year and a half in"
http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/video/2018-03-13/freos-rejuvenation
The real joy comes from what you've seen with Richmond and the Bulldogs, like years of toil and a rebuild...
8 years for the Tigers, 6 years for the Bulldogs.
Click to expand...
Joy? :huh:
...so what is that? 14 games of exposure, one draft that we played last year. It's a year and a half, but two drafts, but the second draft hasn't even played yet.

So, if you look historically, we're really going into our second year off our second draft really
Click to expand...
o_O

Now Pearce and MJ get picked for Round 1? Are we still in the joyous "years of toil" or rebuilding? :think:
 
Last edited:
TheInjuryFactory said:
Has slowly but surely shifted the goal posts.

April 2016 was "rewire, restump, replumb"
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-04-29/lyons-says-dockers-are-not-going-to-rebuild

August 2016 was "4 year rebuild"
http://www.watoday.com.au/afl/frema...ld-could-take-four-years-20160826-gr28ey.html

Now 2 seasons on, heading into the third year of the restump-rewire-replumb, we are apparently going into the 2nd year of the rebuild... :think:o_O
https://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/f...s-high-ahead-of-2018-afl-season-ng-b88773549z


"Only a year and a half in"
http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/video/2018-03-13/freos-rejuvenation

:huh:

o_O
Click to expand...
images.jpeg

People on this board.
 
TheInjuryFactory said:
Has slowly but surely shifted the goal posts.

April 2016 was "rewire, restump, re plumb"
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-04-29/lyons-says-dockers-are-not-going-to-rebuild

August 2016 was "4 year rebuild"
http://www.watoday.com.au/afl/frema...ld-could-take-four-years-20160826-gr28ey.html

Now 2 seasons on, heading into the third year of the restump-rewire-replumb, we are apparently only heading into the 2nd year of the rebuild... :think:o_O
https://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/f...s-high-ahead-of-2018-afl-season-ng-b88773549z


"Only a year and a half in"
http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/video/2018-03-13/freos-rejuvenation

:huh:

o_O

Now Pearce and MJ get picked for Round 1? Are we still in the joyous "years of toil" or rebuilding? :think:
Click to expand...
2015 was probably a misstep, I mean if you are gonig for either rebuild or flag 2015, heck even 2014 may have been the time to start the 'rewire, restump, replumb'. I felt deep down through most of those years that we weren't gonna win s**t. 2013 always felt like that one off chance to me with that squad, maybe the first half of 2015 I got a little excited but really it all just felt sort of pretend.
We definitely are only 2 years into our rebuild and I do think the new stadium may cause some weird decisions at the selection table made through pressure from top brace to get a few home wins. That seems logical to me.
Look at what sticking with a 'dud' coach did for Richmond and lets be honest Richmond put a bunch of decent potatoes around a few top quality dudes and pressured the s**t out of Adelaide. That sounds familiar to me. Maybe we just need some better potatoes and one more top quality guy in the forward line and we can make it again. I dont think this list at the moment has enough talent to make any head road in the finals yet. but im pretty excited about some ofthe pieces. I even liked some of the changes to the game plan that Ross has put in place. looks interesting, more interesting than 2014 or 2015 for me.
 
Steinfreo said:
2015 was probably a misstep, I mean if you are gonig for either rebuild or flag 2015, heck even 2014 may have been the time to start the 'rewire, restump, replumb'. I felt deep down through most of those years that we weren't gonna win s**t. 2013 always felt like that one off chance to me with that squad, maybe the first half of 2015 I got a little excited but really it all just felt sort of pretend.
We definitely are only 2 years into our rebuild and I do think the new stadium may cause some weird decisions at the selection table made through pressure from top brace to get a few home wins. That seems logical to me.
Look at what sticking with a 'dud' coach did for Richmond and lets be honest Richmond put a bunch of decent potatoes around a few top quality dudes and pressured the s**t out of Adelaide. That sounds familiar to me. Maybe we just need some better potatoes and one more top quality guy in the forward line and we can make it again. I dont think this list at the moment has enough talent to make any head road in the finals yet. but im pretty excited about some ofthe pieces. I even liked some of the changes to the game plan that Ross has put in place. looks interesting, more interesting than 2014 or 2015 for me.
Click to expand...
Are they suggesting Freo fans abandon ship during tough years as if we are accustomed to success or something lol? The club hasn't made a loss in the past 3 years btw.

I'm sure there is pressure to win for a variety of reasons including financial. To expressly state 'it's time to bring some wins for monetary reasons' in the context of selecting experienced players is ludicrous in a supposed rebuild. Who is more likely to draw a crowd during a rebuild - a side that gets pumped and has your D Pearce/Sutcliffe/Sheridan/Suban/Dawson/Mayne/Spurr types or a side that gets pumped but has young players that represent the future hopes of a struggling (on field) club?

In a rebuild you should be selling hope, the promise of improvement and the enjoyment you feel from watching young players grow into great players, not wins.
 
Last edited:
_007_ said:
Are they suggesting Freo fans abandon ship during tough years as if we are accustomed to success or something lol? The club hasn't made a loss in the past 3 years btw.

I'm sure there is pressure to win for a variety of reasons including financial. To expressly state 'it's time to bring some wins for monetary reasons' in the context of selecting experienced players is ludicrous in a supposed rebuild. Who is more likely to draw a crowd during a rebuild - a side that gets pumped and has your D Pearce/Sutcliffe/Sheridan/Suban/Dawson/Mayne/Spurr types or a side that gets pumped but has young players that represent the future hopes of a struggling (on field) club?

In a rebuild you should be selling hope, the promise of improvement and the enjoyment you feel from watching young players grow into great players, not wins.
Click to expand...
Lyon talks about integrity of selection. What about Fremantle first, Dockers second, and purple and white third?

Sorry to players who has done us well in the past, what is important is now and in the future for Fremantle. If we are not a contender for a top 4 spot, then play the talent kids and only play top 15 older players.

Everybody talks about how Melbourne rebuilt by stripping bare of all experience but Hawthorn stripped bare the borderline sub top 15 players like Vanderberg and went young.
 
TheInjuryFactory said:
August 2016 was "4 year rebuild"
http://www.watoday.com.au/afl/frema...ld-could-take-four-years-20160826-gr28ey.html
Click to expand...
You referenced a Brendan Forster article. Yuck... just yuck.

I'll bite. Not because I care too much about it but because your argument is misleading.

The bit you quoted (4 year rebuild) wasn't from Ross. It was from Brendan's (yuck) headline. Ross actually said: "We don't know exactly where we are at, it's a moving feast," and "We understand we are rebuilding, it's on the agenda. We certainly have a timeframe and all the studies have been done on how long it takes."

The bit that is more relevant from Brendan's words in the first paragraph of the article: "take up to four years to get the Dockers back into finals contention" - 'finals contention' is not the same as the 'rebuild' that this homeless 'journalist' wants us to believe.

I'm not going to claim Ross doesn't shift the goal posts. He's responsible for a large number of people and a large budget. Like all people who do that, they will adjust things over time. And they should do that if it makes them and what they are responsible for more effective.

In this case though I don't think he has. We've had two drafts since late 2016 and only one full season so far (2017). We are heading into the second full season (2018). Some are predicting we are a chance to make finals (ie finals contention) this year and if not, most people following closely are thinking next year (2019). That still keeps us well within the original timeline.

I get people are confused because they count 2016 as the first year of the rebuild but the comments weren't made at the start of that season, they were made towards the end (as per the snippets you quoted). In pre-season 2016 they thought they could bounce back from having some key injuries and finishing minor premiers in 2015 (they clearly got that very wrong) - the 2015 draft wasn't a rebuilding draft for us.

I'm interpreting it all as: we've had two drafts as part of this rebuild so far and we have two more to go - which if you look at our current list seems bang on. I'm expecting us to be in finals contention next year (ie in the 3rd season) and pushing for a premiership the year following (the 4th season) and the next few seasons after that. I've never been more excited about the state of our list than I am at the moment. I think our trading and drafting has been excellent since we started this rebuild and that's really the key indicator of how the rebuild is going isn't it? Lloyd deserves a lot of credit imo.

I can't believe we haven't even played a game yet this season and this has already become a major focus because two players are playing that most didn't want to.

The selections aren't ideal but if Stephen Hill was fit and Spurr hadn't gotten injured we'd probably only be complaining about one player in our B22. We always knew the B22 would come from the JLT2 squad plus the Hills at best. Hamling omitted is surprising but I'd be a hypocrite if I made too much of a song and dance about it because I've been calling for more run in the backline for years (instead of lots of negating defenders). I'd preferred alternative options (to DP/Sutty) as well but I don't think it will have a huge bearing on the outcome of the game, and therefore not going to lose my **** about it. We have two debutants in round 1 - I'm just focusing on that positive.
 
A four year rebuild wouldn’t actually be that bad in the scheme of things. Look at Melbourne - haven’t made finals in 11 years. Look at Brisbane - probably been 5-6 years. St Kilda have been rebuilding since Ross left and finals are no where near sight for them. Gold Coast have never made finals. Four years is a short rebuild. It’s what we need and I reckon we’re on track but finals may be a little out of reach.
 
wayToGo_ said:
You referenced a Brendan Forster article. Yuck... just yuck.

I'll bite. Not because I care too much about it but because your argument is misleading.

The bit you quoted (4 year rebuild) wasn't from Ross. It was from Brendan's (yuck) headline. Ross actually said: "We don't know exactly where we are at, it's a moving feast," and "We understand we are rebuilding, it's on the agenda. We certainly have a timeframe and all the studies have been done on how long it takes."

The bit that is more relevant from Brendan's words in the first paragraph of the article: "take up to four years to get the Dockers back into finals contention" - 'finals contention' is not the same as the 'rebuild' that this homeless 'journalist' wants us to believe.

I'm not going to claim Ross doesn't shift the goal posts. He's responsible for a large number of people and a large budget. Like all people who do that, they will adjust things over time. And they should do that if it makes them and what they are responsible for more effective.

In this case though I don't think he has. We've had two drafts since late 2016 and only one full season so far (2017). We are heading into the second full season (2018). Some are predicting we are a chance to make finals (ie finals contention) this year and if not, most people following closely are thinking next year (2019). That still keeps us well within the original timeline.

I get people are confused because they count 2016 as the first year of the rebuild but the comments weren't made at the start of that season, they were made towards the end (as per the snippets you quoted). In pre-season 2016 they thought they could bounce back from having some key injuries and finishing minor premiers in 2015 (they clearly got that very wrong) - the 2015 draft wasn't a rebuilding draft for us.

I'm interpreting it all as: we've had two drafts as part of this rebuild so far and we have two more to go - which if you look at our current list seems bang on. I'm expecting us to be in finals contention next year (ie in the 3rd season) and pushing for a premiership the year following (the 4th season) and the next few seasons after that. I've never been more excited about the state of our list than I am at the moment. I think our trading and drafting has been excellent since we started this rebuild and that's really the key indicator of how the rebuild is going isn't it? Lloyd deserves a lot of credit imo.

I can't believe we haven't even played a game yet this season and this has already become a major focus because two players are playing that most didn't want to.

The selections aren't ideal but if Stephen Hill was fit and Spurr hadn't gotten injured we'd probably only be complaining about one player in our B22. We always knew the B22 would come from the JLT2 squad plus the Hills at best. Hamling omitted is surprising but I'd be a hypocrite if I made too much of a song and dance about it because I've been calling for more run in the backline for years (instead of lots of negating defenders). I'd preferred alternative options (to DP/Sutty) as well but I don't think it will have a huge bearing on the outcome of the game, and therefore not going to lose my **** about it. We have two debutants in round 1 - I'm just focusing on that positive.
Click to expand...
"Everyone hopes to do it quickly but if you look at the bulldogs, they played in a prelim in 09 and 10, then in Rocket's last year (2011) they started playing the kids and then they played finals last year (2015)" - Ross Lyon

"So it was four years and they played in their fifth year" - Ross Lyon

"But then it's a bit like Richmond, you get your four or five years or whatever– or Melbourne – and you start to get judged." - Ross Lyon

All from the article, all quotes.
 
Last edited:
_007_ said:
"Everyone hopes to do it quickly but if you look at the bulldogs, they played in a prelim in 09 and 10, then in Rocket's last year (2011) they started playing the kids and then they played finals last year (2015)" - Ross Lyon

"So it was four years and the played in their fifth year" - Ross Lyon

"But then it's a bit like Richmond, you get your four or five years or whatever– or Melbourne – and you start to get judged." - Ross Lyon

All from the article, all quotes.
Click to expand...
But are any of those quotes are any more definitive? In August 2016 clearly Freo knew they were starting a rebuild and approximating 4 years. Either way isn't right now the 2nd full season since then? And Ross is being judged already anyway - by the supporter base and the media. I've been happy with what I've seen in pre-season, so now want to see a few games (not just rd 1) in the regular season. I'm don't think we need to burn everything down just because Danyle is playing. The positives far outweigh the negatives don't they?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
  • Poll
Opinion Who to sack poll
2
Replies
36
Views
2K
theGav56
T
G
Sack Dale Alcock and David Walls
2
Replies
28
Views
1K
Purple Jesus
Purple Jesus
Back
Top