List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?

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For me the biggest indictment on Lyon is how many of our ex-players go on to play better elsewhere, but when we bring people in they seem to forget how to kick or play nearly as well as they did at their old club.

Take Brad Hill as an example. His last 3 years at Hawthorn he had disposal efficiency of 74%, 77% and 72%. So far at Freo it's been 69, 69. 68. Significant dropoff. I don't think he's become less skilled in our time, I think it's something about our game plan that makes it harder for our players.

Something is wrong with our coaching and player development at a fundamental level. I don't know if that's all Ross Lyon's fault but he has to be at least partly responsible.
 
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maka said:
If you have poor training you would be a poor tradesman, if after 8 seasons your new apprentices make the same mistakes... ahh yeah you’re not the right man for the job
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What a crock of sh*t

You learn stuff all during an apprenticeship except the basics and it's how you apply yourself afterwards throughout your career which will determine how successful you become in your trade.

It is very similar in the sporting world. A coach can only do so much, the rest is down to the players to improve themselves and certain aspects of their game. The top players often put in extra work away from the main training sessions.
 

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mightymouse75 said:
You guys. Would you honestly trade ross for drum or harvey. Would we have made the grandy or been on top of the ladder with cuddles as coaxh. He is under pressure. If s**t dosnt improve by end of season he will be gone.
I think we showed sone really good signs on saturday.
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20 wins in our last three seasons... is it really much different
 
Hate to tell you but Connolly has more than double Ross wins in his last three seasons
 
I’m on this thread over the last few years as being a dissenter of Ross. Like Tonygeeks, there is something “at the molecular level” that puts me off (Thanks Tony. Also, mate you make me chuckle with your posting).

I’ve held fire this season, despite wanting to unload over the JLT. I’m glad I have. Yes, we have been untidy to watch (except against the witches hats of Norf), but we are 4 games in an clearly have a better defensive system. To do this without some key personnel is encouraging.

I am no Eagles fan, but I have a lot of admiration for what Simpson has done for that team. A great system, that took them to a premiership without some key players. Last night, on their home deck with a near full team that system was disrupted in a big way. That’s a big tick to Ross and his team. Didn’t see that coming after the end of Q1. After 4 rounds teams form lines are becoming clearer, and I do think we are on track to be a lot more competitive. Fingers crossed.

That being said, we have a long way to go. Our efficiency remains deplorable, and when Ross puts skill into the players I do get triggered. Skills coaching used to be a thing - does anyone else remember Connolly hiring Jack Black after the drum years? So please Ross, focus on skills and execution. Get Jack Black if you have to.
 
maka said:
Hate to tell you but Connolly has more than double Ross wins in his last three seasons
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Lyon still has more wins and a higher win%.
Lyon has won 4 finals games ... twice as many as all other Freo coaches combined.
Freo have finished top 4, 4 times ... 3 of those under Lyon.
Freo have finished in the bottom 4, 9 times ... once under Lyon.
Freo have played in just 1 Grand Final ... Lyon.
Freo have won the minor premiership once ... Lyon.
Freo have been wooden spooners once ... not under Lyon.
 
bushchook said:
For me the biggest indictment on Lyon is how many of our ex-players go on to play better elsewhere, but when we bring people in they seem to forget how to kick or play nearly as well as they did at their old club.

Take Brad Hill as an example. His last 3 years at Hawthorn he had disposal efficiency of 74%, 77% and 72%. So far at Freo it's been 69, 69. 68. Significant dropoff. I don't think he's become less skilled in our time, I think it's something about our game plan that makes it harder for our players.

Something is wrong with our coaching and player development at a fundamental level. I don't know if that's all Ross Lyon's fault but he has to be at least partly responsible.
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And yet his metres gained (per game) are far greater for Fremantle.
Did you maybe stop to think that Hawthorn played an uncontested possession game during that time, whereas Freo use B.Hill to gain territory.
And I like how you chose to ignore his first two seasons at Hawthorn when he had his two worst Disposal Efficiency season stats of his career.
 
PurpleEyes said:
And I like how you chose to ignore his first two seasons at Hawthorn when he had his two worst Disposal Efficiency season stats of his career.
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I didn't ignore them, I assume players usually get better as they gain experience, which is what happened with Hill. Then he came here and got worse.
 
PurpleEyes said:
Lyon still has more wins and a higher win%.
Lyon has won 4 finals games ... twice as many as all other Freo coaches combined.
Freo have finished top 4, 4 times ... 3 of those under Lyon.
Freo have finished in the bottom 4, 9 times ... once under Lyon.
Freo have played in just 1 Grand Final ... Lyon.
Freo have won the minor premiership once ... Lyon.
Freo have been wooden spooners once ... not under Lyon.
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Yes but since Lyon signed his contract extension, declared Freo were fully resourced and he had no excuse not to win a flag, the riff raff ladder looks like this...

St Kilda: Played 70; won 30; drew 1; lost 39; points for 5785; points against 6441; percentage 89.82; 50+ point losses 10.
Fremantle: 70; 22-0-48; 5063-6575; 77.00%; 19.
Gold Coast: 70; 19-0-51; 5119-7034; 72.78%; 21.
Brisbane: 70; 16-0-54; 5853-7794; 75.10%; 22.
Carlton: 70; 15-0-55; 4782-6635; 72.07%; 18.
 
Credit to the boys for not throwing in the towel and fighting out a respectable result.

The result on Saturday night reinforces my belief that Ross is fundamentally incorrect with respect to his approach to skills. The Eagles have beaten Freo 8 straight times and that must fall squarely on the shoulders of Ross. Again, Ross was defeated by a team with superior skills. Again, a defender put Freo to the sword and we allow this because we do not enter the F50 with precision.

Ross has had enough time to address this. His failure is now a negligence that cannot be ignored.
 

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youmewe said:
Yes but since Lyon signed his contract extension, declared Freo were fully resourced and he had no excuse not to win a flag, the riff raff ladder looks like this...

St Kilda: Played 70; won 30; drew 1; lost 39; points for 5785; points against 6441; percentage 89.82; 50+ point losses 10.
Fremantle: 70; 22-0-48; 5063-6575; 77.00%; 19.
Gold Coast: 70; 19-0-51; 5119-7034; 72.78%; 21.
Brisbane: 70; 16-0-54; 5853-7794; 75.10%; 22.
Carlton: 70; 15-0-55; 4782-6635; 72.07%; 18.
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Lyon was given the contract extension prior to the rebuild.
The rebuild was decided by the Fremantle Football club after the poor start of the 2016 season, after Lyon's contract extension to 2020 which happened before the start of the 2016 season. Lyon's comments about a premiership were made prior to the decision by FFC to rebuild.

And since Lyon commenced coaching Fremantle in 2012;
FR 167-89-1-77 (167 Games, 89 Wins, 1 Draw, 77 Losses) & including 9 Finals (4 wins 5 losses)

SK 158-57-2-99 & 0 Finals
GC 158-44-1-113 & 0 Finals
BL 158-47-0-111 & 0 Finals
CA 160-49-1-110 & including 2 Finals (1 win 1 loss)
 
Dirty_banchez said:
Credit to the boys for not throwing in the towel and fighting out a respectable result.

The result on Saturday night reinforces my belief that Ross is fundamentally incorrect with respect to his approach to skills. The Eagles have beaten Freo 8 straight times and that must fall squarely on the shoulders of Ross. Again, Ross was defeated by a team with superior skills. Again, a defender put Freo to the sword and we allow this because we do not enter the F50 with precision.

Ross has had enough time to address this. His failure is now a negligence that cannot be ignored.
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Hang on, I thought all the talk before the game was how to prevent McGovern from taking the intercept marks. Which Freo did very well.
So now the torch and pitchfork campaigners are changing the goal posts to be Hurn or is it any defender or all the West Coast defenders?

Freo have lost the last 8 to West Coast because West Coast have been the better team during that time.
Freo's last win was 9 derbies ago in 2015 when Freo last finished above West Coast on the ladder.
Freo/Lyon won the 3 derbies in 2014/2015 against West Coast/Simpson ... (when Freo finished higher on the ladder) was that due to Freo's superior skills and credited to Ross?
 
bushchook said:
For me the biggest indictment on Lyon is how many of our ex-players go on to play better elsewhere, but when we bring people in they seem to forget how to kick or play nearly as well as they did at their old club.

Take Brad Hill as an example. His last 3 years at Hawthorn he had disposal efficiency of 74%, 77% and 72%. So far at Freo it's been 69, 69. 68. Significant dropoff. I don't think he's become less skilled in our time, I think it's something about our game plan that makes it harder for our players.

Something is wrong with our coaching and player development at a fundamental level. I don't know if that's all Ross Lyon's fault but he has to be at least partly responsible.
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It's called the ross Lyon effort over skill matnra...the guy is a talent suppressor
 
kingswood71 said:
Who? and how many?....
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Of the players who left / were moved on since starting the rebuild and ended up at another club, Barlow, Weller and Balic, probably were / are no different to when at Freo. De Boer is doing well at GWS, Mayne is doing well at Collingwood, Crozier is doing well at the Bullies and, early days, Collins is doing well at Gold Coast. On balance, I think this group of players are doing better at their new clubs than at Freo.

For players who have come to Freo, IMHO, Hamling has gone from strength to strength, Wilson was fine last year but has had a poor start to the year, Bhill is a more complete player (gets more of the ball, gets some contested ball, lays some tackles, but Disposal eff. is down). The forwards, Matera, McCarthy and Kersten have struggled. Things may be picking up for Cam and Brandon, and Kersten is probably no different to when at Geelong. Too early to comment on this years four newcomers. On balance, criticism that players do worse at Freo could maybe be justified for forwards.
 
dockerfemme said:
Of the players who left / were moved on since starting the rebuild and ended up at another club, Barlow, Weller and Balic, probably were / are no different to when at Freo. De Boer is doing well at GWS, Mayne is doing well at Collingwood, Crozier is doing well at the Bullies and, early days, Collins is doing well at Gold Coast. On balance, I think this group of players are doing better at their new clubs than at Freo.

For players who have come to Freo, IMHO, Hamling has gone from strength to strength, Wilson was fine last year but has had a poor start to the year, Bhill is a more complete player (gets more of the ball, gets some contested ball, lays some tackles, but Disposal eff. is down). The forwards, Matera, McCarthy and Kersten have struggled. Things may be picking up for Cam and Brandon, and Kersten is probably no different to when at Geelong. Too early to comment on this years four newcomers. On balance, criticism that players do worse at Freo could maybe be justified for forwards.
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Neale has improved, Menegola, the rest I'd agree with, the fact we have had problems with scoring since the GF, and missing set shots, talls, flair, is why we have a monkey on our back.
Don't forget the lame ducks that were recruited to fix the issue, Gumby, Sylvia, Anthony and the huge money thrown at Cloke, Clark.
That and the fact we threw 2 draft picks for Cam, thankfully other clubs, players have saved our butts.
What this does point out is we prefer to draft mids, mids, HB. I blame the club as a whole, as we are a poor off the
field, and Ross is involved in the decision process.
Only a qualified, experienced forward coach, skilled, S&C team will get our team to where we all want to be.
Ross can be a part of the solution, I believe, or the anchor that is stuck in the mud.
 
I reckon this season will be McCarthy's best. It's only been 4 Rounds and he's kicked half of the amount of goals he kicked last year already. Guy could kick 35-45 this year. I still was a little miffed about trading Crozier (I liked the guy so bias) but I'm glad he's doing well, same with the career resurgences of De Boer and Mayne.
 
I’m quite surprised by the negativity in this thread after that game. We were missing our 4 first choice midfielders, lost our key back during the game and have a number of young kids and new players to the club learning to gel.

Despite that, if it wasn’t for some really poor set shots we would’ve won the game. We largely stemmed their uncontested style of play and won 3 quarters of football. I’m now confident we’ve found a way to counter their style of play

Surely Ross deserves some credit for taking it up to the premiers with the relative strengths of the lists. If nothing else we improved greatly despite our extended injury list.
 
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