List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?

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If we are clean by hand I think we look ten goals better. Everyone is where they need to be, we can win the ball and spoil.

It's just no use being lightning quick if you spend an extra second bending over to pick the ball up fumbling along. They are already onto you and now your handball or kick is a rush.
 
Galvo said:
I’m quite surprised by the negativity in this thread after that game. We were missing our 4 first choice midfielders, lost our key back during the game and have a number of young kids and new players to the club learning to gel.

Despite that, if it wasn’t for some really poor set shots we would’ve won the game. We largely stemmed their uncontested style of play and won 3 quarters of football. I’m now confident we’ve found a way to counter their style of play

Surely Ross deserves some credit for taking it up to the premiers with the relative strengths of the lists. If nothing else we improved greatly despite our extended injury list.
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It's not our personal, Ross knows how to restrict the opposition, the attacking, uncontested, scoring, skills and clean
use of the ball is the problem.
Forwards too high, no tall closer to goal, imagine how good we would be with a functioning forward line, better skills?
Even kicking for goal is a skill, WC kids kick those coincidence?
 
Tayl0r said:
If we are clean by hand I think we look ten goals better. Everyone is where they need to be, we can win the ball and spoil.

It's just no use being lightning quick if you spend an extra second bending over to pick the ball up fumbling along. They are already onto you and now your handball or kick is a rush.
Click to expand...
Handballing into your teammates head is something that probably needs looked at.
 

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Galvo said:
I’m quite surprised by the negativity in this thread after that game. We were missing our 4 first choice midfielders, lost our key back during the game and have a number of young kids and new players to the club learning to gel.

Despite that, if it wasn’t for some really poor set shots we would’ve won the game. We largely stemmed their uncontested style of play and won 3 quarters of football. I’m now confident we’ve found a way to counter their style of play

Surely Ross deserves some credit for taking it up to the premiers with the relative strengths of the lists. If nothing else we improved greatly despite our extended injury list.
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Brilliant response!
 
A lot of negative opinions in here, however, I have never been more excited as Freo support than I am now!

There is significant improvement in the game plan, it is very close to clicking. We will get some midfield quality back soon. Cerra and Brayshaw continue to improve each week. This draft we should focus on obtaining some midfield class and a serviceable ruckman and the rebuild is complete.

Peter Bell is heavily involved in all area's of football operations - he is watching pregame warm ups and training, he is involved with the S&C dept, he is in the huddle for each break. Once he gets an understanding of the lay of the land this season I expect he will implement significant improvements for next season.

Peter has balls and he will firmly state his views to Lyon. Peter also has the board in his pocket, so obtaining their approval for any changes wont be an issue.

The competition is even and we have now shown we can beat the best on any given day.

If we can revamp out S&C department at the end of this season, obtain an experienced assistant coach and recruit some midfield class then the premiership is ours for taking next year. We could see multiple premierships over the next 5-7 years.
 
maka said:
When I did my apprenticeship my coach taught me all the skills I needed to survive in this world so I have no idea why anyone who think skill errors don’t rest on Ross the toss shoulders because they certainly are trained, if they’re the assistants, again the utensil head boss chose these clowns he wasn’t gifted them
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My money is on you being a plasterer or a butcher or something. Or perhaps a grano worker, that seems to attract the real s**t kickers.
 
lost the last 8 derbies same result same shite............its like reading a script you would think ross would have learnt somthing but obviously not.............simmo just laughs at the thought of coming up against ross
 
Galvo said:
I’m quite surprised by the negativity in this thread after that game. We were missing our 4 first choice midfielders, lost our key back during the game and have a number of young kids and new players to the club learning to gel.

Despite that, if it wasn’t for some really poor set shots we would’ve won the game. We largely stemmed their uncontested style of play and won 3 quarters of football. I’m now confident we’ve found a way to counter their style of play

Surely Ross deserves some credit for taking it up to the premiers with the relative strengths of the lists. If nothing else we improved greatly despite our extended injury list.
Click to expand...
Ross didn't take it up to the Premiers he brought them down to our level. However I'll take an ugly win with some better set shot accuracy. Problem is that the players were running around like headless chooks and mentally blew those shots. The positive is you can train for players to take those shots under fatigue and simulating the pressure.

That's Problem 1. Ross doesn't think that his responsibility. Wrong.

Problem 2: The headless chook effort over skill is a game plan that isn't sustainable without burning the players we have out. If they manage to last the game like against St Kilda they're still stuffed by Tuesday so Ross cancelled a skills training session and takes them to the beach instead for kick and giggle to release some pressure and have extra rest I guess.

I wouldn't have mentioned this except RTB then decides to blame the players and tell them "own their own" skills without realising he's to blame for most of the skill suppression with the lack of training in them and game plan!

Problem 3: Related to the gameplan, (which was different to Rd 1 when we had a leading forward and two tall targets to aim for, although there was still some bombing it fwd) we go to just bombing it fwd or having no talls forward of half way!! Even though McLovin didn't have a good game (KFC near the sidelines worked a treat!), Sheppard and Hurn had 25 intercept disposals and Barass and Rotham were bossing contests so our effort came to naught most of the time.

Problem 4: Ross decides not to tag the gutless coward puncher in the first 1/4. He should have been pissing in his boots and mentally stuffed not knowing where the next bump was coming from instead was able to get 10 possessions, WC have 5 goals to 1 and a 26 pt first 1/4 lead. He built his confidence with the crowd's cheers and went on to get 35 possessions. If you wanted to shut the crowd up why wasn't he given a tough but fair tag to take him mentally and physically out of the game. He should have had zero possessions that quarter but wasn't even pressured.

Someone like De Boar or Banfield from last year or someone? I don't care if RTB brought Nyhous in to do it and I can't believe this didn't happen and this one is totally on RTB.

I supported us for the win and believe we could have taken it ugly but don't think there is much to look forward to here if nothing changes.
 
I'm more optimistic after watching the derby than I have been in ages. We are doing a lot right at the contest and structurally.
Of course I don't think Lyon has it in his DNA to win a flag but I am looking forward to seeing this side with S Hill back in it to add that bit of class and experience, we are really missing him. If Sandi ever gets back, even more so.
The Lyon naysayers must surely be able to see that there are some good signs?
The Lyon apologists are just utterly painful in the convoluted arguments to try and convince of his greatness. Why can't you people just accept he is good but not great?
 
BlueE said:
Problem is that the players were running around like headless chooks
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I think people are mistakingly equating "poor execution of skills" = "running around like headless chooks". WC's short kicking ball movement would have absolutely carved us up if we were chaotic and disorganised. The overwhelming biggest positive out of that game is that we seemed to finally find a way to throw a spanner in that Hawthorn style that has been our achilles for close to a decade now. They still did a lot of kick to kick out the back amongst their defenders but our organised full team defence more often than not forced them having to bomb long to a contest down the line. We then got numbers to those contests and either spoiled, intercepted or put enough pressure on the ground so they didn't get clean i50s. It's it exactly how WC won a premiership last year - I have no idea why some people don't think they are a defence first team - slow down the opposition's ball movement, force them to kick long to a contest (before it gets i50) and intercept or failing that, outnumber the contest.

I found it interesting hearing Pav talk about giving their players too much space when they had the ball in d50 (from a kick-in) but I actually think that was our plan. We didn't seem to mind them moving the ball at ease side to side but at soon as they tried to go forwards we clamped down on it. It meant we conserved some energy by not doing that crazy pressure at all times where we often over commit and we get carved up on transition. Relating to this I personally feel Hurn's game was overrated. He kicked in a lot because we had a lot of behinds, plus I don't think we minded him having a bit of space (nor any of their defenders), so long as he was force to kick short in our d50 or kick long to a contest we could impact. He was only involved in 2 scores for the whole game. Luke Ryan was involved in 4 scores as a comparison.

It also meant we held pretty good structure when we did intercept it. I was once again disappointed in the lack of movement forward of the ball when we had possession. It's something we did really well in the North game and I don't think the lack of pressure compared to the other three games should be an excuse - players should still spread and move to create space and take pressure off the ball carrier - we even showed we could move the ball effectively with short kicking in that game when people spread properly - just need to do it consistently. Our overlap run was ok (Langdon worked really hard) but our outside run overall was miles off what we had against North. Fix up those two things and obviously our goal kicking yips and we'll score a lot more freely off the back of that excellent defensive work.

Our forward structure is still a hot mess though. Seems like there are a few communication glitches that need sorting. For instance if Tabs is going to come up field to help move the ball (which he should), then Hogan and McCarthy need to get themselves sorted forward of centre to coordinate and present as targets. And (especially when it is those two i50) we need to be kicking low and hard to leading targets i50 - the high ball only works if Tabs or Lobb are close to goal.

I think Ross is making the right moves. He's a bit hamstrung (pardon the pun) with player availability atm but given what we saw I don't think that should be an excuse for us to not be competitive in most games and continue to improve on what we saw on the weekend. I think GWS will be just as much of a test as the derby - show that same fight away and it will be a very good sign for the future.
 
wayToGo_ said:
I think people are mistakingly equating "poor execution of skills" = "running around like headless chooks". WC's short kicking ball movement would have absolutely carved us up if we were chaotic and disorganised. The overwhelming biggest positive out of that game is that we seemed to finally find a way to throw a spanner in that Hawthorn style that has been our achilles for close to a decade now. They still did a lot of kick to kick out the back amongst their defenders but our organised full team defence more often than not forced them having to bomb long to a contest down the line. We then got numbers to those contests and either spoiled, intercepted or put enough pressure on the ground so they didn't get clean i50s. It's it exactly how WC won a premiership last year - I have no idea why some people don't think they are a defence first team - slow down the opposition's ball movement, force them to kick long to a contest (before it gets i50) and intercept or failing that, outnumber the contest.

I found it interesting hearing Pav talk about giving their players too much space when they had the ball in d50 (from a kick-in) but I actually think that was our plan. We didn't seem to mind them moving the ball at ease side to side but at soon as they tried to go forwards we clamped down on it. It meant we conserved some energy by not doing that crazy pressure at all times where we often over commit and we get carved up on transition. Relating to this I personally feel Hurn's game was overrated. He kicked in a lot because we had a lot of behinds, plus I don't think we minded him having a bit of space (nor any of their defenders), so long as he was force to kick short in our d50 or kick long to a contest we could impact. He was only involved in 2 scores for the whole game. Luke Ryan was involved in 4 scores as a comparison.

It also meant we held pretty good structure when we did intercept it. I was once again disappointed in the lack of movement forward of the ball when we had possession. It's something we did really well in the North game and I don't think the lack of pressure compared to the other three games should be an excuse - players should still spread and move to create space and take pressure off the ball carrier - we even showed we could move the ball effectively with short kicking in that game when people spread properly - just need to do it consistently. Our overlap run was ok (Langdon worked really hard) but our outside run overall was miles off what we had against North. Fix up those two things and obviously our goal kicking yips and we'll score a lot more freely off the back of that excellent defensive work.

Our forward structure is still a hot mess though. Seems like there are a few communication glitches that need sorting. For instance if Tabs is going to come up field to help move the ball (which he should), then Hogan and McCarthy need to get themselves sorted forward of centre to coordinate and present as targets. And (especially when it is those two i50) we need to be kicking low and hard to leading targets i50 - the high ball only works if Tabs or Lobb are close to goal.

I think Ross is making the right moves. He's a bit hamstrung (pardon the pun) with player availability atm but given what we saw I don't think that should be an excuse for us to not be competitive in most games and continue to improve on what we saw on the weekend. I think GWS will be just as much of a test as the derby - show that same fight away and it will be a very good sign for the future.
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Maybe that was the wrong way to phrase what I wanted to say. Our play at times was manic, out of control and haphazard, which I believe led to poor skill execution.

I agree that our zone half forward press was good in taking away the long kick over and through the press. It did allow the short pass to the fwd pocket which I agree was inconsequential and made it difficult for the Weagles. We could have punished them more as they chipped it side to side to look for a way through and better skilled teams may be able to do that.

However because of this plan we still lacked tall fwd's in our fwd half as a target and made many crap kicks forward anyway. I hope we don't drop Tabs because all he needs is pressure practise in those easy kicks he missed.

However even though we curtailed the Weagles we kept coughing it up. I think this is where the manic pressure style catches up with us as well as the positioning because of the game plan.

I didn't count Hurn's kicks but the 25 intercept disposals from him and Shepherd which is the game killer.

All I can see is the weekend game plan going back to 2012 but without the older and better skilled players. I don't think that will get us ahead and if we continue with RTB and the Bossettes and the current S&C staff, we burn out our players suppressing natural skills along the way.
 

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youmewe said:
Maybe both sides should cool their jets until the bye.

Our games between now and then:
GWS (away); Western B's (home); Adelaide (a); Richmond (h); Essendon (a); Brisbane (h) and Collingwood (a).

It's possible we'll be underdogs in all seven of those games.

2-9 or 3-8 at the bye is very possible.
4-7 would be a good outcome.
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No. 4-7 would not be a good outcome.

We all want improvement and that would see us set for another 8 win season. And people wonder why we have little respect in the footy world?

Dirty_banchez said:
Credit to the boys for not throwing in the towel and fighting out a respectable result.

The result on Saturday night reinforces my belief that Ross is fundamentally incorrect with respect to his approach to skills. The Eagles have beaten Freo 8 straight times and that must fall squarely on the shoulders of Ross. Again, Ross was defeated by a team with superior skills. Again, a defender put Freo to the sword and we allow this because we do not enter the F50 with precision.

Ross has had enough time to address this. His failure is now a negligence that cannot be ignored.
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It's this for me. Does this ring a bell for people?

[IMG='width:371px;']https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/2b5259bfffc7d3920b2ca477f4ee534d[/IMG]

I don't want to be in a situation 6 years - 6 YEARS - later where we are having a defender pick apart our shitful forward entries and with us not being able to capitalise on our 'great effort' giving us more than enough chances to win.

So we are playing a bit faster and more direct now. I don't think the DNA of the team is that vastly different now. I don't think Ross can change. I just don't.
 
maka said:
N

I have a life and forums don’t really interest me, I have like 600 posts in ten years, probably post once or twice every 4 days, the fact you praise failure is probably more a reflection on you
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Thank Christ for that. You're as predictable and boring as bat s**t.

On Pixel 2 using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
BlueE said:
Maybe that was the wrong way to phrase what I wanted to say. Our play at times was manic, out of control and haphazard, which I believe led to poor skill execution.

I agree that our zone half forward press was good in taking away the long kick over and through the press. It did allow the short pass to the fwd pocket which I agree was inconsequential and made it difficult for the Weagles. We could have punished them more as they chipped it side to side to look for a way through and better skilled teams may be able to do that.

However because of this plan we still lacked tall fwd's in our fwd half as a target and made many crap kicks forward anyway. I hope we don't drop Tabs because all he needs is pressure practise in those easy kicks he missed.

However even though we curtailed the Weagles we kept coughing it up. I think this is where the manic pressure style catches up with us as well as the positioning because of the game plan.

I didn't count Hurn's kicks but the 25 intercept disposals from him and Shepherd which is the game killer.

All I can see is the weekend game plan going back to 2012 but without the older and better skilled players. I don't think that will get us ahead and if we continue with RTB and the Bossettes and the current S&C staff, we burn out our players suppressing natural skills along the way.
Click to expand...

I think we can sometimes over analyse things as supporters. To sum the game up from a Freo perspective, I thought we:

a) shut down the Eagles game completely, especially after quarter time.
b) created enough chances to win.

I may be different to some other supporters on here but I would take good structure and organisation over anything else. I don't want to be like Essendon and play russian roulette even when we are meant to be a good side. I think the longer the forward group plays together, the cleaner and more cohesion we will play with. The more we win, the more confidence the players will have and that will lead to less mistakes. I think we are on the right path.
 
raffrox said:
No. 4-7 would not be a good outcome.

We all want improvement and that would see us set for another 8 win season. And people wonder why we have little respect in the footy world?



It's this for me. Does this ring a bell for people?

[IMG='width:371px;']https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/2b5259bfffc7d3920b2ca477f4ee534d[/IMG]

I don't want to be in a situation 6 years - 6 YEARS - later where we are having a defender pick apart our shitful forward entries and with us not being able to capitalise on our 'great effort' giving us more than enough chances to win.

So we are playing a bit faster and more direct now. I don't think the DNA of the team is that vastly different now. I don't think Ross can change. I just don't.
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Mate I wasn't suggesting we should be happy to be 4-7, I'm suggesting we could be a lot worse at the bye. Looking at our next 7 games, 4-7 could be a dream result.

Our interstate record over the past 3+ seasons is horrible (5-25; 64.17%; 13 beltings by 50+ points).

Our Perth record over the same time is much better (17-23; 88.52%; 6 beltings).
Actually if you take the Derbies out we've been very respectable (17-16; 93.94%; 5 beltings).

Three of our four games so far have been at Optus Stadium.

With our woeful ball skills, manic pressure running and young team, the second half of the season could be painful to watch. Dog days of July and August.
 
Last edited:
Kenny_01 said:
I think we can sometimes over analyse things as supporters. To sum the game up from a Freo perspective, I thought we:

a) shut down the Eagles game completely, especially after quarter time.
b) created enough chances to win.

I may be different to some other supporters on here but I would take good structure and organisation over anything else. I don't want to be like Essendon and play russian roulette even when we are meant to be a good side. I think the longer the forward group plays together, the cleaner and more cohesion we will play with. The more we win, the more confidence the players will have and that will lead to less mistakes. I think we are on the right path.
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well guess what woosha has a premiership so iwould take his game plan over almost lyon anyday of the week
 
would anyone consider Hird even as an Assistant? Sam Mitchell did well with Eagles and Hird was pretty elite or is he too murky now?
 
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