Ross Lyon

[Squizz]

Quite an extensive article.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...f-player-welfare/story-fnia3v70-1226679132524

It was the moment that pushed Luke Miles' football career over the edge.

(He) had a fireman's exam the day before a VFL game.

The message was clear, skip the test, focus on the game.

"It was frustrating ... the exam wasn't going to impact the game the next day."

Miles, in his last year at the club, disobeyed the Saints' wishes. He passed the test, unbeknown to his coaches, and still played the next day.

As successful as Lyon's men were on the field, many believe the players' lives were unbalanced.

Before the start of last pre-season, Lyon warned Fremantle's players they could not afford to relax in the off-season.

"The players have been sent away with strong programs, they're monitored daily, and all that information comes back to head office, so big brother's watching."

The AFLPA, combined with player managers, want such compulsory off-season training programs scrapped and has specifically called for the abolishment of GPS tracking in the holiday period.

 

[sauce_head]

Interesting article although nothing really new in it, but worth the read. I believe the season should be shortened so each team plays each other once. Give the players a life. Pretty soon it will be like soccer where you make a life decision at 8 years old - professional soccer or bust. And bust means at life and prospects in general. It's The huge trap of ever increasing professionalism. That was one of the most endearing parts of our game, the fact the blokes playing were more or less normal. Like the Gaelic GAA is now. Now we are trying to destroy that as well.

As for Lyin, no doubt he got the best out if people. But it sure isn't pretty to watch.

 

[stkildathunda]

Just confirms what we've all thought about way he treated those that werent in his "group" or in the cool group.

 

[CHBench]

Remember when we were all at a loss for why he was delisted? Obviously that's why, for sitting a fiery exam. Good on Luke! Wonder if anyone inside the club raised an eyebrow to all this? In hindsight, the club sounded like a real trash heap back then, no wonder we dragged our feet when Ross was chasing more 18 months out from his contract expiry. Here you had a coach with results on the downward trend, zero developmental nous, with a divide amongst the playing group, and a player exodus looming. On top of that, an unhealthy expectation of players he didn't even bother to acknowledge! Remember he has already been pulled up last off-season for the over the top training regime he placed on Freo players in their break! Why would you extend PAST the 18 month contract already in place? Absolute blessing he chased the $$$.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

What if Freo win the premiership this year. Their first premiership in the history of the club? Would they be complaining about a strict off season programe?
I just wanted to point out another perspective.
What does it take to win a premiership? Can any StKilda supporter really know the answer to that? How much blood, sweat, tears and sacrifices does it take?
There pretty rare, weve only won 1, by 1 point in 150 years.
Just saying, I think Ross's plans were bigger than taking into consideration Luke Miles fireman exam.

 

[Squizz]

Just saying, I think Ross's plans were bigger than taking into consideration Luke Miles fireman exam.

Sure, but it was a VFL game and a player who hadn't got an AFL game (yet when he finally did he played well and got delisted anyway!)

Teams are able to win games and premierships without disrespecting a player's day off and break between seasons.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

i can't fault Lyon for being too strict with players. Its also what makes him a good coach.

 

[SaintLex]

i can't fault Lyon for being too strict with players. Its also what makes him a good coach.

But it's also his one big flaw. Has no idea about player development and management. What did it matter to Lyon (or other board members/coaches at the club) if the kid sat an exam, with one eye on his future outside of football?

 

[goodie23]

i can't fault Lyon for being too strict with players. Its also what makes him a good coach.

Good game day coach but a poor list manager. Consider how many players fled the club under his watch

 

[VDS66]

Yep, Lyon's biggest fault was that he demanded 100% commitment and effort for 100% of the time. He obviously had no place at St Kilda.

Great coach, sadly missed by this supporter. Brought us closer to 2 flags than any previous coach since Yabby jeans.

As far as recruitment goes, he was hired to delver the flag that eluded GT. He wasn't hired for a rebuild. As far as players wanting to leave... so be it. Youré either looking for a way in or a way out. It's that simple.

Who did we lose of note apart from Luke Ball? Poor Luke could not handle the fact that he was dropped in order to improve some aspects of his game. Ball was bigger than the club. And what does it say for Watters that BJ has gone? Not Lyon's fault that an emerging fwd named Allen had a degenerative injury and had to retire.

I believe he over achieved with our list to be honest. For too long we relied on our best players playing 100%. At least he had the foresight to address those deficiencies for a while when it mattered.

He is a meticulous preparer for games and only goes with players he knows he can trust to deliver on the park... that's why he had so many role players much to our amazement and sometimes disbelief.

 

[Fehring]

Quite an extensive article.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...f-player-welfare/story-fnia3v70-1226679132524

The bits about where we're at now are interesting:

"Behind the scenes, the AFLPA helps fight a daily battle, providing wellbeing programs and support for groups of players from each club with depression and other mental and drug-related illnesses.

Geelong, St Kilda, Hawthorn and Sydney are believed to be leaders in this area, but not every club is on board.
...

If the Saints were previously one of the biggest offenders in this area, the club's approach has changed completely.

Now, with the support of academy chief Tony Micale, and development coaches Jaymie Graham, Simon McPhee and Paul Hudson, players' "emotional needs are being fulfilled equal to their on-field development", Pelchen said.

It means Saints players spend regular sessions receiving counselling and developing normal life skills to make them more well-rounded individuals."

It's great to see that we're not only doing it well, but doing it as well as the clubs that I respect most.

Re Lyon, I am on record as a massive Lyon fan, but he clearly had his shortcomings and it's disappointing to hear he may not have learned his lessons and taken them to Freo.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The bits about where we're at now are interesting:

"Behind the scenes, the AFLPA helps fight a daily battle, providing wellbeing programs and support for groups of players from each club with depression and other mental and drug-related illnesses.

Geelong, St Kilda, Hawthorn and Sydney are believed to be leaders in this area, but not every club is on board.
...

If the Saints were previously one of the biggest offenders in this area, the club's approach has changed completely.

Now, with the support of academy chief Tony Micale, and development coaches Jaymie Graham, Simon McPhee and Paul Hudson, players' "emotional needs are being fulfilled equal to their on-field development", Pelchen said.

It means Saints players spend regular sessions receiving counselling and developing normal life skills to make them more well-rounded individuals."

It's great to see that we're not only doing it well, but doing it as well as the clubs that I respect most.

Re Lyon, I am on record as a massive Lyon fan, but he clearly had his shortcomings and it's disappointing to hear he may not have learned his lessons and taken them to Freo.

There was a reason the Pelchen role was created. Unnecessary under Thomas it was needed under Lyon. ( THommo would be good at that role as well I think, if anyone ever poaches Pelch ).

 

[Squizz]

"(Michael Barlow) had a pre-season at St Kilda. Ross Lyon didn't think he was much of a footballer at that stage. He didn't take up the opportunity to take him on."

Barlow said Lyon remembered him from that trial "I was late to my first day. His first year at Freo he said 'You were great. I remember you from those years back then when you came down and we saw the potential but we went in a different direction'."

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

"(Michael Barlow) had a pre-season at St Kilda. Ross Lyon didn't think he was much of a footballer at that stage. He didn't take up the opportunity to take him on."

Barlow said Lyon remembered him from that trial "I was late to my first day. His first year at Freo he said 'You were great. I remember you from those years back then when you came down and we saw the potential but we went in a different direction'."

Ohhh, the pick up Pole, Peake, Lovett, Smith etc instead direction?

 

[sauce_head]

He is such a bloody knob (Lyon).

 

[Rors]

Ohhh, the pick up Pole, Peake, Lovett, Smith etc instead direction?

You forgot Pattinson & Gamble too

 

[Q TRAIN]

i can't fault Lyon for being too strict with players. Its also what makes him a good coach.

couldnt have been too strict, cos alot of our boys were doing stupid stuff off field while he was there.
But i do agree that the man could coach extremely well. He just didnt have great people skills IMO.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

You forgot Pattinson & Gamble too

Ehh while I was just randomly remembering names. I thought Pattinson was one of our most useful 'stupid trades'. He was actually necessary for a few games. And I thought his delisting was premature. Gamble was steak knives with King. And with what we got from King I'm more than okay with Geelong bundling them together.

 

[Squizz]

couldnt have been too strict, cos alot of our boys were doing stupid stuff off field while he was there.

Not so sure about that. Boarding school mentality - cooped up for too long, and lacking discipline when they get a bit of freedom (trying to make up for lost time).

 

[puppy_dog7]

Ehh while I was just randomly remembering names. I thought Pattinson was one of our most useful 'stupid trades'. He was actually necessary for a few games. And I thought his delisting was premature. Gamble was steak knives with King. And with what we got from King I'm more than okay with Geelong bundling them together.

Gamble wasn't steak knives.. Charlie Gardiner was the steak knives with kingy (another failed pickup). Gamble was picked up at the end of 2010

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Gamble wasn't steak knives.. Charlie Gardiner was the steak knives with kingy (another failed pickup). Gamble was picked up at the end of 2010

Correct you are. I shall now put Gamble in the aforementioned pile of turd.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

And Charlie Gardiner was more like one of those blunt knives, only good for spreading margarine. If you tried to cut steak with it , you got frustrated.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Sounds like Lyon was good at getting 100% out of the players like the Ancient Egyptians got 100% out of the guys who built the Pyramids.
Other teams seem to be able to do it in a sustainable manner.

 

[Highlander35]

Ross's Player strategy is fairly simple.

It's better to have a (n) star player who gives 100% output week in week out than a (n+1) star player who averages 80% output across the season.

In itself, this is not a bad thing. But this did stall the development of a number of players, and saw others leave. It also requires commitment to extreme levels, it batters bodies, and ends up relying on your top 10ish players so much.

I mean, how many games were one on the back of Riewoldt, Goddard, Dal Santo, Hayes, Joey, Fisher, Gilbert, Milne, Schneider & Gram alone?

 

[StingBitten]

Very interesting read guys.

I think some of the issues raised on this board are starting to seep into the collective consciousness of Fremantle supporters; as some questionable selection choices are being made regarding not bleeding younger players into the game or having personal favourites. These are all varying independent opinions; but I'll never understand the decision to cut Roberton (now for the saints), Nick Lower (WB) and Greg Broughton.