Ross Lyon

[Sweetback]

you agreed with me on free agency, the reasons you stated are exactly why hawthorn have an advantage there, so its not like you can easily replace your ageing core with ready made quality players, hence the need to have more emphasis on blooding the kids

What was it about free agency that I agreed about?

You're the only one pushing this blooding the kids palaver when we're chasing a top four spot. Even your fellow supporters don't agree with you.

 

[Sweetback]

It's a high risk / high reward strategy. win a flag and its genius. Don't win as we did then it goes pear shape. Regardless of this years outcome, I would hope your club has a small clean out to avoid the mistakes we made. Even if you win a flag, you still have to regenerate a few players the following year.

Our club didn't do that in 2011, partly due to Lyon's stubbornness in going back to his tried and tested players once we started winning... and most I suspect because of the crap recruiting in preceding years.

Hopefully you won't be bereft of young talent as we were.

We've already lost Sylvia and possibly Crowley this year. This will be McPharlin's last year as he had to convince his wife to be okay with him going around again last year. They're our mandatory turnover numbers but there aren't too many others in the 22 whose form warrants being turfed at the moment. I think a guy like Duffield will fall off quickly but he's a bit of workhorse so would be easy enough to replace eventually.

I don't think we have to worry about young talent. Ross hasn't had to handle recruiting at Freo and we're well stocked in most areas, but we'd look at a key back and maybe a key forward to top up the list at the end of the year. We and the Eagles have found it difficult luring players over via free agency, however. A former sandgroper like Rance would be ideal but who knows what's happening with that guy. That's not Ross's problem, though, our recruiting is handled by Bond and Lloyd.

 

[joop]

We've already lost Sylvia and possibly Crowley this year. This will be McPharlin's last year as he had to convince his wife to be okay with him going around again last year. They're our mandatory turnover numbers but there aren't too many others in the 22 whose form warrants being turfed at the moment. I think a guy like Duffield will fall off quickly but he's a bit of workhorse so would be easy enough to replace eventually.

I don't think we have to worry about young talent. Ross hasn't had to handle recruiting at Freo and we're well stocked in most areas, but we'd look at a key back and maybe a key forward to top up the list at the end of the year. We and the Eagles have found it difficult luring players over via free agency, however. A former sandgroper like Rance would be ideal but who knows what's happening with that guy. That's not Ross's problem, though, our recruiting is handled by Bond and Lloyd.

Yes but Ross isn't playing them, same thing we had with Armitage, Steven ect.

 

[Sweetback]

Yes but Ross isn't playing them, same thing we had with Armitage, Steven ect.

Almost half of our best 22 from last week is 25 or under:
Matt Taberner
Cameron Sutcliffe
Clancee Pearce
Lachie Neale
Matt de Boer
Michael Walters
Nat Fyfe
Nick Suban
Stephen Hill
Zac Clarke

 

[joop]

Almost half of our best 22 from last week is 25 or under:
Matt Taberner
Cameron Sutcliffe
Clancee Pearce
Lachie Neale
Matt de Boer
Michael Walters
Nat Fyfe
Nick Suban
Stephen Hill
Zac Clarke

And? After pav and co leave you thibk Clarke, Suban and de Boer will lead to a flag. They are bit players. Just as eddy & Mcqualter for us. You need to blood kids along with your stars, we know from experience from the same coach.

 

[Defacto]

And? After pav and co leave you thibk Clarke, Suban and de Boer will lead to a flag. They are bit players. Just as eddy & Mcqualter for us. You need to blood kids along with your stars, we know from experience from the same coach.

spot on. easier to replace the role players than it is to replace the engine of what drives the team. none of the blokes bar fyfe/walters/neale will be part of that engine and as i said take out mundy/mcpharlin/pav/sandi and that sides suddenly drops a fair way. then you add barlow/johnson etc and the pain gets worse

we never lost our core, its not like they retired and we fell off a cliff, as it got older it just couldnt perform to the same standard

in 2011 we started blooding some kids in the midfield but it was too little too late. its taken jack steven and david armitage time to establish themselves and you could argue that steven is still trying to find consistency

this idea that ross doesnt have to push the kids because they are challenging for a flag is the same shit we heard in 2010 early part of 2011

 

[Defacto]

What was it about free agency that I agreed about?

You're the only one pushing this blooding the kids palaver when we're chasing a top four spot. Even your fellow supporters don't agree with you.

bloody hell scroll up with your answer about hawthorn attracting free agents

 

[Sweetback]

Yeah but I could have said the same thing about North

 

[Sweetback]

And? After pav and co leave you thibk Clarke, Suban and de Boer will lead to a flag. They are bit players. Just as eddy & Mcqualter for us. You need to blood kids along with your stars, we know from experience from the same coach.

So who do think should come out of our 22 at the moment just so we can blood some extra kids, besides from the likes of Taberner and third and fourth year players who have established themselves in our best 22?

 

[joop]

So who do think should come out of our 22 at the moment just so we can blood some extra kids, besides from the likes of Taberner and third and fourth year players who have established themselves in our best 22?

Nah I think Tabener should stay in. And it doesn't have to be every week but players like de boer shouldn't be getting games ahead of Lachie Weller who's performed for a few weeks at WAFL level.
It's fine having those guys play in your best 22 now, but some younger players could match their output ( not every single week) and it would be better for the team in the future.
You can say what you want mate and defend your coach I get that, but the resemblance to his time at stkilda is uncanny, and everyone knows how well that ended for us and our list.

 

[Sweetback]

Nah I think Tabener should stay in. And it doesn't have to be every week but players like de boer shouldn't be getting games ahead of Lachie Weller who's performed for a few weeks at WAFL level.
It's fine having those guys play in your best 22 now, but some younger players could match their output ( not every single week) and it would be better for the team in the future.
You can say what you want mate and defend your coach I get that, but the resemblance to his time at stkilda is uncanny, and everyone knows how well that ended for us and our list.

There's no good reason to play an undersized Weller who wouldn't be able to run out a game given the workrate he'd have to match if he played in de Boer's place, even if he was a sub.
The knock on Ross in this thread was that he didn't develop the youth or give them a chance at first team footy, but he does develop them and gives them a shot if they can play a role, as evidenced by Alex Pearce just having been named for McPharlin.

People seem think that just because he did something at the Saints once means he'll do it again at Freo, but doing something once doesn't make it a pattern, and especially when the way the two clubs are run and resourced are completely different. At the end of next year he will have spent the same amount of time at Freo has he did at the Saints. I'll be watching with interest to see what happens in 2017.

 

[joop]

There's no good reason to play an undersized Weller who wouldn't be able to run out a game given the workrate he'd have to match if he played in de Boer's place, even if he was a sub.
The knock on Ross in this thread was that he didn't develop the youth or give them a chance at first team footy, but he does develop them and gives them a shot if they can play a role, as evidenced by Alex Pearce just having been named for McPharlin.

People seem think that just because he did something at the Saints once means he'll do it again at Freo, but doing something once doesn't make it a pattern, and especially when the way the two clubs are run and resourced are completely different. At the end of next year he will have spent the same amount of time at Freo has he did at the Saints. I'll be watching with interest to see what happens in 2017.

It's not if he'll do it again at freo, it's that he is doing it again at freo.

 

[Sweetback]

It's not if he'll do it again at freo, it's that he is doing it again at freo.

Yeah, we'll see.

 

[Freomaniac]

thats a cop out. for instance the game against WCE, instead of resting some of those 30+ and blooding the kids and putting pressure on selection the following week, nothing was doneblakely didnt get a gamebellard didnt get a gameweller didnt get a gamelangdon didnt get a gamehannath didnt get a gameapeness didnt get a gamepearce didnt get a gameand you know what...nothing will change. ross will go in with minimal changes and focused on winning so unless the kids can flick a switch and become the next mundy/mcpharlin/pav/sandi over night the drop off will come

Glad you posted this. Alex pearce will debut this weekend due to mcpharlins injury. I still reckon freo should get games into him and Rookie listed Van deleur until Dawson and silvagni returns. Blakely and weller will get games when fyfe, mundy or barlow is injured, which will happen. hannath is an ok ruckman but has Sandi, clarke and if fully fit, griffin in front of him.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

Its such an interesting contrast listening to the coaches after their games.. For example take Damian Hardwick, Richmond seriously under performing, his big statement after their losses is "On our day this team can beat any one".. lol And just on the weekend again after being undefeated and clear on top, resolute as he always is Ross Lyon "It (the win) Means nothing. Weve accomplished nothing!"
And this is the reason why Damian Hardwick will never win a premiership and why RL is about make his 5th Grand Final..
This takes me back to the point that im always making on here... Getting the head coach right is soooo important. He can create sustainable long term success or he can drag your cluv through medoicracy for the good part of 2 decades.

 

[Defacto]

Glad you posted this. Alex pearce will debut this weekend due to mcpharlins injury. I still reckon freo should get games into him and Rookie listed Van deleur until Dawson and silvagni returns. Blakely and weller will get games when fyfe, mundy or barlow is injured, which will happen. hannath is an ok ruckman but has Sandi, clarke and if fully fit, griffin in front of him.

Great to hear Pearce was played. Needs to happen more

Weller won't be there in 2 years time

 

[Freomaniac]

Great to hear Pearce was played. Needs to happen more
Weller won't be there in 2 years time

Alex Pearce has shown something a couple of kicks and a couple of hand balls plus a few spoils. we wont risk rushing McPharlin so Pearce will get another game. Pearce is only in his 2nd year. Weller wont leave freo yet...Weller is only in his 1st year plus Mundy, Mzugu and duffield are 30 and over.

 

[Defacto]

Alex Pearce has shown something a couple of kicks and a couple of hand balls plus a few spoils. we wont risk rushing McPharlin so Pearce will get another game. Pearce is only in his 2nd year. Weller wont leave freo yet...Weller is only in his 1st year plus Mundy, Mzugu and duffield are 30 and over.

He won't re-sign. Will wait out the next 18 months and then leave. Happy to revisit this later

 

[Freomaniac]

He won't re-sign. Will wait out the next 18 months and then leave. Happy to revisit this later

we will see... he would be stupid to walk out in 18 months, he is more likely to be traded. Again, he doesnt need to play every game this season, Freo have got a lot of fringe players that play their 15 odd games a season, like clancee pearce, suban, crozier, sutcliffe and neale.

 

[Freomaniac]

Yes but Ross isn't playing them, same thing we had with Armitage, Steven ect.

Name the last premiership sides that won a flag with a young list? 2006 eagles side is one, 1993 essndon side is another. go look at the swans and hawks. How many 1st year players are in the hawks and swans 22?

 

[Defacto]

Name the last premiership sides that won a flag with a young list? 2006 eagles side is one, 1993 essndon side is another. go look at the swans and hawks. How many 1st year players are in the hawks and swans 22?

Hawthorn 2008. pies 2010

 

[Defacto]

we will see... he would be stupid to walk out in 18 months, he is more likely to be traded. Again, he doesnt need to play every game this season, Freo have got a lot of fringe players that play their 15 odd games a season, like clancee pearce, suban, crozier, sutcliffe and neale.

Why would he be stupid too? Of course he's more likely to be traded but it will be to the club he chooses

 

[Freomaniac]

Why would he be stupid too? Of course he's more likely to be traded but it will be to the club he chooses

So it migh turn out to be like a polec/yeo trade... Still going by freos trend weller will get a game when fyfe, mundy or barlow get hit with an injury which is likely to happen.

 

[Defacto]

So it migh turn out to be like a polec/yeo trade... Still going by freos trend weller will get a game when fyfe, mundy or barlow get hit with an injury which is likely to happen.

His reason for leaving won't be for lack of game time, although that does just make it worse

 

[Freomaniac]

Hawthorn 2008. pies 2010

hawks I Agree. Pies is debateable. There were some old heads that left in 2010 that didnt play in the grand finals. Davis and Brown retired the next season. Still theres only 8 or 9 guys left in that magpies 2010 side.