Ross Lyon

[Duritz]

Hi guys.

Hope my question is taken in the spirit it's intended, as a genuine inquiry, because I'm genuinely keen to know what your thoughts are on Lyon. Has he sold the farm in a "boom or bust" attempt at a flag, or like Sheedy is he a long term coach who can achieve success while promoting youth?

Obviously at STK he was the former, do you think he's changed his stripes here?

 

[eastfreo75]

Name one kid who should have played under Lyons in Saints.

 

[rgauci]

Definitely not sold the farm, quite the opposite. He's promoted the kids who work hard and given them opportunity to grow. Walters, Neale, Sutcliffe have all cemented themselves in the 22. He traded away Broughton for a 2nd rounder. Plenty of games given to Sheridan, Crozier with the latter just playing an excellent final.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Hi guys.

Hope my question is taken in the spirit it's intended, as a genuine inquiry, because I'm genuinely keen to know what your thoughts are on Lyon. Has he sold the farm in a "boom or bust" attempt at a flag, or like Sheedy is he a long term coach who can achieve success while promoting youth?

Obviously at STK he was the former, do you think he's changed his stripes here?

Ross's job is to play the best players, the recruiters job is to pick the players, and development coaches should develop the players.

Our recruiting and development is way better than St Kilda, which is why Crozier, Fyfe, Taberner, Walters, Stucliffe, Neale and co have shown so much improvement in the last few years.

 

[Grape Bear]

Hi guys.

Hope my question is taken in the spirit it's intended, as a genuine inquiry, because I'm genuinely keen to know what your thoughts are on Lyon. Has he sold the farm in a "boom or bust" attempt at a flag, or like Sheedy is he a long term coach who can achieve success while promoting youth?

Obviously at STK he was the former, do you think he's changed his stripes here?

I think he's learned from some of his mistakes at the Saints, although his role in their lack of development is greatly exaggerated. He does have the advantage of having the sole responsibility of list management taken out his hands, and I think it has helped him to come into a system where his role as a coach was clearly defined from the outset.

He still has his tendency to pick known entities and his hard, mature bodies - but to be fair to him, he has been hired to try to get the side as deep as possible into the flag race. He was hired to get results, and he has gotten them for us. The pass mark for him every season is to at least consistently get the side into the finals, and it's a difficult task to find a balance between playing the future without sacrificing the present.

Apart from our backline, he has, to be fair, made some hard calls to drop our honest plodders and play our young ones. Suttcliffe, Neale, Sheridan, Duffy, Crozier, Taberner - all 2nd-3rd year players who got some runs on the board this year and have been picked over more senior incumbents (Suban, deBoer). He'll play the youth who show promise, and we have some coming up. We blooded Apeness, Duffy, and Simpson this year. Our recruitment team has plucked some gems late and we've been good at our rookie recruitment. 3 years into Lyons tenure, we're not falling apart just yet.

Much has been made about the age of our list, but a lot of people are forgetting that Mzungu, Spurr, and Barlow were all mature age rookies. Fyfe, Walters, Neale, Suttcliffe, Hill, Taberner, Crozier are all under 25. The main concern is that we haven't been able to play any of our young KPD's as Tanner Smith (same class as Taberner) has been out with injury all year. It's unfortunate as he surely would have had a run this season given how thin we were down back later on in the year.

Much of how the club will approach next year will depend on what the goal moving forward will be, as decided by the playing group and the club as a whole. Lyon, unfortunately, will wear it if he can't at least bring us to the finals and get us close one more time, especially after he got the club so close the last 3 seasons.

 

[Pusswah]

haha Fremantle lost, time for the confirmation bias brigade to have a crack at Lyon.

He's brought an era of previously unknown professionalism to Fremantle.

When he's running the show I know the guys will be in peak physical condition, the best prepared they can be tactically and the gameplan will be strategically sound. After the game it will be analysed and lessons learned, win or lose.

We have young blokes coming through being exposed to the game at the highest level and can look forward to building a team around one of the best under 25 players in the comp.





Not sure that's what you wanted to hear.

 

[Patty_Moz]

I have no massive problems with what he has done over his time here so far.

Whether it's purely him or the match committee he/ they definitely seems to give senior players a lot more lee-way with bad form (Pearce, Crowley, Clarke, Mayne, Sylvia) , but if a younger player has a bad game and they are dropped the next week.

While he has played some of the younger players over his time here, a lot of those games have simply been quarters of football as sub and then they are dropped the next week and pads out the amount of 'games' that he has given to our younger players.

The proof of whether he will blood and develop younger players will become more apparent over the next few years as a lot of our older players need to be replaced and time will tell whether he wants to play our kids or just bring in FA's from other sides.

EDIT: And what pusswah said

 

[Belele]

Love the job he has done/is doing. Clearly the best recruiting move we have ever made and is blooding plenty of youth. In the presses I think he said we are top 4 for under 24's on our list.

It's probably only in my head, but the only knock I have on him is that he is comes across as being very regimented and stats focussed.

Not sure what goes on behind closed doors, but I just cant see him giving the boys are rousing emotional get up to put some fire in their belly pregame/half time. Whilst they should be professional and be able to get themselves up, footy is an emotional game and that can help sometimes.

 

[pokerspiv]

He's a very good coach. I disagree with a lot of his tactical decisions (mostly picking the wrong guys, e.g. playing De Boer over Lachie Neale and making Neale the sub in the 2013 gf was a terrible mistake imo. I also think we persisted far too long with too many defensive forwards this year, and should have been playing guys like Crozier and Taberner all year) but you can't argue that he doesn't get the best out of the players who do play.

 

[estibador]

...but you can't argue that he doesn't get the best out of the players who do play.

This is the key role of a coach for mine.

If we don't win a premiership in the next couple of years the usual witchhunt will start that Lyon should be sacked because he's coached for X years for 0 premierships, but that ignores the fact that if he's getting the best out of the group no other coach would be able to do any better.

Unless Clarkson suddenly decides he wants to move to Perth we've probably got the best coach we're going to get, now it's up to the recruiters to find enough talent for him to work with.

 

[Cobbler]

This is the key role of a coach for mine.

If we don't win a premiership in the next couple of years the usual witchhunt will start that Lyon should be sacked because he's coached for X years for 0 premierships, but that ignores the fact that if he's getting the best out of the group no other coach would be able to do any better.

Unless Clarkson suddenly decides he wants to move to Perth we've probably got the best coach we're going to get, now it's up to the recruiters to find enough talent for him to work with.

I could coach the Hawks. As Bolton did. They run themselves. Clarkson basically oversees it.

 

[rgauci]

Since Lyon took over as Coach 2011/12 preseason.

Lachie Neale - drafted at pick 55 in 2011, career totally under Ross Lyon, 46 games experience, cemented his spot in the side this year, BOG versus West Coast earlier in the year, very consistent for a 21 y.o.

Cameron Sutcliffe - drafted at pick 71 in 2011, career totally under Ross Lyon, 44 games experience, cemented his spot last year, solid half back flanker. Got physically dominated in the GF but has improved strength this year. Just turned 22.

Michael Walters - drafted pick 53 in 2008, 11 games prior to being coached by Ross Lyon. Banished to WAFL by Lyon in the 2011/12 preseason. The rest is history. Recently mentioned to be a 'training beast'. 50 games experience.

Matthew Taberner - drafted as a 1st round rookie selection 2012, 13 games in 2 seasons. Very raw key position player. 21y.o.

Crozier (draft 2011 pick 20) 23 games, Sheridan (draft 2011 pick 16) 19 games are a couple others given opportunity.

The problem with our list; is we should be seeing the best of Rhys Palmer (Pick 7 2007), Morabito (pick 4 2009), Pitt (pick 20 2010). 3 first rounds pick that have gone knee, knee x3, heart condition. Palmer pre knee was a midfield maestro, much was made of his poor kicking but it would have improved with time. He was a rising star that year. Instead of seeing our midfield depth struggling on the field, we should have these 3 first rounders contributing. Lucky we found Barlow (rookie), Fyfe (2nd round), Neale (3rd round) in the latter reaches of the draft.

 

[Duritz]

Good points guys, but I do have one query: GF in 2013, straight sets in 2014, isn't that essentially exactly the same as STK but in a shorter timeframe?

 

[Duritz]

Since Lyon took over as Coach 2011/12 preseason.

Lachie Neale - drafted at pick 55 in 2011, career totally under Ross Lyon, 46 games experience, cemented his spot in the side this year, BOG versus West Coast earlier in the year, very consistent for a 21 y.o.

Cameron Sutcliffe - drafted at pick 71 in 2011, career totally under Ross Lyon, 44 games experience, cemented his spot last year, solid half back flanker. Got physically dominated in the GF but has improved strength this year. Just turned 22.

Michael Walters - drafted pick 53 in 2008, 11 games prior to being coached by Ross Lyon. Banished to WAFL by Lyon in the 2011/12 preseason. The rest is history. Recently mentioned to be a 'training beast'. 50 games experience.

Matthew Taberner - drafted as a 1st round rookie selection 2012, 13 games in 2 seasons. Very raw key position player. 21y.o.

Crozier (draft 2011 pick 20) 23 games, Sheridan (draft 2011 pick 16) 19 games are a couple others given opportunity.

The problem with our list; is we should be seeing the best of Rhys Palmer (Pick 7 2007), Morabito (pick 4 2009), Pitt (pick 20 2010). 3 first rounds pick that have gone knee, knee x3, heart condition. Palmer pre knee was a midfield maestro, much was made of his poor kicking but it would have improved with time. He was a rising star that year. Instead of seeing our midfield depth struggling on the field, we should have these 3 first rounders contributing. Lucky we found Barlow (rookie), Fyfe (2nd round), Neale (3rd round) in the latter reaches of the draft.

Yeah I know you've drafted players, not questioning that, it's more their development that concerns me.

 

[Ausbenito]

Since Lyon took over as Coach 2011/12 preseason.

Lachie Neale - drafted at pick 55 in 2011, career totally under Ross Lyon, 46 games experience, cemented his spot in the side this year, BOG versus West Coast earlier in the year, very consistent for a 21 y.o.

Cameron Sutcliffe - drafted at pick 71 in 2011, career totally under Ross Lyon, 44 games experience, cemented his spot last year, solid half back flanker. Got physically dominated in the GF but has improved strength this year. Just turned 22.

Michael Walters - drafted pick 53 in 2008, 11 games prior to being coached by Ross Lyon. Banished to WAFL by Lyon in the 2011/12 preseason. The rest is history. Recently mentioned to be a 'training beast'. 50 games experience.

Matthew Taberner - drafted as a 1st round rookie selection 2012, 13 games in 2 seasons. Very raw key position player. 21y.o.

Crozier (draft 2011 pick 20) 23 games, Sheridan (draft 2011 pick 16) 19 games are a couple others given opportunity.

The problem with our list; is we should be seeing the best of Rhys Palmer (Pick 7 2007), Morabito (pick 4 2009), Pitt (pick 20 2010). 3 first rounds pick that have gone knee, knee x3, heart condition. Palmer pre knee was a midfield maestro, much was made of his poor kicking but it would have improved with time. He was a rising star that year. Instead of seeing our midfield depth struggling on the field, we should have these 3 first rounders contributing. Lucky we found Barlow (rookie), Fyfe (2nd round), Neale (3rd round) in the latter reaches of the draft.

Spot on Gauci it is our first picks that have sadly stopped us you can add Simpson to that Morabito in particular would have been that outside running beast kicking goals from the 50 arc all we can do is try and get the next one right. Lyon is definitely not the problem and should be given an extension soon enough.

 

[Halfbaked]

Yeah I know you've drafted players, not questioning that, it's more their development that concerns me.

Didn't rgauci just point out how well some of our young player have been played and developing . You can add several kids who had bad injury problems to that list as well.

A quote from Lyon last night.
"I don't talk about windows. All I know is we've got a really young group. If you take out our three oldest, we sit in the top-four for games for players under 24. And we've debuted a number of players and discovered some and we'll continue to grow and build. So everyone can have their opinion. We believe that we'll improve and grow. But everyone is entitled to their opinion. But at the end of the day, proof is in the pudding."

 

[rgauci]

Yeah I know you've drafted players, not questioning that, it's more their development that concerns me.

Poor answer, shows a lack of insight. Lyon's been at the club 3 seasons not 10. We've gone from a club that's made a handful of finals in 17 years to playing in 3 consecutive finals series for the first time in our history (first time we've gone finals back to back). So purely from that point of view we've 'developed'. If he couldn't develop players we would have gone backwards. Not every year is going to be an upward trend, its not that simple.

Fyfe from very good to champion. Walters from rubbish heap to top 5 small forward in the league. Hill from flaky winger to consistent performer. Neale, draftee to good midfielder. Sutcliffe from draftee to good half back flanker. Ibbotson and Duffield from flaky to consistent. Johnson from scrap heap to all Australian. Ballantyne from OK to borderline all Australian this year. 4 players in our best 22 last night have been drafted since 2011. 16 of our 22 were brought to the club since our rebuild year of 2008. That is an amazing statistic.

I've got no problem with his development. Very few have gone backwards, if any. The fact we've gone from middle of the table to top 6 isn't just a game plan change. People think we'll fall off the face of the earth without Pav and Sandilands, time will tell. I can't see it happening.

Lastly if you want to talk about drafting players, debuting them and not developing them, look at your own club. Polec for instance.

 

[freoextra]

I simply love that RTB has got us off the Richmond like treadmill. For the first time in our history we have a hard nosed team that is basically always competitive.

This year is a failure, but I can see that we were just 2 or 3 injuries away from challenging for the gf. Even our injury management has gone from horrible to well managed, what you can't do is ask players to compete fearlessly and then not cop some contact injuries on occasion (Walters, Ballas, Johnson, Mayne). Sometimes luck plays a part and that is why I admire Hawthorn this year, they have had a run of really poor luck but have hung in and now in my mind will win the gf.

We have plenty in reserve despite not having had a early draft pick in years.

 

[salim malik]

Hi guys.

Hope my question is taken in the spirit it's intended, as a genuine inquiry, because I'm genuinely keen to know what your thoughts are on Lyon. Has he sold the farm in a "boom or bust" attempt at a flag, or like Sheedy is he a long term coach who can achieve success while promoting youth?

Obviously at STK he was the former, do you think he's changed his stripes here?

Go away ,if you can find a forum to kick Lyon your'e in like a rat up a drain pipe
Freo supporters are sick of your anti Lyon bullshit
Piss of back to your own loser teams board ,your'e not welcome here

 

[eastfreo75]

Good points guys, but I do have one query: GF in 2013, straight sets in 2014, isn't that essentially exactly the same as STK but in a shorter timeframe?

We had only one key back, and ballatyne our best pressure player out the side. With Ballatyne we win 2/3 of the time without him we 7 from 22.

Take two of your best tall backs out and plus your best depth tall back, most teams would struggle especially against class opposition.

 

[The Black Sheep]

I've got no problem with his development. Very few have gone backwards, if any. The fact we've gone from middle of the table to top 6 isn't just a game plan change. People think we'll fall off the face of the earth without Pav and Sandilands, time will tell. I can't see it happening.

Funny how people still have that perception, given last year was our best ever and both missed virtually all of the H&A season.

 

[MadMac]

Lastly if you want to talk about drafting players, debuting them and not developing them, look at your own club. Polec for instance.

I agree with the rest but this is a but unfair. Polec didn't want to be there. That has nothing to do with developing.

 

[Duritz]

Poor answer, shows a lack of insight. Lyon's been at the club 3 seasons not 10. We've gone from a club that's made a handful of finals in 17 years to playing in 3 consecutive finals series for the first time in our history (first time we've gone finals back to back). So purely from that point of view we've 'developed'. If he couldn't develop players we would have gone backwards. Not every year is going to be an upward trend, its not that simple.

Fyfe from very good to champion. Walters from rubbish heap to top 5 small forward in the league. Hill from flaky winger to consistent performer. Neale, draftee to good midfielder. Sutcliffe from draftee to good half back flanker. Ibbotson and Duffield from flaky to consistent. Johnson from scrap heap to all Australian. Ballantyne from OK to borderline all Australian this year. 4 players in our best 22 last night have been drafted since 2011. 16 of our 22 were brought to the club since our rebuild year of 2008. That is an amazing statistic.

I've got no problem with his development. Very few have gone backwards, if any. The fact we've gone from middle of the table to top 6 isn't just a game plan change. People think we'll fall off the face of the earth without Pav and Sandilands, time will tell. I can't see it happening.

Lastly if you want to talk about drafting players, debuting them and not developing them, look at your own club. Polec for instance.

Polec was injured, actually. Would've been reckless to play an injured player, IMO.

 

[passmark]

Name one kid who should have played under Lyons in Saints.

This sums up my feelings entirely.

Those Saints sides where full of hacks. Lyon getting them there is borderline genius.

People also forget that Grant Thomas had them finishing near the top a fair bit as well. That affects your drafting ability.

The Saints recognised they were shit in this and poached the Great Pelchen from the Hawks to overcome it.

 

[UFO Tatsu]

why is duritz able to create threads on here?