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Analysis Ross Lyon

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I think the gist of the last few pages is on the money - can't blame Ross for drafting mistakes from 2007, 2010 (extra bad), 2012 etc. He's doing phenomenal with what he's got to work with.

Eagles had 8 first rounders out there yesterday, think we had 4.

Ross should be lauded for getting us in the hunt at all.
 
ydraw said:
Why do we have to hope this?

Anybody could play Mayne's role. Crozier is the main guy who could be playing Mayne's role. But more appropriately, a taller player could be playing Mayne's role. At least the taller player will decoy a key backman away from our real targets (pavlich and walters). You see how Tarrant destroyed us yesterday with only 1 tall in the forward line. Almost exactly like Lake in the 2013 GF.

Playing only 1 tall forward doesn't work. I have no idea why our match committee can't see that.

I don't care who plays forward alongside Pavlich. Play Zac Dawson there for all I care. But stop playing midfielders as key forwards, it's ******* shit and never works.
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I thought A Pearce a 200 cm tall is playing alongside Pav .Griff has been forward as well.Taberner has been down there.Where you get this idea of one tall from is just not correct.Anybody can't play Maynes role and Crosier certainly can't.We have had Pav,Pearce,Griff and Mayne all down there together.Time you got your facts right.
 
salim malik said:
I thought A Pearce a 200 cm tall is playing alongside Pav .Griff has been forward as well.Taberner has been down there.Where you get this idea of one tall from is just not correct.
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Pav didn't play on the weekend. And we didn't select Taberner. So we played with A Pearce as our only tall. And predictably got destroyed by their KPDs.
 
One thing we all despise is the persistent bombing to the opposition key backs set up 20m out straight out from our goals.Result, opposition marks the footy and a quick rebound occurs.

How do we rectify this?Pull the kick closer to the pocket which hopefully enables us to spoil the ball out of bounds,thus allowing us to structure up resulting in the footy being locked in forward 50 for an extended amount of time.
 

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malpaso said:
Pretty sure we saw an indication of what Walters will be doing in the Finals with his performance against the Roos. He was up at the centre bounces and much more active up the ground. Crozier was back like Ballantyne would be although it was hard to tell because he was practically invisible.
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And his tackling (Crozier) was pathetic. Good call about Sonny though.
 
ydraw said:
Pav didn't play on the weekend. And we didn't select Taberner. So we played with A Pearce as our only tall. And predictably got destroyed by their KPDs.
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Thats wrong ,Griff was parked at full forward.Tabs at the minute is a liability . Griff wouldn't be any where near full forward if Tabs was showing any kind of form.
 
free at last said:
One thing we all despise is the persistent bombing to the opposition key backs set up 20m out straight out from our goals.Result, opposition marks the footy and a quick rebound occurs.

How do we rectify this?Pull the kick closer to the pocket which hopefully enables us to spoil the ball out of bounds,thus allowing us to structure up resulting in the footy being locked in forward 50 for an extended amount of time.
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At the start of the season we were bulleting in passes to leading fowards running 45 degree leads out from the square, rather than bombing to the top of the square (those final kick bullet passes were practised all pre-season). We had Clarke, Mayne, Pav from memory and Ballas and Walters - and it was a well functioning and efficient forward line. Clarke lost his mojo, Ballas is out, and we're suffering a bit reverting to old habits.

I'm not sure whether we changed the way we play due to teams working us out - or because of cattle dropping in form and needing to change. I sometimes wonder how much work gets done in the pre-season in learning a new gameplan, and how much changing it mid-year screws with the player's understanding of 'what to do, where to go, where to kick'. It's great that we assume that the whole team can magically learn a plan B, C, D overnight (and execute it perfectly) - but we haven't been playing our plan A for a while now.
 
blue shark said:
but we have also stopped playing for each other, and lost that
hunger for the contest,
Also the forward line is a disaster playing only one tall, get back to basics, win the
contests, and the hard ball, we have looked soft for awhile.
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I don't think hunger for the contest is an issue. We can't/won't have a clear advantage there ... all good teams have it. It is impossible for us to play in that manic style we did for a period in 2013 - it is just not possible. Agree we need more than one tall up forward.
 
Arcassius said:
At the start of the season we were bulleting in passes to leading fowards running 45 degree leads out from the square, rather than bombing to the top of the square (those final kick bullet passes were practised all pre-season). We had Clarke, Mayne, Pav from memory and Ballas and Walters - and it was a well functioning and efficient forward line. Clarke lost his mojo, Ballas is out, and we're suffering a bit reverting to old habits.

I'm not sure whether we changed the way we play due to teams working us out - or because of cattle dropping in form and needing to change. I sometimes wonder how much work gets done in the pre-season in learning a new gameplan, and how much changing it mid-year screws with the player's understanding of 'what to do, where to go, where to kick'. It's great that we assume that the whole team can magically learn a plan B, C, D overnight (and execute it perfectly) - but we haven't been playing our plan A for a while now.
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Old habits die hard.
 
free at last said:
One thing we all despise is the persistent bombing to the opposition key backs set up 20m out straight out from our goals.Result, opposition marks the footy and a quick rebound occurs.

How do we rectify this?Pull the kick closer to the pocket which hopefully enables us to spoil the ball out of bounds,thus allowing us to structure up resulting in the footy being locked in forward 50 for an extended amount of time.
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Sorry but this is one of the stranger posts on here for a while. Are you really suggesting the plan when kicking inside 50 should be to head for the boundary?
 
salim malik said:
Thats wrong ,Griff was parked at full forward.Tabs at the minute is a liability . Griff wouldn't be any where near full forward if Tabs was showing any kind of form.
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We have always played 2 ruckmen, nothing has changed there. We selected one less tall forward on the weekend and predictably got destroyed by tall defenders.
 
salim malik said:
Thats wrong ,Griff was parked at full forward.Tabs at the minute is a liability . Griff wouldn't be any where near full forward if Tabs was showing any kind of form.
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I think you conceded elsewhere that Griffin doesn't impact the contest unless it lands on top of him. He is unlikely to take a pack mark but at least Tabs is mobile with size and can run around a bit on the lead and blow up one of their talls.
 

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Repeated here from the autopsy thread.

Frustrating as hell how we are going at the moment after such a bright start to the year. Our percentage probably tells us where we rank in the scheme of things. A couple of solid close wins during the season has meant we earned home finals.. lets hope we can capitalise on it.
Team selection is really becoming a problem imo creating structural issues on the field.

Griff - We can't afford to have 2 lumbering ruckmen, as was said earlier Griff can't get to enough arial contests. Got to persist with Clarke, he was playing OK earlier in the year and I think he was dropped during that period where we had weeks of wet games, tough for talls.
Mayne - starting to cop plenty on here but he always best as a 3rd tall. He is not big enough to hold a key post, needs Pav/Pearce or Pearce/Tabs structure with him to have an impact.
DeBoer - sub selection is straight out stupid, can't believe that stuff to be honest. Can't carry him, Mzungu, Suban, Barlow in the team now. At least Suban can kick and Barlow can mark. Not sure what's gone wrong with Mz - hope he can turn it around.
Walters - a fantastic player and a very good lead and mark... but our lack of forward size and strucutre structure means he can't use his real strengths which is crumbing. He would of cut Firrito, Tarrant, Thompson, Hansen apart yesterday if we had Tabs and Pearce to at least bring the ball to ground. Would have given Crozier the chance to do the same.
Sherro - I would be tempted to push him into the midfield and bring Clancee in.
D Pearce - I don't know, surely we can find a better ball user for this job (Sherro?)

Some of the good...
Agree that duff is gone and replaced by Sherro, both good kicks.
Anything else?

No moves made during the game to get some structure up there (except Fyfe)... MJ, McParlin, even Ibbo could have had a run up there to provide a contest.
 
ydraw said:
We have always played 2 ruckmen, nothing has changed there. We selected one less tall forward on the weekend and predictably got destroyed by tall defenders.
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Explain the WC game where Pearce,Pav,Griff,Sandi ,Mayne and Johnno at different stages where forward and we got destroyed by the smallest defence in the comp.Your argument re lack of tall forwards for the reason for our losses do not hold water.
 
ydraw said:
We have always played 2 ruckmen, nothing has changed there. We selected one less tall forward on the weekend and predictably got destroyed by tall defenders.
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The delivery and decision making going into the forward line is the problem. Crozier for example should have run the legs off of his defender, he decided to be lazy instead.
 
salim malik said:
Explain the WC game where Pearce,Pav,Griff,Sandi ,Mayne and Johnno at different stages where forward and we got destroyed by the smallest defence in the comp.Your argument re lack of tall forwards for the reason for our losses do not hold water.
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I don't really need an argument to suggest that we should go with the same set up that every team has used in the history of the game.

2 dedicated tall forwards and a resting ruckmen.

Ross Lyon has not cracked the code. 2 dedicated tall forwards and a resting ruckman is the standard for a reason.

Going in with only 1 tall forward means that our talls are fighting 2 vs 1 battles every time the ball comes in long. It's not rocket science. Brian Lake won the Norm Smith medal destroying us this way in 2013. Robbie Tarrant was BOG for North yesterday doing the exact same thing.
 
ydraw said:
I don't really need an argument to suggest that we should go with the same set up that every team has used in the history of the game.

2 dedicated tall forwards and a resting ruckmen.

Ross Lyon has not cracked the code. 2 dedicated tall forwards and a resting ruckman is the standard for a reason.

Going in with only 1 tall forward means that our talls are fighting 2 vs 1 battles every time the ball comes in long. It's not rocket science. Brian Lake won the Norm Smith medal destroying us this way in 2013. Robbie Tarrant was BOG for North yesterday doing the exact same thing.
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We are not going in with one tall forward .You are oblivious to facts.Pearce,Pav,Griff,.If Pearce and Pav were not 2 tall forwards against WC please explain why.
Tabs is out for a reason,he did not go in hard enough hence a 200cm player is replacing him.I will say it again Pav and Pearce to 2 tall forwards and Griff and Sandi helping out.As conventional a set up as you can get.
 
salim malik said:
We are not going in with one tall forward .You are oblivious to facts.Pearce,Pav,Griff,.If Pearce and Pav were not 2 tall forwards against WC please explain why.
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I am talking about this week's game. Not West Coast. I have said this multiple times now. Let it sink in.
 

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theGav56 said:
What a terrible idea. Select players because they are tall even if they are not playing decent football. Absolutely rubbish.
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It's not rubbish, all they gotta do is bring the ball to ground and let Walters, Croz and Mayne have a chance. Our structure is crap and playing one proper tall forward is the reason.
 
salim malik said:
No you said we never play 2 tall forwards.
This week was not the norm with Pav out injured. Griff started at full and with Pearce was our 2 talls.
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This week was one only, Griff is a resting ruckman not a tall mobile forward who can get to contests and draw a defender.
Last week we asked Johnno to play second tall defender (with Sivagni!!!) because of Zac's brain fart. AP was always likely to be needed down back to help versus 2 very good tall forwards and so it played out, we only had one tall forward, an injury hobbled Pav!
 
salim malik said:
No you said we never play 2 tall forwards.
This week was not the norm with Pav out injured. Griff started at full and with Pearce was our 2 talls.
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Usually we have 3. This week we had 2. They could have selected another but they didn't. This is really not a complicated concept.
 

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