List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked
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Norm Smith Medallist
- Jul 30, 2009
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Would it have been poor management if we had won a flag?
Yes that was always the dilemma. Ross's gameplan required mature players and role players and once the campaign was over the list is junky. It was worth the punt, but now we have the pain.
No one disputes (and that now includes the board and CEO) that Freo’s poor list management and flawed model for achieving sustained success - which pre-dated Lyon - is what necessitated the full cleanout and rebuild. The List Manager’s and footy boss’s role is to give the coach the best possible tools to succeed, and Lloyd and Bond were never in the same universe as Mark Evans and Graham Wright in that regard.
The fact that Ross nearly pulled off a premiership with a vastly inferior list does not change that one iota. The club clearly recognises that now. Better late than never.
The fact that Ross nearly pulled off a premiership with a vastly inferior list does not change that one iota. The club clearly recognises that now. Better late than never.
You have to have the right system though and clearly Ross's isn't/wasn't. Geelong beat it fair and square and Collingwood did too. Clarko picked it apart and still is, and so are his protege's. Time to come up with a successful system like the Tigers have.
I think you are overlooking some pretty poor drafting in Rounds 1-3 having a lot do with it. We are thin on cattle (paying for failed first round picks) and to heap misery on that our constant injuries are beyond annoying. To simply look at the Head Coach as being the reason for us 'underperforming' is a flawed approach.
Hawks are not and have not been in a rebuild.
How many wins did you see before this season started?
Lol, how is the Tigers system any different? They flood back, pressure the ball carrier, and go over the top forward..
Sounds pretty similar to how we played from '13-'15
Nightrain
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Cue Billy Connolly: "If you give the ball to me... I'll give it to him. Then he can give it to him, who can then give it to..... Hey Alec? Do you want the ball? Yeah?... then he can give it to Alec".
If only we could trade for game plans...
I'd disagree with this. We were a very stoppage focused team, using our midfield brigade to maul the ball forward rather than fluent bursts that you see from Richmond.
Dusty in full flight is a joy to watch.
That has no relevance, i was just mesmerised by his game last night.
freo84
Norm Smith Medallist
Give old Rossy another year with this new bunch and see what diamonds he can squeeze out. I reckon we got some great young talented fellas and while the back half of 2018 was horrible and really disappointing, the first half was good and we played some nice football. We may not play finals but if we can close the gap between our best and worst and become more consistently competitive then that's a win.
I only hope the Rossco has it in him.
I only hope the Rossco has it in him.
Exactly. We need to see progress by closing the gap between best and worst, being more competitive in more games and for longer. Need to see this second half of the season breakdown gone forever. Fix the conditioning of the players and the performances will improve. It’s not rocket science,...it sports science.
I think Richmond (and the Dogs in their premiership year) play(ed) a lot more like we did in '13-'15 than like the Hawks did/do. Sure there are differences but the key fundamental for all three teams was/is pressure to create turnovers and rebound - the further upfield the turnover happens, the better.
Dogs were much better at rebounding and attacking from defence (especially from deep in defence), and that is something we've since focused on and improved. And suspect we'll continue to improve when Wilson et al get the confidence to run the ball out of defence more, and our players up field spread better.
Richmond try to lock the ball forward just like we did but as others have said don't rely on stoppages to move the ball like we did and instead just keep the ball moving at all costs. I personally think we look pretty good when we do the same. Obviously we don't have the experienced big bodies of Richmond yet (to back ourselves to win the vast majority of 1v1 contests) but I still prefer it to getting too cute (Hawks style) with uncontested ball movement that often results in very costly turnovers.
I do have some concerns that we are trying to mash together too many different styles and it might be too confusing for our players but I also know our players often aren't executing things the way they are being coached to (everything I have seen at training and heard from the coach - he wants us to play on fast and not have to resort to just kicking down the line all the time, and to keep structure as much as possible), so it's hard to tell for certain just yet.
I wouldn't put any guarantees that what Ross and co have been working on will come to fruition next year but I also think we need to be a bit patient and let it play out before giving up completely. Other teams have proven you can go from basket case to guns in a very short period of time. Crossing my fingers as our youngsters continue maturing and our team becomes more used to playing with (and trusting) each other that we'll get a far better sense of where we are at next season.
I think the fundamentals of football are pretty simple and earlier in the year I saw plenty of glimpses of really good football by us. Somehow we've got to get our team doing it 75-90% of the time, rather than just 10-25% though. We can't fade out as much next season. After watching Melbourne with Oliver, Brayshaw and Petracca I'm bullish guys like our Brayshaw, Cerra etc can make a huge impact in a couple of years - they are tracking along nicely when you compare them at the same age.
Dogs were much better at rebounding and attacking from defence (especially from deep in defence), and that is something we've since focused on and improved. And suspect we'll continue to improve when Wilson et al get the confidence to run the ball out of defence more, and our players up field spread better.
Richmond try to lock the ball forward just like we did but as others have said don't rely on stoppages to move the ball like we did and instead just keep the ball moving at all costs. I personally think we look pretty good when we do the same. Obviously we don't have the experienced big bodies of Richmond yet (to back ourselves to win the vast majority of 1v1 contests) but I still prefer it to getting too cute (Hawks style) with uncontested ball movement that often results in very costly turnovers.
I do have some concerns that we are trying to mash together too many different styles and it might be too confusing for our players but I also know our players often aren't executing things the way they are being coached to (everything I have seen at training and heard from the coach - he wants us to play on fast and not have to resort to just kicking down the line all the time, and to keep structure as much as possible), so it's hard to tell for certain just yet.
I wouldn't put any guarantees that what Ross and co have been working on will come to fruition next year but I also think we need to be a bit patient and let it play out before giving up completely. Other teams have proven you can go from basket case to guns in a very short period of time. Crossing my fingers as our youngsters continue maturing and our team becomes more used to playing with (and trusting) each other that we'll get a far better sense of where we are at next season.
I think the fundamentals of football are pretty simple and earlier in the year I saw plenty of glimpses of really good football by us. Somehow we've got to get our team doing it 75-90% of the time, rather than just 10-25% though. We can't fade out as much next season. After watching Melbourne with Oliver, Brayshaw and Petracca I'm bullish guys like our Brayshaw, Cerra etc can make a huge impact in a couple of years - they are tracking along nicely when you compare them at the same age.
Yeah been thinking about this a bit.
He must start playing players in areas of strength.
We brought Matera in as a goal kicking forward. He should not be running around on the half back flank.
What was noticeable about Melbourne last night was how deep Weideman and McDonald play.
They trust the midfield/backs to do the job.
We have players similar, Cox, Dixon and Tabs. Play them there...or two of them with Mundy/Rozee as the third tall.
Surround them with Walters, Matera and Switta
Midfielders must play midfield.
If Logue is fit, or even if he isn’t I don’t want to see S Hill or Blakely any where near half back.
They need to form part of that hard running midfield group.
If Neale goes, the group becomes Fyfe, Cerra, S Hill, Blakely, Cerra, Brayshaw, Crowden, North and hopefully Bailey Smith.
The wings are Langdon and Brad Hill
The backs must be given licence to attack the ball and move the ball quick. We cannot be stagnant.
Darcy must start as ruck from the start of the year. Sandi only used if injury is an issue
He must start playing players in areas of strength.
We brought Matera in as a goal kicking forward. He should not be running around on the half back flank.
What was noticeable about Melbourne last night was how deep Weideman and McDonald play.
They trust the midfield/backs to do the job.
We have players similar, Cox, Dixon and Tabs. Play them there...or two of them with Mundy/Rozee as the third tall.
Surround them with Walters, Matera and Switta
Midfielders must play midfield.
If Logue is fit, or even if he isn’t I don’t want to see S Hill or Blakely any where near half back.
They need to form part of that hard running midfield group.
If Neale goes, the group becomes Fyfe, Cerra, S Hill, Blakely, Cerra, Brayshaw, Crowden, North and hopefully Bailey Smith.
The wings are Langdon and Brad Hill
The backs must be given licence to attack the ball and move the ball quick. We cannot be stagnant.
Darcy must start as ruck from the start of the year. Sandi only used if injury is an issue
I think some of you guys are too kind about RTB, this year has really been the last straw for me and I’m voting with my membership by not renewing. I’ve been a full blown, ridgy didge card carrying Freo member since 1995 after being a quay club member, so it’s not something I take lightly. I’ll come back, but something has to change.
Totally your right to come and go as you please (I have).
Don't you think things are changing with the list manager and Footy Manager going?
I am excited by the thought of Peter Bell in the role - seriously wont be pushed around.
I will however be disappointed if we dont make a move on some of the coaching staff to have some higher profile coaching staff who will challenge Ross. Unfortunately with the bad vibe coming out of Freo land I doubt we can get the Voss or Hird standard but how about McPharlin or Spurr.
Or would you only be staisfied with the sacking of the coach. In that case, you are probably better of having a break.
Good for you. It’s your only real way of having a say. Why reward them if you don’t think they’re doing the right thing.
freo84
Norm Smith Medallist
Just curious - What would you like to see change?
Arcassius
Team Chaplain
Do you have one or two seats currently, and where?
Good for you. I however could not disagree more. I am surprised though that you stuck through some of the earlier years but aren’t prepared to now.
I think we are a well run club off the field and you never hear leaks coming out from within the club.
I also think Ross is a very coach, he just needs time with the young players. Melbourne has been developing for 6-8 years and only stringing together some really good performances now - it takes time to for everything to gel. We actually played some good footy in the first half of the season when we were healthier and the young players were fresher. I think if we can keep drafting talent that can impact forward of centre (ie Rozee/Smith), we will have a very good nucleus for future years.
I think we have made mistakes, mainly in 2016 trying to emulate a Hawthorn style game style rather than the forward half pressure game that kept us engrained in finals between 2012 and 2015. I also think bringing in some new faces might reenergise the footy club.
But as supporters, it’s totally normal to be impatient but you only have to look around the league to see that persistence pays off (ie Melbourne, Richmond, Collingwood). I’ll stick to what I know about Ross, ie great relationships and support from senior players, previous sustained periods near the top of the ladder, rather than listen to the hysteria in the media and from the odd supporter.
As Clarkson said, footy is mostly about system and I trust Ross is the man for the job. So just as you are not going renew, I am happily going to renew mine with optimism for the years ahead.
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Hackdorn just responded to a question on why cera re-signed if the culture is so toxic. He answered because he is being paid a crap load of money.
He also said bond is saying nice things because of a big severance package
He also said bond is saying nice things because of a big severance package
Never had seats allocated as I was always a country member, (no puns) and we don’t get allocations, but tickets are always available to us as members. Just hop on the Freo flyer in Busso and head up for the day.
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When Freo win a premiership I hope some of us track him down, paint him purple and strap him to a post on the cappuccino strip in Freo for the night
