Rotator Cuff/AC Joint weight exercises

[Kong]

i have an old football injury, my left shoulder clicks and when lifted in certain ways feels as if the muscle fibres are ready to snap. it's manageable, and i just avoid certain weight exercises (and still manage to do some serious weight training 3-5 times a week).
my question is, does anyone know of any decent weight exercises to strengthen the rotator cuff (or AC joint, if you'll believe my myotherapist)?

 

[mcgarnacle]

which movements bring on the pain?

i have a R shoulder impingement which i've been battling with for near on a year now. most of the time there isnt any pain. i get a 'something's not right' feeling in the shoulder with arm movements behind my body or above my head. but lifting any decent weight with exercises such as lateral raises, shoulder presses, bench presses and seated presses brings on pain. this is a real bummer as i play gridiron and i need to supplement core strength for blocking/defensive play with upper body work.

i've head several cortisone injections to settle the inflammation and have been doing several exercises in order to strengthen the deep muscles of the shoulder. one of them is the internal and external rotation exercises you may see some people go thru willy nilly to warm up when in reality they're not doing much. Furthermore, traditional weight exercises do not hit this muscles - believe it.

With regards to the exercises I've been prescribed to undertake, they need to be completed in a controlld manner with a weight which enables muscle fatigue in 2-3 minutes. i end up doing around 40 reps of each.

it seems to be improving, but i've noticed a considerable drop in upper body strength in general. people i could block or get around at training last year have caught up! apart from these shoulder exercises and shrugs, i've been told not to undertake any traditional weight-bearing exercises for the upper body until the problem clears up at least.

 

[Docker Clint]

You've really got to see a top notch physio to find out exactly what is going on in there, I wouldn't be dishing out or taking advice on rotator cuff injuries online.

 

[Docker Clint]

lateral raises, shoulder presses, bench presses and seated presses brings on pain.

I'd avoid any above the head movement at all, when I train people for shoulder presses, I tell them to keep the weight in their field of vision, anything behind the head can lead to shoulder impingment as you've discovered.

With your pressing exercises, are you keeping the shoulders down and elbow in line with the middle of the chest (inline with the nipples)? Too many people try and go heavier than what they need and the shoulders are raising up to help push the weight.

 

[mcgarnacle]

I'd avoid any above the head movement at all, when I train people for shoulder presses, I tell them to keep the weight in their field of vision, anything behind the head can lead to shoulder impingment as you've discovered.

With your pressing exercises, are you keeping the shoulders down and elbow in line with the middle of the chest (inline with the nipples)? Too many people try and go heavier than what they need and the shoulders are raising up to help push the weight.

i used to do push presses to the front primarily with a bar, but would change it up every now again with dumbells where id end up behind the head with heavier weights. unfortunately, i cannot press any meaningful weight, or pullup at the moment.

as you say, in order to go heavier i was sacrificing 'good lifting form.' in sacrifcing form i was recruiting other muscles/putting strain on joints, ligaments and tendons in order to complete a rep. we utilise the voluntary services of a qualified lifting coach now (he has college football program experience in US) and he has stressed the importance of 'rep reproduction' when it comes to lifting, i.e., each rep in a set must look identical. He has also stressed the importance of controlled lifting, and implored us to change our thinking that heavier means stronger. It is how we lift, not just lifting the weight itself, that makes you stronger. he has also helped rid all of us of the bodybuilding exercises/routines which serve no purpose for the gridiron, but rather, expose us to injury and which also seem to be ingrained in the minds of just about every lay person at any gym. In fact, exercises such as lateral raises and dumbell flyes which can put a great deal of stress on the shoulder joint does not help anybody's functional strength.

with regards to your advice to whomb re see a physio, i'd like to add that you should see a sports doctor for proper assessment who'll put you in touch with a specialist physio. A general physio does not know how to diagnose (they're not taught this in their degrees) and so can actually prescribe treatment which will make the condition worse. I've had numerous experiences with a physio who did not know how to diagnose a condition, most notably with my current condition, and also, osteitis pubis when i was playing aussie rules in my younger days. With the OP, i visited a couple of physios who basically massaged the area and prescribed gentle stretches as they both thought it was just a groin pull. with the condition worsening, i went to a sports doc who diagnosed osteitis pubis and sent me to a specialist pelvic physio. same with my shoulder. after months of no improvement, i went back to the same sports doc who helped me with OP, and he referred me to a specialist shoulder physio. you may need to shell out a bit more cash, but you'll also be getting specialist treatment from people who know their stuff.

 

[Docker Clint]

i used to do push presses to the front primarily with a bar, but would change it up every now again with dumbells where id end up behind the head with heavier weights. unfortunately, i cannot press any meaningful weight, or pullup at the moment.

as you say, in order to go heavier i was sacrificing 'good lifting form.' in sacrifcing form i was recruiting other muscles/putting strain on joints, ligaments and tendons in order to complete a rep. we utilise the voluntary services of a qualified lifting coach now (he has college football program experience in US) and he has stressed the importance of 'rep reproduction' when it comes to lifting, i.e., each rep in a set must look identical. He has also stressed the importance of controlled lifting, and implored us to change our thinking that heavier means stronger. It is how we lift, not just lifting the weight itself, that makes you stronger. he has also helped rid all of us of the bodybuilding exercises/routines which serve no purpose for the gridiron, but rather, expose us to injury and which also seem to be ingrained in the minds of just about every lay person at any gym. In fact, exercises such as lateral raises and dumbell flyes which can put a great deal of stress on the shoulder joint does not help anybody's functional strength.

This is excellent stuff.

with regards to your advice to whomb re see a physio, i'd like to add that you should see a sports doctor for proper assessment who'll put you in touch with a specialist physio. A general physio does not know how to diagnose (they're not taught this in their degrees) and so can actually prescribe treatment which will make the condition worse. I've had numerous experiences with a physio who did not know how to diagnose a condition, most notably with my current condition, and also, osteitis pubis when i was playing aussie rules in my younger days. With the OP, i visited a couple of physios who basically massaged the area and prescribed gentle stretches as they both thought it was just a groin pull. with the condition worsening, i went to a sports doc who diagnosed osteitis pubis and sent me to a specialist pelvic physio. same with my shoulder. after months of no improvement, i went back to the same sports doc who helped me with OP, and he referred me to a specialist shoulder physio. you may need to shell out a bit more cash, but you'll also be getting specialist treatment from people who know their stuff.

Fair call. I said a physio, mainly because the bloke I see has a basis of sports physiotherapy and has written books on strength training, but you're right.

 

[Schism]

Try super heavy upright rows.




Seriously though, see a physio?

 

[Docker Clint]

Try super heavy upright rows.

And 20 sets of behind the head lat pull downs followed by some assisted pec deck.

 

[Schism]

And 20 sets of behind the head lat pull downs followed by some assisted pec deck.

With dodgy shoulders, after heavy upright rows and BTN pulldowns, the pec deck will certainly be assisted. In fact, just moving your arms may need assistance

 

[Kong]

Try super heavy upright rows.

and behind the head single dumbbell super heavy tri extensions

Seriously though, see a physio?

yeah i've seen a physio and myotherapist, the physio said to stop weight training and let it heal itself whilst doing stretches; the problem with that theory was i got the injury over a year before i started weight training and did stretches every day for the rest of the season. the myotherapist said to continue seeing him for deep-tissue massages every week, which would've cost a fortune, and as a uni student i can't afford that.

 

[Schism]

and behind the head single dumbbell super heavy tri extensions





yeah i've seen a physio and myotherapist, the physio said to stop weight training and let it heal itself whilst doing stretches; the problem with that theory was i got the injury over a year before i started weight training and did stretches every day for the rest of the season. the myotherapist said to continue seeing him for deep-tissue massages every week, which would've cost a fortune, and as a uni student i can't afford that.

I've had similar issues, and now have a situation like that with my left bicep. Time is the only thing man....

 

[Cats fan 16]

i used to do push presses to the front primarily with a bar, but would change it up every now again with dumbells where id end up behind the head with heavier weights. unfortunately, i cannot press any meaningful weight, or pullup at the moment.

as you say, in order to go heavier i was sacrificing 'good lifting form.' in sacrifcing form i was recruiting other muscles/putting strain on joints, ligaments and tendons in order to complete a rep. we utilise the voluntary services of a qualified lifting coach now (he has college football program experience in US) and he has stressed the importance of 'rep reproduction' when it comes to lifting, i.e., each rep in a set must look identical. He has also stressed the importance of controlled lifting, and implored us to change our thinking that heavier means stronger. It is how we lift, not just lifting the weight itself, that makes you stronger. he has also helped rid all of us of the bodybuilding exercises/routines which serve no purpose for the gridiron, but rather, expose us to injury and which also seem to be ingrained in the minds of just about every lay person at any gym. In fact, exercises such as lateral raises and dumbell flyes which can put a great deal of stress on the shoulder joint does not help anybody's functional strength.

with regards to your advice to whomb re see a physio, i'd like to add that you should see a sports doctor for proper assessment who'll put you in touch with a specialist physio. A general physio does not know how to diagnose (they're not taught this in their degrees) and so can actually prescribe treatment which will make the condition worse. I've had numerous experiences with a physio who did not know how to diagnose a condition, most notably with my current condition, and also, osteitis pubis when i was playing aussie rules in my younger days. With the OP, i visited a couple of physios who basically massaged the area and prescribed gentle stretches as they both thought it was just a groin pull. with the condition worsening, i went to a sports doc who diagnosed osteitis pubis and sent me to a specialist pelvic physio. same with my shoulder. after months of no improvement, i went back to the same sports doc who helped me with OP, and he referred me to a specialist shoulder physio. you may need to shell out a bit more cash, but you'll also be getting specialist treatment from people who know their stuff.

ridiculous statement.

Sounds like you've got a rotator cuff tear (as you are aware) and possible impingement of the RC tendons in the shoulder. The rotator cuff work to rotate (externally) the head of the humerus when you lift your arm in the air to put the head in the correct position. You may have a muscle imbalance (weak rotator cuff muscles) which arent performing their job and therefore the head of the humerus is not getting rotated and put in the right position and is therefore pushing up against the RC tendons causing impingement and pain with overhead activities.
To be honest you probably have a LOT of problems with your scapula and scapulo-humeral muscles meaning you will have to start with low load closed chain exercises, but you want to work up to open chain exercises (specifically external rotation) to increase the RC muscles and muscles of the scapula. It's too hard to explain through words, and i have probably confused you but go see a physio for the right exercises.

 

[mcgarnacle]

ridiculous statement.

no its not. they're great at prescribing exercise and managing a rehabilitation program once there is a correct diagnosis of the problem, but in my experience, i won't ever rely on a general physio's diagnosis. FFS, i broke a leg at a footy match years ago and was told by the physio at the ground that it's just a strain and that i should go home adhere to the RICE principles.......even tho i it swelled like a balloon and i couldnt put any weight on it whatsoever. instead, i got my dad to take me to the hospital for x-rays later in the evening which showed up a fracture. if a physio was taught to diagnose, they would have studied medicince and be doctors. but they're not.

Sounds like you've got a rotator cuff tear (as you are aware) and possible impingement of the RC tendons in the shoulder. The rotator cuff work to rotate (externally) the head of the humerus when you lift your arm in the air to put the head in the correct position. You may have a muscle imbalance (weak rotator cuff muscles) which arent performing their job and therefore the head of the humerus is not getting rotated and put in the right position and is therefore pushing up against the RC tendons causing impingement and pain with overhead activities.
To be honest you probably have a LOT of problems with your scapula and scapulo-humeral muscles meaning you will have to start with low load closed chain exercises, but you want to work up to open chain exercises (specifically external rotation) to increase the RC muscles and muscles of the scapula. It's too hard to explain through words, and i have probably confused you but go see a physio for the right exercises.

is that diagnosis for me? or the OPer whomb. I know what the problem with my shoulder is.

 

[Docker Clint]

ridiculous statement.

Sounds like you've got a rotator cuff tear (as you are aware) and possible impingement of the RC tendons in the shoulder. The rotator cuff work to rotate (externally) the head of the humerus when you lift your arm in the air to put the head in the correct position. You may have a muscle imbalance (weak rotator cuff muscles) which arent performing their job and therefore the head of the humerus is not getting rotated and put in the right position and is therefore pushing up against the RC tendons causing impingement and pain with overhead activities.
To be honest you probably have a LOT of problems with your scapula and scapulo-humeral muscles meaning you will have to start with low load closed chain exercises, but you want to work up to open chain exercises (specifically external rotation) to increase the RC muscles and muscles of the scapula. It's too hard to explain through words, and i have probably confused you but go see a physio for the right exercises.

I gather you're saying to increase the strength and not size of the RC muscles.

I've seen both internal and external rotation prescribed for RC injuries using therabands. I guess it depends which particular muscle is involved, but from my experience it's generally supraspinatus.

People underestimate the role that posture plays in shoulder extension. Try slumping your back forward, then lift your arms above your head.

 

[Cats fan 16]

I gather you're saying to increase the strength and not size of the RC muscles.

I've seen both internal and external rotation prescribed for RC injuries using therabands. I guess it depends which particular muscle is involved, but from my experience it's generally supraspinatus.

People underestimate the role that posture plays in shoulder extension. Try slumping your back forward, then lift your arms above your head.

yeah usually it is supraspinatus that is impinged under the subacromial space, but this is not necessarily the weak muscle. You're right in saying that external or internal rotation can be prescribed because some of the RC muscles (subscap) internally rotate and some externally rotate (infraspinatus, teres minor), so depending on which muscle is weak, ext or int rotation can be prescribed. Although it's usually external.
To the other guy: Ofcourse a physio is not going to be able to diagnose as well as say a Dr. using imaging such as MRI or x-ray, but good physios can diagnose injuries. Especially ones as simple as RC tear etc.

 

[GeneralDisarray]

The book "Treat Your Own Rotator Cuff" is held in high regard by many people. It's got programs and exercises to help strengthen and prevent injuries. Search for the book on the bodybuilding.com forums and similar places and I think people who've bought it are all satisfied with the results. Or just read some of the reviews on amazon.