Autopsy Round 11, 2024: Melbourne v St.Kilda

[Saintbloke]

Insipid. A team issue, not individuals. Stop the rot..we're not tanking..this a result of a president's vanity and we the supporters are wearing this sh*t. Having followed the Saints for so many years, today I turned off, lost interest, and I haven't done that since the '80s

 

[Teflon]

Ffs, this is just really tired.

No he doesn’t kick the ball for them but he sure as shit as them setting up at stoppage, letting Roma hack clearance, slow ball out of defence, never look for corridor footy.

Yes the players are playing like shit (you could argue some of that is a lack of confidence because of the system) but the structure and gameplan are also real ****ing shit.

Now either that is Ross OR the group isn’t listening to him, either way, that’s bad for a coach.

Or the players simply can’t execute as Montagna pointed too
FFS look at the Benny hill decisions made every week and tell me the coach instructs that?
Or the coach decided to throw out the game plan that beat Pies and decided to “drain natural flair/talent” from the players??
It ain’t hard to work out where the issues are
We arsed a finals appearance last year off a soft - just like Bombers (also shyte) are doing now
But that only masks the list issues of the last 10 years we all know about
Zero midfielders and it’s laid bare now
You can sack 10 coaches but with that B grade midfield talent you’re going nowhere

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

You can't lose in this manner for an extended period. It's untenable. Membership next year will be diabolical.

The Board who decided to bring Lyon back also needs to be hauled under the coals. Not at the end of the year at the AGM. It needs to happen now.

 

[StFly]

Or the players simply can’t execute as Montagna pointed too
FFS look at the Benny hill decisions made every week and tell me the coach instructs that?
Or the coach decided to throw out the game plan that beat Pies and decided to “drain natural flair/talent” from the players??
It ain’t hard to work out where the issues are
We arsed a finals appearance last year off a soft - just like Bombers (also shyte) are doing now
But that only masks the list issues of the last 10 years we all know about
Zero midfielders and it’s laid bare now
You can sack 10 coaches but with that B grade midfield talent you’re going nowhere

No real midfield, no true CHF as he's playing FF and a makeshift HFF will tend to screw most things forward of centre.

 

[Cairnsman]

Remember Steele was told he had to lose weight. Since then he’s struggled with injuries and his contested side

He had to change to get some speed, he'd turned into a plodding tackling machine...which means he was always 2nd to the ball. What I fear is he's been playing that way for far too long and doesn't have improvement left in him

 

[littlecreatures]

Well any thought of me going to Perth is well off

Mate, I live in Perth and going and dreading seeing this god forsaken team

 

[Pardon me]

Genuine question, do we win another game this year?

Definitely possible that we don't. If I had to guess I think we have 3 more wins in us tops. 6-17 for the year. Absolute trash.

Doubt Lyon sticks around for this. They all look miserable. Will be shocked if he makes it to the end of 25 season.

You can't lose in this manner for an extended period. It's untenable. Membership next year will be diabolical.

You wouldn’t think so based on the body of work we’ve put up.
Would have to be a monumental turnaround or a team ‘managing’ their side heading into finals.

This is about as poorly skilled and disinterested I’ve seen us play in recent memory.

I was watching the cats/gws game the other night and the difference in skill level is light years apart.

We are miles off it currently which equates to another season of disappointment.

 

[Parkysp]

For those who weren't covering their eyes during the ruck contests, how many of Gawn's 8 free kicks were justified?

All 8. RoMa started metres off him then coming in late grabbed at him.

Today was the day for a proper ruckman to go against Gawn. We keep explaining it away by any number of "reasons" but today a proper tap ruckman would have had more composure and done better.

We don't do that though as we need our "ruckman" to be a ruck rover to cover deficiencies with the supposed midfield extractors. So we got smashed in the ruck and we walk away saying well Tom Campbell would have been worse as he's...(insert your favourite reason)

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Mate, I live in Perth and going and dreading seeing this god forsaken team

You will at least see Harley Reid

 

[SteeleSaints]

Isn’t there a rule we invented that we have to select a sandy player . If that’s the case it prob doesn’t matter what pick we have . Not sure

Yeah but we didnt nominate how or when eg national, rookie or mid season drafts. Im sure thats prefaced by Sandringham finding and playing some decent supplementary players.

 

[StFly]

All 8. RoMa started metres off him then coming in late grabbed at him.

Today was the day for a proper ruckman to go against Gawn. We keep explaining it away by any number of "reasons" but today a proper tap ruckman would have had more composure and done better.

We don't do that though as we need our "ruckman" to be a ruck rover to cover deficiencies with the supposed midfield extractors. So we got smashed in the ruck and we walk away saying well Tom Campbell would have been worse as he's...(insert your favourite reason)

Also Hammer tended to play from behind and straight grab his jumper to impede his jump, so yeah, Gawn was entitled to almost everything he got that was beneficial in this match.

 

[kernelT]

W/L largely irrelevant, so long as we are training like elite marines then kicking one goal each quarter will put us in good stead for finals footy.

 

[bergholt]

Turgid, dreadful football from us.

Most of you seem to think building a successful AFL football team is basically about building a list.

It’s just not.

It’s about having a gameplan and style that is up-to-date and, most importantly, develops players.

Ross Lyon’s gameplan is so far behind the league it isn’t funny.

Even worse is that, his horrible defensive style only works with squads that are contending.

His style with a developing squad is an absolute disaster.

If you’re for some reason sticking up for what our club has become under Bassat’s horrendous decision making (Ross Lyon FC), you are part of the problem.

The very existence of our club demands that long term members and supporters hold our board accountable.

These board members are so far removed from understanding the trends of the modern game it is laughable.

But just watch them go into damage control now and blame the “list”.

It’s so predictable, and most of you will fall for it (in fact, lots already are, see lots of list blaming lately).

I hope you're right. It's a lot more hopeful to believe we've got the players, it's just the coach that's bad. Easier to change the coach than the players.

But at the start of last season the general consensus on here was that we had a pretty shit list. Then we had a good year so we all changed our minds on it. But maybe we were wrong - maybe it was shit all along. Personally I can't see how these players would be finals quality even with a better coach, though no doubt they should be better than what they're showing.

 

[littlecreatures]

Again, does he tell them to run into each other or get the ball smothered or kick on the man in the mark or get 80 turnovers they are poor poor group of players

No, but it sure is his job to coach and develop them in a way which effectively mitigates these issues, otherwise why are we paying him bucket loads of $.

I’ve been an avid defender of Ross this season, but you can only have this side dish up the same issues on rinse and repeat for so long before there’s some level of accountability.

 

[spike101]

Genuine question, do we win another game this year?

Definitely possible that we don't. If I had to guess I think we have 3 more wins in us tops. 6-17 for the year. Absolute trash.

Doubt Lyon sticks around for this. They all look miserable. Will be shocked if he makes it to the end of 25 season.

You can't lose in this manner for an extended period. It's untenable. Membership next year will be diabolical.

Doubt Lyon sticks around for this? He’s created it; he should be sacked and not employed at Fox, SEN, ABC, MMM, 3AW ( but I understand there is history there) or anywhere else. Monty Python, he is an ex ( “parrot”) coach. For those who are too young, look at the Monty Python dead parrot sketch.

 

[NoisyMinor]

- Steele cracking the sads when needing to man the mark at one point was a sight to see.

At one of the breaks, Lyon had just given the team a group bake. Afterward, instead of bustling around and reinforcing the message, Steele stood there chewing on his mouthguard.

Not a captain's sphincter.

 

[TheJackal]

The main focus at training was our mids entry to our forwardline, kicking to either Caminiti, King, Collard etc coming out on a lead from the square. It was sloppy as, but at least worked on.

BUT, our forwards don't stay in the square for the perfect lead down the guts with no pressure. Our forwards are also the (worst) ones who butcher many inside 50s - past couple if weeks I've seen so many inside 50s go out on the full. How that even happens at that level is beyond me.

 

[phantom13]

Or the players simply can’t execute as Montagna pointed too
FFS look at the Benny hill decisions made every week and tell me the coach instructs that?
Or the coach decided to throw out the game plan that beat Pies and decided to “drain natural flair/talent” from the players??
It ain’t hard to work out where the issues are
We arsed a finals appearance last year off a soft - just like Bombers (also shyte) are doing now
But that only masks the list issues of the last 10 years we all know about
Zero midfielders and it’s laid bare now
You can sack 10 coaches but with that B grade midfield talent you’re going nowhere

Yeh Montagnas “insight” was dogshit. Of course we retain the ball across the back half cause we chip it round the edges and don’t take the inside kick (and make no mistake we have players who absolutely can take that kick). What’s our corridor rate or forward 50 retention rate.

Joey finding stats to protect his buddy Ross is a suprise to no one.

 

[Joffaboy]

Get band one for Battle

Enter draft with picks 3 and 4

Pillage the draft before Tassie enter. Anything else we do is wasting time.

This is the only thing we can do get oick 3 and 4 and purchase another frdp.
Then maybe get a mid ranger mid like LDU or someone
We need to load up big time before Tassie or the club won't be competitive until the late 30's.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[MrFoster]

Turgid, dreadful football from us.

Most of you seem to think building a successful AFL football team is basically about building a list.

It’s just not.

It’s about having a gameplan and style that is up-to-date and, most importantly, develops players.

Ross Lyon’s gameplan is so far behind the league it isn’t funny.

Even worse is that, his horrible defensive style only works with squads that are contending.

His style with a developing squad is an absolute disaster.

If you’re for some reason sticking up for what our club has become under Bassat’s horrendous decision making (Ross Lyon FC), you are part of the problem.

The very existence of our club demands that long term members and supporters hold our board accountable.

These board members are so far removed from understanding the trends of the modern game it is laughable.

But just watch them go into damage control now and blame the “list”.

It’s so predictable, and most of you will fall for it (in fact, lots already are, see lots of list blaming lately).

TBH, this is the same game style we’ve played under Richo and Ratten for the last 8-10 years.. Ross actually have not changed things too much.. we brought in some soft runners (Bonner, NAS), but because our best midfielder Crouch is injured, the team is severely unbalanced with no more midfield depth left to support the spine of the team..

Was Richo and Ratten considered defensive?

 

[Teflon]

The one positive we now have pick # 4 at the MSD.

I said this at the start of the year, with our developing (lacking quality) list we were never going to recover with the number of important players we had out injured to start the season. They battled away undermanned for a number of weeks, but now the dam wall has burst. The entire club are out form and that starts with the coaches.

Patrick Dangerfield was perceptive in his commentary and it basically summed up our season. Because we were missing so many targets, we spend much more energy defending and chasing to win the ball back. Then we dont have the energy to attack when we do have the ball. On the contrary because the opposition are just picking off our dump kicks forward they can afford to take the game on and charge forward.

As a group how many fumbles, missed targets and dropped marks did we see today. Those same players (excluding Howard) werent doing that last year but their lack in convidence is spreading. Its obvious we now dont have the capacity to get first hands on the ball and then work it our congestion. Surely the over the top speculator handball forward is not a coaching instruction?

Our midfield and collective skills are some of the worst in the competition. Because of his lack of support even Jack Steele has become nothing more than a battler. Midfield talent and ball winners with skills are a significant weakness across the park.

Im sure our forwards are told not to lead up at the ball because Lyon doesnt have the confidence in the players delivering the ball to hit a target. Instead they all remain in a 20 metre zone waiting for the inevitable dump kick which teams like Melbourne just prey on. Ive also said it before but I think we need a specialist marking coach, too many of our players get beaten far too easily in marking contests.

Windhager didnt play well today but lets not forget how young he is, Garcia definitely has a future and I think Phillipou has the drive to want to suceed. Wilson is already a great wingman and Im sure given time he can turn that game to a break way mid. Henry has shown he can also go in for short periods. The talent is there but they are all young and will take time.

This is a sensible post
The talent IS or the foundation of it but it’s not surrounded by senior players of quality
Steele on his day yeah …but Ross, Wood, Membrey, Bonner, Stocker don’t scream “strong experienced core who step up when the games in the balance”
Even Sincs this year is meh….
I think we may have to make sone hard decisions on sone name players in that group ….to get to the pick level where you’re bringing in top line talent…

 

[puntking]

No, but he does tell players to all flood into defence, which leaves us with nothing to kick to, hence the 80 turnovers. You can't seriously defend him after that garbage.

We ain’t doing anything different to any other team, there is no magic beans in game plans when it comes down to it it’s talent vs talent and we don’t have it

 

[NoisyMinor]

The prospect of band 1 compo for Battle is hilarious.

Absolute trippers.

 

[puntking]

Rohan Connolly wrote this during the week.

“Okay this needs to be said. I’ve got nothing against Ross Lyon at all. His footy knowledge and nous is first class. But you simply can’t win a flag without being able to score and his teams consistently don’t.
He’s had 14 completed seasons as coach with StKilda and Fremantle. And just once, in 2009 when the Saints were runners up, have his teams ranked any higher than seventh for points scored, whilst nine times his teams have ranked top six for fewest points conceded.
In the 21st century we’ve had 24 premierships and just three times has a team ranked lower than sixth for points scored won a flag. You have to be able to score at least respectably to be in the ball game. And Lyon’s teams still don’t.

Last year St.Kilda whilst #1 for fewest points scored against, was a dismal 15th for points scored. Even this season the Saints are going okay defensively (6th before this round for fewest points against), but 14th for points scored.

You can’t return this sort of discrepancy between defence and attack over a long period and be believed when you say you value attacking football and scoring. He doesn’t. And the numbers simply don’t stack up. He has to change. “

And Rohan is a washed up jurno who is Lao a ****-wit

 

[puntking]

It's simple guys- Lyon has been caught out as a sh*t coach in 2024

U really believe with this group we make top4? If so who would get us there?