Autopsy Round 11, 2024: Melbourne v St.Kilda

[Ilovewindy]

Recruit mids and maybe another tall forward via the draft and throw a truckload of cash at some good mids via FA

Find a couple of Dan Butlers - fast pressure small forwards at top 6 clubs who are in and out and looking for a regular game.

Keep Battle and all our experienced players. We can’t afford to give away good players like him. Everyone said we won’t miss Gresham Everyone was wrong. He was best 22. No surprise to me Essendon have surged up the ladder - they brought in a bunch of experienced players. Remember when we did the same under Ratts ? - played finals was the result. Want to see what happens when you have a poor list and give away what few decent players you have - study the North Melbourne case study of the last 5 years

“Play the kids” you say. How did that work out for Phillipou ? Destroyed his confidence. Surely getting less than 5 possessions week in week out is not good for their confidence or development. If they are showing something at Sandy sure give them a taste. But only when they have racked up decent performances 3 or more weeks in a row.

I remember when we did that under Ratts!! And then we turned to shit and Ratts got sacked us a result and we are now stuck with a shit list... Still not convinced Essendon are any good and def not convinced that keeping Gresham would have done us any good. We would have got nowhere with his shit disposal and selfishness

 

[phantom13]

Hate to disappoint people but there's no way anyone is paying Band 1 compo money for Battle.

End of Band 1 - maybe.

I think you mean end of round 1 cause band 1 is just band 1.

In any event there absolutely is a way that happens. Cba going up and him being 25 means someone may give him a big long deal which triggers it.

Genuine question, do we win another game this year?

Definitely possible that we don't. If I had to guess I think we have 3 more wins in us tops. 6-17 for the year. Absolute trash.

Doubt Lyon sticks around for this. They all look miserable. Will be shocked if he makes it to the end of 25 season.

You can't lose in this manner for an extended period. It's untenable. Membership next year will be diabolical.

No guarantee. We have west coast twice (here and there), Richmond and Gold Coast here which are all “winnable” but that’s based on us being a shitload better than we have been for the last month ish.

 

[phantom13]

U really believe with this group we make top4? If so who would get us there?

Don’t think anyone said top 4 but we were 6th last year with a pretty similar list mostly because we didn’t play rossball.

 

[MickG88]

Hate to disappoint people but there's no way anyone is paying Band 1 compo money for Battle.

End of Band 1 - maybe.

We can hope that the AFL do a Melbourne/Frawley type deal and lie so we can get band 1(pick 3/4)

 

[MickG88]

Sooo many throws. In particular when Gawn took it out the middle.
Also how was the free he got on the wing when he jumped all over Marshall? Little bit of a ump favourite is Maxy.

And a sook if he doesn't get it his way.

 

[Teflon]

Yeh Montagnas “insight” was dogshit. Of course we retain the ball across the back half cause we chip it round the edges and don’t take the inside kick (and make no mistake we have players who absolutely can take that kick). What’s our corridor rate or forward 50 retention rate.

Joey finding stats to protect his buddy Ross is a suprise to no one.

That’s a convenient narrative to someone clearly “all out” and hell bent on blaming the coach.
What Montagna DID say which struck a chord with me is we do move the ball from D50 quite well compared to other sides
Past 50 when you need to make a decision going into 50 OR execute we fail miserably
That’s not Joey protecting Lyon - that’s fact most weeks just watching the game
Saw it again today - WTF was that Bonner dribble along the ground side to to 2 Dees in the middle? Have a look at points differential from turn overs…our execution is appalling
Anyway, probably easier to lump it at Lyons feet ….and dismiss Montagnas analysis as “mates rates” cause that suits the angle.

 

[phantom13]

That’s a convenient narrative to someone clearly “all out” and hell bent on blaming the coach.
What Montagna DID say which struck a chord with me is we do move the ball from D50 quite well compared to other sides
Past 50 when you need to make a decision going into 50 OR execute we fail miserably
That’s not Joey protecting Lyon - that’s fact most weeks just watching the game
Saw it again today - WTF was that Bonner dribble along the ground side to to 2 Dees in the middle? Have a look at points differential from turn overs…our execution is appalling
Anyway, probably easier to lump it at Lyons feet ….and dismiss Montagnas analysis as “mates rates” cause that suits the angle.

His commentary and notes were based on retention, not movement though. Of course we retain the ball cause we don’t attack with it.

It’s equally as easy to find a stat to defend Ross if that’s your angle but lemme tell you, there’s ALOT of long term data and stats to show Ross is a defense first coach. I did them to death all ****ing week and I actually was hoping to find maybe I was wrong.

 

[phantom13]

Also I don’t think it’s all Ross’ fault. Our line coaches obviously aren’t great and our list isn’t exactly world beating but to think Ross isn’t part of the problem when his thing has always been low scoring, minimize error and score against even if it means we don’t score much is a bit silly.

 

[puntking]

Yeh Montagnas “insight” was dogshit. Of course we retain the ball across the back half cause we chip it round the edges and don’t take the inside kick (and make no mistake we have players who absolutely can take that kick). What’s our corridor rate or forward 50 retention rate.

Joey finding stats to protect his buddy Ross is a suprise to no one.

Cos u don’t agree doesn’t make it not correct

 

[puntking]

Don’t think anyone said top 4 but we were 6th last year with a pretty similar list mostly because we didn’t play rossball.

Was Ross coach last year?

 

[SteeleSaints]

Sooo many throws. In particular when Gawn took it out the middle.
Also how was the free he got on the wing when he jumped all over Marshall? Little bit of a ump favourite is Maxy.

Agree throwing and holding the ball are forgotten rules. The AFL and umpires are so concerned about making the game faster and flow they simply dont want to blow their whistles any more. Its a trend in the game that our coaches are slow to pick up and address with the players. Scragging and marking are other skills where we are simply not expoliting the rules like the better teams. As I said during the game thread, Lyon needs to wind things back and concentrate on the players basic skills before he is going to get anywhere with their ball movement.

Melbournes quick hands to a free player made us look stupid today, like a game of 'keepings off' where we hardly touched the ball. Plus their ability to take on the tackler and get hands free and perfectly hit a target was exceptional. Because of this we often saw two or three Saints go to the ball carrier only to see the Melbourne tackled player get the ball out to a free team mate.

Then we look at their kicking skills where as a group they drill their kicks low and hard to a target, where we too often give loopy slow kicks which invites turnovers and errors because we are kicking with no real purpose. A lot of that came about because of Melbournes pressure, but Im sure their kicking is a team directive trained into them, where we hope to get the ball within 10 metres of a team mate. As a result we have no hope of consistently kicking to a team mates advantage, its just not St Kilda like.

 

[beside the seaside]

Didn't watch the game but it's a bit strange how our best players are always the ones that cop it. Marshall last week, Steele this week.

Disappointing result but not unexpected. We are massively out of form, feels like we are running in mud every week. Good to see Sandy play well and have some standouts though.

 

[Saints43]

Didn't watch the game but it's a bit strange how our best players are always the ones that cop it. Marshall last week, Steele this week.

Can't we just go back to the old ways and blame Dougal for everything?

 

[phantom13]

Cos u don’t agree doesn’t make it not correct

What an insight. If you bothered to read what I said, Montagna is absolutely right, we do retain the ball well, but that’s not the same thing as moving the ball well.

He’s correct it’s just not a relevant stat to the point he’s making.

Was Ross coach last year?

Again, I already answered this point. We weren’t playing Rossball for the first 10-12 weeks. Ross even admitted he was assessing the group before implementing a gameplan.

If you’re gonna contribute at least bother to read the posts you’re replying to

 

[Mat Mann]

Isn't the Prez's bro on the AFL Commission ? Surely he follows the Saints too. You'd think he could advocate on our behalf and pull a few strings ?

what did we get when Gill the StKilda fan was AFL CEO, "hurry up and pay back the debt" was Gill's considerable effort to help Stkilda

 

[saintbill]

West Coast are favourites next week

Fmd, this was a team that was historically bad last year. This club is cooked.

 

[D2D3]

Was Ross coach last year?

Which is what tricked us into thinking maybe he had learnt. But he’s reverted when the chips are down and it’s damning.

 

[Saints TV]

An average day at the G

 

[phantom13]

Didn't watch the game but it's a bit strange how our best players are always the ones that cop it. Marshall last week, Steele this week.

Disappointing result but not unexpected. We are massively out of form, feels like we are running in mud every week. Good to see Sandy play well and have some standouts though.

I gotta admit I looked at Steeles stats midway through the last and was absolutely shocked. 30 odd and a goal is a good game by any standards but if someone told me he had 15 handballs and 50 metres gained I would have believed it.

Roma is a bit more difficult. Ultimately to me the issue with him is that he’s not a good ruckman but he’s a handy extra onballer. Max gave him a bath today by absolutely belting him in the ruck and ensuring he was engaged enough to not be able to follow it up. Neat trick from Max and one that only like 3 ruckmen in the comp can actually do.

Roma is such an odd player and I’m loathe to criticize cause I know I’m overly negative but a lot of his stats are really misleading. Has a shitload of clearances but they’re not effective, has a lot of disposals but he’s not damaging with them. I’m really at a loss with Roma tbh.

 

[littlecreatures]

His commentary and notes were based on retention, not movement though. Of course we retain the ball cause we don’t attack with it.

It’s equally as easy to find a stat to defend Ross if that’s your angle but lemme tell you, there’s ALOT of long term data and stats to show Ross is a defense first coach. I did them to death all ****ing week and I actually was hoping to find maybe I was wrong.

Hmm, my memory was that it was indeed movement from D50 to F50, so not retention. The issue was flagged by Joey that we’re able to rebound, we just can’t get it inside 50 effectively.

A lot of that is around lacking any punch across the guts as well as having a relatively inexperienced forward line - I think today showed that, F50 actually looked much better with King and Higgins firing, we just had zero zip through the middle, no space to work with.

I think Lyon does like to have this side play with overlap through the back half, so to imply he just wants retention though there I think is misleading. If that was the case you’d see teams playing more a forward half possession game against us which would’ve counteracted stats shown by Joey.

 

[Leap of Faith]

And Rohan is a washed up jurno who is Lao a ****-wit

Quality reply. Don’t care who wrote it, it’s the content that matters. Looks accurate to me.

 

[phantom13]

Can't we just go back to the old ways and blame Dougal for everything?

The prick has stopped with the pirouettes and feints so we have nothing to complain about.

Might be the biggest issue with the whole club at this point that Doogs isn’t having brain farts

 

[puntking]

What an insight. If you bothered to read what I said, Montagna is absolutely right, we do retain the ball well, but that’s not the same thing as moving the ball well.

He’s correct it’s just not a relevant stat to the point he’s making.


Again, I already answered this point. We weren’t playing Rossball for the first 10-12 weeks. Ross even admitted he was assessing the group before implementing a gameplan.

If you’re gonna contribute at least bother to read the posts you’re replying to

Every week u blame the coaches, u better buckle up cos they not going to sack him they have totally rebuilt the admin team the recruiting team and now it’s the players turn, we are doing it right now or u wanna not win a flag for another 150 years

 

[Mat Mann]

Honestly most of them, Roma is lucky he doesn’t give away more with how he plays ruck, it’s an issue for him (although I’d argue they really shouldn’t pay any frees in the ruck)

How many unrealistic attempts did they pay against McAdam today, flew like a pole jumper, didn't touch it in the air once. Umpiring has descended into umpire ball who, how and where is all they have to decide

 

[Yabadoo22]

I seriously have doubts over Lyons ability to develop a young side. He is only proven to be able to get the most out of a seasoned, hard fit group. I can see he is trying by playing the kids, but to me his coaching style is taxing.
I thought NAS tried his guts out all day and was our best. Windy tries hard, but unsure if he is going to much more then a role player at this stage. I think Owens is playing to heavy, and needs to drop weight over the summer and get better at covering the ground. Wilson is a jet, but he is also a promising saints youngster, so fair chance he won't develop into a star. Stocker tries hard but is limited, Bonner butchers the ball and is scared of contact. Henry got going as the game went on, just needs to find consistency. Kings efforts the past fortnight have been an improvement. Collard nowhere near the level at this stage, although our style of play doesn't help