Autopsy Round 11, 2024: Melbourne v St.Kilda

[pebblesofsand]

I think you mean end of round 1 cause band 1 is just band 1.

In any event there absolutely is a way that happens. Cba going up and him being 25 means someone may give him a big long deal which triggers it.


No guarantee. We have west coast twice (here and there), Richmond and Gold Coast here which are all “winnable” but that’s based on us being a shitload better than we have been for the last month ish.

No Band 1 compo is the 1st round pick directly after your pick as a result of your ladder finish the previous year. (eg North finished 2nd last and got Band 1 compo for McKay so they got Pick 3).

Band 2 compensation is end of first round AFTER all the fathers sons, compo, priority picks have been completed.

So we got Band 2 compensation for Gresham (end of 1st Round) which ultimately became Pick 28 - Collard.

There is no way we will get Band 1 compo for Battle.

 

[phantom13]

Hmm, my memory was that it was indeed movement from D50 to F50, so not retention. The issue was flagged by Joey that we’re able to rebound, we just can’t get it inside 50 effectively.

A lot of that is around lacking any punch across the guts as well as having a relatively inexperienced forward line - I think today showed that, F50 actually looked much better with King and Higgins firing, we just had zero zip through the middle, no space to work with.

I think Lyon does like to have this side play with overlap through the back half, so to imply he just wants retention though there I think is misleading. If that was the case you’d see teams playing more a forward half possession game against us which would’ve counteracted stats shown by Joey.

He talked about movement but his stats were all retention. He showed a few clips of handball overlap but watch us, it’s the exception not the rule.

The stats back it up to, lots of possesions and marks (last week in particular) but **** all inside 50.

Again we know we have ball carriers and kicks that can take the game on but we don’t do it. To me that has to be instruction. Or did Nas, Sincs, Mase, Hill etc all just forget how to kick.

 

[phantom13]

No Band 1 compo is the 1st round pick directly after your pick as a result of your ladder finish the previous year. (eg North finished 2nd last and got Band 1 compo for McKay so they got Pick 3).

Band 2 compensation is end of first round AFTER all the fathers sons, compo, priority picks have been completed.

So we got Band 2 compensation for Gresham (end of 1st Round) which ultimately became Pick 28 - Collard.

There is no way we will get Band 1 compo for Battle.

Yeh go back and read your post you said “end of band 1” there’s no such thing.

You’re saying we will get end of round 1 which is band 2.

Hate to disappoint people but there's no way anyone is paying Band 1 compo money for Battle.

End of Band 1 - maybe.

 

[SaintJunior]

Turgid, dreadful football from us.

Most of you seem to think building a successful AFL football team is basically about building a list.

It’s just not.

It’s about having a gameplan and style that is up-to-date and, most importantly, develops players.

Ross Lyon’s gameplan is so far behind the league it isn’t funny.

Even worse is that, his horrible defensive style only works with squads that are contending.

His style with a developing squad is an absolute disaster.

If you’re for some reason sticking up for what our club has become under Bassat’s horrendous decision making (Ross Lyon FC), you are part of the problem.

The very existence of our club demands that long term members and supporters hold our board accountable.

These board members are so far removed from understanding the trends of the modern game it is laughable.

But just watch them go into damage control now and blame the “list”.

It’s so predictable, and most of you will fall for it (in fact, lots already are, see lots of list blaming lately).

Just wondering if it is a game plan issue when your players can’t hit a 2 metre handball of 15 metre kick can’t hold basic marks make countless bad decisions with ball in hand .

I would argue that until our players can execute the fundamental essential basics of the game on a consistent basis that the game plan will be hard to improve or bed down .

Seriously how many players out there today do you see with the ball and go where this will go.

Not defending Lyon but these are the basic facts are skills and decision making are appealing .

 

[MickG88]

Anybody interested in getting Dean Cox

Dean Cox

Age

42

Ht

203cm

Wt

107kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.9

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.5

3star

G

0.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.0

1star

as our next head coach? Or Josh Carr

Josh Carr

Age

44

Ht

179cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.8

4star

K

10.6

4star

HB

7.2

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

0.8

3star

?

 

[Mat Mann]

I love battle, he’s probably my fave current player, tries his heart out, tough, skillful and workrate through the roof BUT I think we let him choose.

If he wants out then let him go and take the best deal we can get in compo, if he wants to stay then keep him. Upside either way

in true StKilda fashion we will encourage josh to find a great deal, then, when it's all settled and agreed to, the AFL will announce immediately that UFA won't net compensation and we'll get SFA for him

 

[phantom13]

Every week u blame the coaches, u better buckle up cos they not going to sack him they have totally rebuilt the admin team the recruiting team and now it’s the players turn, we are doing it right now or u wanna not win a flag for another 150 years

I haven’t said they’d sack him or that he’d leave but that doesn’t mean he’s immune to criticism? Because he’s got job security we should just fondle his bag shoukd we?

What on earth that you have seen this season makes you think Ross and co will take us to a flag?

Bizarre post this.

How many unrealistic attempts did they pay against McAdam today, flew like a pole jumper, didn't touch it in the air once. Umpiring has descended into umpire ball who, how and where is all they have to decide

Yeh honestly the umpiring this season has been an absolute debacle. It’s a tough game to umpire so I give them a fair bit of rope but just stick to obvious ones and let the other shit go.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Yeh go back and read your post you said “end of band 1” there’s no such thing.

You’re saying we will get end of round 1 which is band 2.

Ha ha - so I did - my stuff up. The tranquilisers are eventually kicking in.

Anyway just to confirm - we won't be getting a Top 5 pick for Battle if he leaves.

Early 20's at best

 

[puntking]

I haven’t said they’d sack him or that he’d leave but that doesn’t mean he’s immune to criticism? Because he’s got job security we should just fondle his bag shoukd we?

What on earth that you have seen this season makes you think Ross and co will take us to a flag?

Bizarre post this.


Yeh honestly the umpiring this season has been an absolute debacle. It’s a tough game to umpire so I give them a fair bit of rope but just stick to obvious ones and let the other shit go.

Who out there is a better option? He demands good standards knows what is needed to get there and surrounds himself with quality people

 

[puntking]

Everyone needs to calm their ****, We are re building.

 

[Premium]

Anybody interested in getting Dean Cox as our next head coach? Or Josh Carr?

Cox would be good , knows the ropes from Longmuir

 

[Macgruber]

It’s obvious the line coaches aren’t connected and the players have no idea what to do. Ross knows this and has mentioned our structures midfield/forward of the ball are an issue. He is trying to fix but this is the downside of hiring club legends.

My advise is
1) pick the best 22 that will have a crack next week. Kids stinking it up isn’t helping.

2)Time to move the magnet board Ross.

Possible moves:
Phillipou - wing/forward
Owens - inside mid
Paton - forward
Jones - defence (is not an afl mid)
Howard/battle - forward/wing
Stocker - midfield
Clark - half back

We need to revitalise this list somehow. I’m not suggesting we throw the baby out with the bath water but we need something. Two or three of these moves assist and we can at least have something to look forward to watch.

What a surprise Dow isn’t the midfield centrepiece we needed.

Sharman and Collard need to go.

Crouch Membrey back next week hopefully.

Hopefully west coast are off their game next week.

 

[Premium]

Who out there is a better option? He demands good standards knows what is needed to get there and surrounds himself with quality people

results speak - Lyons game plan is dated and his cronies are not very good.
better option you could do a better job

 

[Saint Shags]

No Band 1 compo is the 1st round pick directly after your pick as a result of your ladder finish the previous year. (eg North finished 2nd last and got Band 1 compo for McKay so they got Pick 3).

Band 2 compensation is end of first round AFTER all the fathers sons, compo, priority picks have been completed.

So we got Band 2 compensation for Gresham (end of 1st Round) which ultimately became Pick 28 - Collard.

There is no way we will get Band 1 compo for Battle.

So if he got 6-7 years you don't think that would be worthy of a Band 1?
I'd be suggesting any long term deal like that would definitely bring with it talk of Band 1.
What is he 26? Easily got plenty of years in front of him.

 

[malevu]

Having followed the Saints for 50 plus years and seen it all over and over again, I find some of the commentary about our club both naive and laughable.

Since our solitary flag under Alan Jeans every coach we've had has got the arse and never coached again. Everyone that is, except for Lyon. He was smart enough to jump ship before getting the sack, not like all the other suckers. (I'm not counting Ratten's winless stint as North's caretaker coach).

What does that tell you? Quite simply that St.Kilda is a coach killer. An end of career appointment. Then ask yourself were the likes of Ratten, Richo, Watters, Thomas, Blight, Watson, Alves, Sheldon etc. etc. all sh.it coaches or just maybe were their playing lists not quite good enough to get the job done? I know which I believe.

If you want to blame all the coaches for our perennial malaise then it doesn't say much for those who chose them. Must be crap judges.

I suspect eventually Lyon will get the same treatment this time around. Even if he jumps ship again this will be his last gig.

Would we be any better off with a new-breed coach rather than Lyon? Probably better to watch but you're kidding yourself if you think anyone else would have our current list in finals contention. Just have a look at Clarkson, the wonder coach, and North. How's that going?

All I'm saying is to focus on the real issue. The coach might be part of the problem but history tells me where the Saints are concerned there's a common denominator for our recurring failure.
The players.

 

[phantom13]

Who out there is a better option? He demands good standards knows what is needed to get there and surrounds himself with quality people

I listed a bunch of quality assistants in any event “WhO iS beTtEr” is a dumb reductive argument.

Because I don’t personally know who would make a better head coach for our club means he can’t be criticized?

It’s a stupid argument.

 

[puntking]

results speak - Lyons game plan is dated and his cronies are not very good.
better option you could do a better job

So for example the best coach in the last 20 years is currently winless should they sack him?

 

[phantom13]

Having followed the Saints for 50 plus years and seen it all over and over again, I find some of the commentary about our club both naive and laughable.

Since our solitary flag under Alan Jeans every coach we've had has got the arse and never coached again. Everyone that is, except for Lyon. He was smart enough to jump ship before getting the sack, not like all the other suckers. (I'm not counting Ratten's winless stint as North's caretaker coach).

What does that tell you? Quite simply that St.Kilda is a coach killer. An end of career appointment. Then ask yourself were the likes of Ratten, Richo, Watters, Thomas, Blight, Watson, Alves, Sheldon etc. etc. all sh.it coaches or just maybe were their playing lists not quite good enough to get the job done? I know which I believe.

If you want to blame all the coaches for our perennial malaise them it didn't say much for those who chose them. Must be crap judges.

I suspect eventually Lyon will get the same treatment this time around. Even if he jumps ship again this will be his last gig.

Would we be any better off with a new-breed coach rather than Lyon? Probably better to watch but you're kidding yourself if you think anyone else would have our current list in finals contention. Just have a look at Clarkson, the wonder coach, and North. How's that going?

All I'm saying is to focus on the real issue. The coach might be part of the problem but history tells me where the Saints are concerned there's a common denominator for our recurring failure.
The players.

Clarkson is an interesting comparison as an older coach who was a feel good appointment with very little vetting or consideration for if the current game and communicating with young players might be past him.

I’m sure that’s not what you meant but it’s an interesting thought.

Honestly the “believe in RTB” crew are boring.

No he’s not getting sacked soon, yes he might be the best experienced coach available, he might even be the best option for us right now but why does any of that mean he’s infallible and above criticism?

If he’s as good as you all think then all the shit we say about him he will already know and be working to fix.

I hope he does and proves me wrong (or proves me right but fixes it) but the blind defence is ridiculous.

 

[phantom13]

So for example the best coach in the last 20 years is currently winless should they sack him?

They never should have appointed him.

 

[puntking]

Having followed the Saints for 50 plus years and seen it all over and over again, I find some of the commentary about our club both naive and laughable.

Since our solitary flag under Alan Jeans every coach we've had has got the arse and never coached again. Everyone that is, except for Lyon. He was smart enough to jump ship before getting the sack, not like all the other suckers. (I'm not counting Ratten's winless stint as North's caretaker coach).

What does that tell you? Quite simply that St.Kilda is a coach killer. An end of career appointment. Then ask yourself were the likes of Ratten, Richo, Watters, Thomas, Blight, Watson, Alves, Sheldon etc. etc. all sh.it coaches or just maybe were their playing lists not quite good enough to get the job done? I know which I believe.

If you want to blame all the coaches for our perennial malaise then it doesn't say much for those who chose them. Must be crap judges.

I suspect eventually Lyon will get the same treatment this time around. Even if he jumps ship again this will be his last gig.

Would we be any better off with a new-breed coach rather than Lyon? Probably better to watch but you're kidding yourself if you think anyone else would have our current list in finals contention. Just have a look at Clarkson, the wonder coach, and North. How's that going?

All I'm saying is to focus on the real issue. The coach might be part of the problem but history tells me where the Saints are concerned there's a common denominator for our recurring failure.
The players.

Post of the year

 

[phantom13]

So if he got 6-7 years you don't think that would be worthy of a Band 1?
I'd be suggesting any long term deal like that would definitely bring with it talk of Band 1.
What is he 26? Easily got plenty of years in front of him.

25 right now.

Absolutely a scenario that could happen. 6-7 year deal at a mil a year with the cba increase is a strong possibility.

 

[saintbill]

I seriously have doubts over Lyons ability to develop a young side. He is only proven to be able to get the most out of a seasoned, hard fit group. I can see he is trying by playing the kids, but to me his coaching style is taxing.
I thought NAS tried his guts out all day and was our best. Windy tries hard, but unsure if he is going to much more then a role player at this stage. I think Owens is playing to heavy, and needs to drop weight over the summer and get better at covering the ground. Wilson is a jet, but he is also a promising saints youngster, so fair chance he won't develop into a star. Stocker tries hard but is limited, Bonner butchers the ball and is scared of contact. Henry got going as the game went on, just needs to find consistency. Kings efforts the past fortnight have been an improvement. Collard nowhere near the level at this stage, although our style of play doesn't help

Must admit I found the above story pretty alarming on many fronts. Shocking way to get the best out of young kids IMO.

1. Banishes a bloke for 8 weeks over 1 act he was unhappy with in a practice match.

2. Got Tom Lynch completely wrong. Incorrectly thought he was a spud, and then sooks it up because a young player was beaten by somebody he didn't rate.

Lyon comes across as incredibly stubborn. He only knows one way, and impossible to change his mind.

On top of that he appears to be a seriously limited game day coach. Has never developed a plan B.

Was fortunate to have elite senior players willing to flog themselves for his dour boring brand of footy in the past.

A lot has changed in the last 10 years. Young people today are a different beast altogether. Good luck inspiring them with this garbage.

 

[puntking]

Must admit I found the above story pretty alarming on many fronts. Shocking way to get the best out of young kids IMO.

1. Banishes a bloke for 8 weeks over 1 act he was unhappy with in a practice match.

2. Got Tom Lynch completely wrong. Incorrectly thought he was a spud, and then sooks it up because a young player was beaten by somebody he didn't rate.

Lyon comes across as incredibly stubborn. He only knows one way, and impossible to change his mind.

On top of that he appears to be a seriously limited game day coach. Has ever developed a plan B.

Was fortunate to have elite senior players willing to flog themselves for his dour boring brand of footy in the past.

A lot has changed in the last 10 years. Young people today are a different beast altogether. Good luck inspiring them with this garbage.

What’s the answer than? Do the saints thing and sack another coach?

 

[LeonardHayes87]

I think we now except the season is done and just get games into the kids. Keeler has done more than enough to warrant an opportunity, Hotton after kicking 5 this weekend is in the same boat. Garcia should be played every week also.

Players such as Ross, Webster, Membrey, Butler, Bonner and to some degree Wood … thanks gents but times up.

 

[Premium]

So for example the best coach in the last 20 years is currently winless should they sack him?

totally different age demographic - they don't have a Steele , Hill , Marshall , Wilkie , Sinclair - all he is working with is kids and a few very average older players.
If you think playing Collard was a good move today or bringing Seb Ross back in to be one of the core mids - you are as smart as Lyon