Autopsy Round 11, 2024: Melbourne v St.Kilda

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To all my fellow Saint supporters, I feel your pain, but…. fortunately for me, I jumped off this train wreck after the Freo game. Yesterday I missed the game, got home to watch the replay, fast forwarded so many times it was over in under a 1/2 hr. 😉
 

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Sir Owens said:
Didn't watch the game as I'm over in the US.

When I checked the results and saw we got flogged, Steele, Sinclair & Nas had 30, and King kicked 3, it was a stark reminder of how far off we are.

When you look at the ladder, I think it's a fair representation of where our list is at. Whether you're a Ross fan or not, we don't have enough talent on the list. It's as simple as that.

On a positive note, Henry and Wilson, by all reports, played ok. We need to keep unearthing players like that going forward.
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Simple as this and sorry to say the cull must continue. If I were SOS I'd be looking directly at Steele and Marshall.
 
saintbill said:
If we lose the next 2 weeks we don't have any winnable games until round 19.

We are genuinely staring down the barrel of a 3-14 start.

Pressure on Ross and the club is going to be fever pitch if this happens. If we win 4 or 5 games for they year, Lyon may be cooked for sooner than what we think is possible.
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It's just not like that. There may be outside noise but the club is all in on Ross. He'll see out the four years for sure.

Strap in, it's obviously a bottom four year. It's all about signs from kids at this stage.
 
seasonedsainter said:
Simple as this and sorry to say the cull must continue. If I were SOS I'd be looking directly at Steele and Marshall.
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Agree
No more game plan shyte
Unskilled fumbly poor decision makers to go
It’s the core of the kids coming through
Anyone else “gettable” for right price
Agree with whoever said there’s a reason we have a long list of unsigned…
 
beside the seaside said:
It's just not like that. There may be outside noise but the club is all in on Ross. He'll see out the four years for sure.

Strap in, it's obviously a bottom four year. It's all about signs from kids at this stage.
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I say this with the greatest of respect but we really really need to quit with the “strap in” stuff.

If Ross just gets his 4 years, regardless of anything, results, development, progression, draft results etc. it’s EXACTLY what’s wrong with this club. I think Kane Cornes said it about Richmond and Yze, that club and it’s supporters won’t accept their shot performances and lack of effort and progression because they are a big club and won’t cop that shit.

We need to have more of that mindset. To be clear I’m not saying turf Ross now, I’m not even saying he needs to make finals (again) in his 4 year term but he can’t just have a completely blank ledger on KPIs for the next 2 and 1/2 seasons, he needs to have some accountability and pressure somewhere.
 
Saint Shags said:
He has a year.
If we are still this bad at the halfway point next year. The club will need to let him go. Ross may not get the option. He is no special than any other coach.
And if that were to occur the Pres and Board need to resign as well.
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He'd have to be really bad for him to go in a year. We've changed every major role at the club due to him and mostly filled the positions with his close friends.

He shouldn't be more special than any other coach but the amount of power we've given him says we are treating him like he is.
 
Saint Shags said:
Funnily enough I think the loss of Gresh has hurt us more than we realised. Yes his disposal was crap but when he was in the middle he provided something different.
Problem was we never went for the replacement.




I'm all for playing the kids.
But.
And this comes to selection integrity. I would have rathered the likes of Garcia and Hastie more time. They have shown more at both VFL and AFL level. We do Collard no favours.




And this is on the choices made by the club.
We've ended up having a department run by yes men. What I would give to have kept Walsh on as Football Director. We needed someone to actually ask the questions as to is it the right choice. Instead we've placed guys that have worked under Ross into important positions.
How in the world we gave BJ the role boggles the mind. And the fact that it was ticked off is ridiculous.
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Henry should hopefully he that Gresh replacement with time but that hamstring injury has really set him back. Good to see him spend time in the midfield and hopefully he can be that point of difference we need.

Walsh was such a huge loss, even if he had barely started. Having Ross' mates in every position that he answers too does us no favours and not having enough people who have worked under different systems shows. It's also concerning that almost everyone who was at the club before him couldn't work with him.
 
Kain26Toad said:
So, do we win another game this season?
Maybe one, either WC or Rich at Marvel.
That's it though, yeah?
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On current form yeh and to be frank even those are 50/50 at best. Richmond would have us right this minute, West Coast here... Id think wed get them right now but thats a couple weeks away, Yeo might be back etc.

Its conceivable (albeit unlikely) we dont win another game and North doesnt win one at all.
 
The last several games I have watched the game differently. I have focussed on how we use the ball and how our opposition do.

At present our ball use is simply far worse than our opposition. Today that was the key reason why the Dees were easily the better team.

Our inability to hit targets by foot, and hand hurts us in two ways. It creates opportunities for the opposition, and also denies scoring opportunities for us.


Some of that ball use is poor and so shows up as a turnover. But a lot is just poorly directed so will be say a kick to a stationary team mate who then gets hammered.



Now why are we so bad? Some say it is game plan. I doubt that personally, as the game plan has us competitive at times.

Now yes it could be our skills coaching is poor.

Personally, I think it is more that too many of our players are just innately not good users of the ball. Both in the skill of the kick/handball, but also very much in the choice of the player as to where the kick/handball/ tap goes

For example today, one pass was to Collard on Tom McDonald. Collard was in front, but does the ball go in short so Collard can use his pace to mark against his much bigger opponent? No it goes in high, so that McDonald can outmark the much shorter and lighter Collard. Now all teams make bad passes, but we just do it way too often.

Our good passes are rare. ie Ross made two rippers to Higgins today where with Higgins behind his opponent, the ball was kicked long perfectly each time.
 
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stfan said:
The last several games I have watched the game differently. I have focussed on how we use the ball and how our opposition do.

At present our ball use is simply far worse than our opposition. Today that was the key reason why the Dees were easily the better team.

Our inability to hit targets by foot, and hand hurts us in two ways. It creates opportunities for the opposition, and also denies scoring opportunities for us.


Some of that ball use is poor and so shows up as a turnover. But a lot is just poorly directed so will be say a kick to a stationary team mate who then gets hammered.



Now why are we so bad? Some say it is game plan. I doubt that personally, as the game plan has us competitive at times.

Now yes it could be our skills coaching is poor.

Personally, I think it is more that too many of our players are just innately not good users of the ball. Both in the skill of the kick/handball, but also very much in the choice of the player as to where the kick/handball/ tap goes

For example today, one pass was to Collard on Tom McDonald. Collard was in front, but does the ball go in short so Collard can use his pace to mark against his much bigger opponent? No it goes in high, so that McDonald can outmark the much shorter and lighter Collard. Not all teams make bad passes, but we just do it way too often.

Our good passes are rare. ie Ross made two rippers to Higgins today where with Higgins behind his opponent, the ball was kicked long perfectly each time.
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I think its both.
 
stfan said:
Our good passes are rare. ie Ross made two rippers to Higgins today where with Higgins behind his opponent, the ball was kicked long perfectly each time.
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Thank god someone else saw this. I've already read Seb libel this morning on the socials ("Cloggers") but in the last quarter Ross was still busting a gut while our "captain" was jogging. Seb's two lovely kicks to Higgins led to two goals as they were perfect assessments and executions. Max also benefitted from some occasional kicks to his advantage.

I'd rather have the blokes still working hard when eight goals down. To use the soccer parlance, give Seb or Rowan the armband. The two two-time B&F winners both had more of the ball yesterday and were both awful.
 
BrutThough said:
He'd have to be really bad for him to go in a year. We've changed every major role at the club due to him and mostly filled the positions with his close friends.

He shouldn't be more special than any other coach but the amount of power we've given him says we are treating him like he is.
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Look if we are at Round 11 next year and we are 3W 8L and there is no improvement. The board will be under that much pressure. Doesn't matter who you are.
 
My other thoughts:

  • I know it is very early, but how many more performances like that before I can legitimately voice "Brad Howard" concerns about Lance Collard? I'm yet to see a discernable AFL skill at the required level.
  • On that, Melbourne were supposed to be weaker in tall defence yesterday with Lever out, so we make Sharman sub. An explanation to that piece of genius would be nice.
  • There's been a lot of umpire criticism this year, but one of the few good things done this year is they have decided to let more stuff go in ruck contests and just let the big blokes compete. So why does Max Gawn get to play under last year's rules? Better than 1 in every 4 free kicks paid yesterday were paid to Max Gawn. He's a fantastic player, but it sure makes it easier to be fantastic when you get a ride like that.
 
I pray to god Bonner is out this week and never returns. He seems to find the ball, but his decision making and ball use is horrific. Plus he seems terrified of body contact. I'd rather just see hastie play out the year in his position.

I wasn't expecting much from paddy Dow, and he has delivered just that. He was supposed to at least be a centre clearance king, but looks small and weak, pushed off the ball far to easy, and if you watch him in general play, he gets murdered on the spread.
 
Saint Shags said:
Look if we are at Round 11 next year and we are 3W 8L and there is no improvement. The board will be under that much pressure. Doesn't matter who you are.
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That would also require the entire board to stand down given the circumstances behind them hiring Ross.

Even if we were 3 and 8, the people who decided to blow everything up to him back while on that luxury yacht birthday cruise probably have too big of an ego to declare what they did a mistake and make a change.
 
I really hope internally our issues dont get dismissed and put down to a talent issue.

We might have holes on our list but the amount of players we've had go backwards this year isn't a talent issue. It's something much larger. And if we put it down to just a lack of talent, we won't see much improvement moving forward because the root caused won't have been addressed.
 
tomjoad said:
#gringo2011, is going to go freakin' WILD over this...😆
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Actually hate yacht rock, it's one of music's most ridiculous genres so great comedic value. Like prog rock and muzak had a baby that developed a sedative addiction. That said I bought a Jerry Rafferty album and it's actually very good.
 
The Punter said:
Thank god someone else saw this. I've already read Seb libel this morning on the socials ("Cloggers") but in the last quarter Ross was still busting a gut while our "captain" was jogging. Seb's two lovely kicks to Higgins led to two goals as they were perfect assessments and executions. Max also benefitted from some occasional kicks to his advantage.

I'd rather have the blokes still working hard when eight goals down. To use the soccer parlance, give Seb or Rowan the armband. The two two-time B&F winners both had more of the ball yesterday and were both awful.
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Don't get the Ross hate, and never have. He's no star, and has obvious limitations, but he's worked bloody hard to get every drop of "footballer" out of himself. Yes, we should be able to move past him; however, the fact that we can't shows just how insipid the rest of the team is. If the rest of the list - quite a few with a heap more natural ability than Seb has - were willing to put in the effort he has over his 200+ game career, then we would be a LOT better off.
 
Some observations from the Ponsford Stand

Max King needs to work on his endurance tank big time. May blew him up and it was disturbing that it was only off a few 30m sprints. Max had hands on hips gulping in air for most of the last quarter. No wonder he played higher up the ground in the first half but then deep in the 2nd.

There are certain days that we need to play a tall, traditional ruckman. Yesterday was one of them. At least give our ordinary mids the odd chance of one down their throat. Play Marshall forward/2nd ruck on those days.

Results shout "game plan" to many. Spreading the ball out from the backline and the missed handballs and kicks from either them or the midfield on the next handball/kick. The poor option taken. I'm not sure how it screams game plan other than the low scoring across games.
I blame the players. A lot looked uninterested yesterday and seemed to crack the sads with each other. Give them the life-raft of blaming the coach though and I'm sure they'll jump at it to keep their job.
 
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