Autopsy Round 17, 2025: Hawks defeat boredom

[fairdinks]

Resting Gunston in v GC cost us 4 points. We just had a bye so there is no need to rest anyone. We must go in a full strength v Freo, Crows and Brisbane. They are the three most important games. 8 point games. Win two of those three and we are top 4.

With Freo having two genuine rucks, maybe Ramsden gets another week. Lewis and Dear both look ready, but neither rucks which means Chol reverts to more ruck time. Scrim to replace Mitchell as sub. We need his versatility,

Agree WH. Perhaps only one of Dear/Lewis comes in this week and Ramma stays to help combat their rucks'. I suspect it will be Dear as he has slightly more conditioning than Lewis ATM.

The only other change is to bring Fin M back to tag serong. It seemed to work for the swans this week, but not sure we will follow suit.

Maybe Dear for Seamus is the only change unless we have an injury not yet mentioned.

 

[flinchfree]

Nobody has really stopped him for 2 years now. But if you look at the game in the last quarter he as on ball and there was a stoppage in our forward flank. Was our best defensive mid Nash on him? No. Someone like Dambrosio who could run with him? No.

Jack Ginnivan was along side him and then 5 meters then 10 meters then 50 meters behind him as he strolled into forward 50 and thankfully missed an easy shot on goal with no pressure on him.

If we were tagging him, we'd have had someone other than ginnivan right on him in that last quarter where he got 15 disposals. If Finn were playing and tagging him, every single shot in his highlights you would see Finn right there.

It is a bit of a concern that our small forwards are not capable of being defensive on the running backs as a few have gotten us this season. I think it's worth Mitchell coming into the backline so Impy can go forward and play defensive on them and attack the other way.

I hear you. And we didn't bring in Finn so Sam isn't looking to run a purely defensive tag.
Every choice on assignment for each of our players has a potential payoff and cost.
Every fan watches what doesn't work, but has no idea what WAS working elsewhere as a result of the coaching decisions.
In this instance, I'm putting it on the players for not achieving the outcome desired, not a dumbass outcoached man in the box.
I'm going to believe Sam when he says what he said, and not as some others have suggested that he was literally lying in post match comments.

 

[cryptor]

Had to laugh at all the Saints fans booing Battle all game and then wetting themselves in excitement every time Tauru did something.

They wouldn’t have had the pick they used to select him if Battle hadn’t left them.

 

[Yardie]

Sounds about right.

Unless we manage Gunston and omit Ramsden. Bring both of them in.

Could give Ramma one more game though, but not taking Gunston to WA makes sense to me.

I think Lewis will come in for Ramsden, he was playing a true CHF. Dear is fighting for Gunston's spot.

 

[Yardie]

Resting Gunston in v GC cost us 4 points. We just had a bye so there is no need to rest anyone. We must go in a full strength v Freo, Crows and Brisbane. They are the three most important games. 8 point games. Win two of those three and we are top 4.

With Freo having two genuine rucks, maybe Ramsden gets another week. Lewis and Dear both look ready, but neither rucks which means Chol reverts to more ruck time. Scrim to replace Mitchell as sub. We need his versatility,

I'd like to see Chol go up against Jackson. He would negate his agility at ground level.

 

[Walshawk]

I'd like to see Chol go up against Jackson. He would negate his agility at ground level.

Aside from taking centre bounces, Chol doesn’t ruck. First half of the season Weddle and Nash were rucking around the ground. With Weddle out, that changes Nash’s role if we drop Ramma. Dear used to play second ruck as a junior but would not have the fitness ATM.

 

[chippie]

One of the main consensus in this thread is that our midfield was our weakness Saturday night with Day still out. If this is true do we try to negate Serong on Saturday like Jordan did? I feel at the moment we would be better served with Butts or Finn in as defensive mids until McKenzie finds some form at Box Hill.

 

[Snoref]

No freo vs hawks thread?

 

[VandoHawk]

One of the main consensus in this thread is that our midfield was our weakness Saturday night with Day still out. If this is true do we try to negate Serong on Saturday like Jordan did? I feel at the moment we would be better served with Butts or Finn in as defensive mids until McKenzie finds some form at Box Hill.

Keep in mind that St. Kilda pushed both their half-backs and half-forwards up to stoppage. Worpel and Mackenzie would win the ball then immediately encounter three Saints players.

We seemed content to let it happen because it meant our backline could intercept most of the time.

I would place greater emphasis on stopping rebounding half-backs like Clark. Zorko, NWM, Rozee, Noble etc. have caused some real damage against us.

 

[reubski23]

No freo vs hawks thread?

Preview - Freo vs Hawks

Win we basically cement ourselves in finals - lose we have to steal a game again Pies, Cats or Lions. Huge game - no resting no-one literally had a bye a couple of weeks ago and then played North. In Deer Out Ramsdan (very unlucky) Significant improvement needed from our mid-field not...

www.bigfooty.com

Created one

 

[grumbleguts]

Joe Wembley has a new name and it is gold:

 

[ReturningHawk]

I hear you. And we didn't bring in Finn so Sam isn't looking to run a purely defensive tag.
Every choice on assignment for each of our players has a potential payoff and cost.
Every fan watches what doesn't work, but has no idea what WAS working elsewhere as a result of the coaching decisions.
In this instance, I'm putting it on the players for not achieving the outcome desired, not a dumbass outcoached man in the box.
I'm going to believe Sam when he says what he said, and not as some others have suggested that he was literally lying in post match comments.

That’s not fair, fans aren’t stupid. What worked: Max Ramsden. What didn’t work: Seamus Mitchell. The swap was a mistake from the coaches box.

 

[flinchfree]

That’s not fair, fans aren’t stupid. What worked: Max Ramsden. What didn’t work: Seamus Mitchell. The swap was a mistake from the coaches box.

Sorry, it's completely fair and you illustrate it pretty clearly.
EVERY other position on the ground is affected by who you play on who and at what time.

Max Ramsden had 5 possessions. He was looking reasonably likely, but if he'd stayed on you have zero idea if he'd gain another. You're presuming his participation would have been valuable as the game went on, but have no knowledge it would have. It also means for example that every other player has to do running and cover ground both offensively and defensively that Max can't. That kind of thing can mean needing to run more rotations - which are capped, it means lower sprint speeds because they're facing repeat loads, it could mean stress related injury - like hamstrings, it can mean other matchups you weren't planning on having to address becoming hot spots, I mean.....it's bloody endless.
The coaches are planning for overall effectiveness and that includes so many factors you wouldn't even begin to imagine, I really think you're having a lend if you believe it's as simple as one player in/one player out.

Now maybe your take WOULD have worked out, but we just don't have any way to know or test for that.
Or as I believe, maybe some of the players simply didn't have the requisite focus and drive to meet every obstacle they faced on the day. Maybe a couple were underdone but it only showed up at AFL game speed. They met a determined opposition and needed to go to higher levels to overwhelm them, which they couldn't find.
And still. We won.
We might have lost had we followed your supposition because of every butterfly effect that takes place when one course is actioned upon.
The real art and brilliance from the coach happens at selection, training and gameplan.
Game day management is of course important and some coaches are elite at it. At this stage, I couldn't tell you I'm sure one way or another whether Sam is.
But I know he's got a helluva group around him, that they trust and communicate really well, and whom Sam will empower to make decisions in real time throughout the match. Thus far, i'd say they've achieved some pretty damn good results.
Sammy's biggest contributions to the teams performance comes all those hours through the week leading up to gameday. Is he great at communicating what's needed, is he brilliant at helping players find their potential, is he consistent with his emotional output, does he create an elite environment for players to grow and achieve in, can he spot the small changes a player can make to his game style that have important flow on effects, etc etc.

It just seems a looooooooooong way off base for you to come off a short run and take a pretty plainly simplistic pot shot at the Coach and determine that one move was the significant factor in our performance.

 

[grumbleguts]

So we should rename the Brownlow medal the Wembley-Bubblr medal.

 

[ReturningHawk]

Sorry, it's completely fair and you illustrate it pretty clearly.
EVERY other position on the ground is affected by who you play on who and at what time.

Max Ramsden had 5 possessions. He was looking reasonably likely, but if he'd stayed on you have zero idea if he'd gain another. You're presuming his participation would have been valuable as the game went on, but have no knowledge it would have. It also means for example that every other player has to do running and cover ground both offensively and defensively that Max can't. That kind of thing can mean needing to run more rotations - which are capped, it means lower sprint speeds because they're facing repeat loads, it could mean stress related injury - like hamstrings, it can mean other matchups you weren't planning on having to address becoming hot spots, I mean.....it's bloody endless.
The coaches are planning for overall effectiveness and that includes so many factors you wouldn't even begin to imagine, I really think you're having a lend if you believe it's as simple as one player in/one player out.

Now maybe your take WOULD have worked out, but we just don't have any way to know or test for that.
Or as I believe, maybe some of the players simply didn't have the requisite focus and drive to meet every obstacle they faced on the day. Maybe a couple were underdone but it only showed up at AFL game speed. They met a determined opposition and needed to go to higher levels to overwhelm them, which they couldn't find.
And still. We won.
We might have lost had we followed your supposition because of every butterfly effect that takes place when one course is actioned upon.
The real art and brilliance from the coach happens at selection, training and gameplan.
Game day management is of course important and some coaches are elite at it. At this stage, I couldn't tell you I'm sure one way or another whether Sam is.
But I know he's got a helluva group around him, that they trust and communicate really well, and whom Sam will empower to make decisions in real time throughout the match. Thus far, i'd say they've achieved some pretty damn good results.
Sammy's biggest contributions to the teams performance comes all those hours through the week leading up to gameday. Is he great at communicating what's needed, is he brilliant at helping players find their potential, is he consistent with his emotional output, does he create an elite environment for players to grow and achieve in, can he spot the small changes a player can make to his game style that have important flow on effects, etc etc.

It just seems a looooooooooong way off base for you to come off a short run and take a pretty plainly simplistic pot shot at the Coach and determine that one move was the significant factor in our performance.

You’re over complicating this a fair bit. It’s not a taking pot shot at the coach to say that subbing off Ramsden was a mistake. Sam’s a truly great game day coach, but everyone makes mistakes. We didn’t have the right plan for the opposition’s most obvious threat, and it led us to make a panicked sub, which had no effect on NWM, removed our best forward target on the night, got Tauru into the game, and generally helped them to take control of the game in the second half. Our coaches would be reviewing it hard.

 

[Yardie]

You’re over complicating this a fair bit. It’s not a taking pot shot at the coach to say that subbing off Ramsden was a mistake. Sam’s a truly great game day coach, but everyone makes mistakes. We didn’t have the right plan for the opposition’s most obvious threat, and it led us to make a panicked sub, which had no effect on NWM, removed our best forward target on the night, got Tauru into the game, and generally helped them to take control of the game in the second half. Our coaches would be reviewing it hard.

I think sometimes Sam makes a tactical sub that messes with team structure. Or just has the wrong the person as the sub.

He needs to work on this aspect of his coaching, noting that he has improved from the start of the season.

 

[marklar]

I think sometimes Sam makes a tactical sub that messes with team structure. Or just has the wrong the person as the sub.

He needs to work on this aspect of his coaching, noting that he has improved from the start of the season.

When Sam talks like how we're far from a finished product, he's including himself in that assessment.

It's not that long ago he was still playing, he's only just been given the keys to the Ferrari and is still learning how to shift gears.

 

[Harper_Hawk]

When Sam talks like how we're far from a finished product, he's including himself in that assessment.

It's not that long ago he was still playing, he's only just been given the keys to the Ferrari and is still learning how to shift gears.

I thought he was shifting the gears pretty well in the Ferrari toward the back end of last season. Feels like he’s driving a Volvo now and somehow still getting from A to B. The terrain up ahead is going to get tricky.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Cannot believe the negativity .
We are 11-5.
Brisbane are 11-4-1
The only reason Geelong will finish higher is their fixture is basically vfl from here on.
We have developed a great even team without anyone who is widely regarded as a-lister or top 5 pick (wiz aside). All top teams have high end top draft pick talent or high profile free agents, which carry them - we do not.
We made this even side from moneyball drafting and are competitive . Top 6 finish and anything can happen . Cheer up!

Not to mention the list age profile is to die for.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Had to laugh at all the Saints fans booing Battle all game and then wetting themselves in excitement every time Tauru did something.

They wouldn’t have had the pick they used to select him if Battle hadn’t left them.

There want much in it. Felt more like they were using an outlet to vent frustration.

I know saints fans, they still like Battle, he's a likable fella.

Besides, his DE was 100% until the last and ended on 92%. It didn't work!