Game Day Round 22, 2022: St.Kilda v Brisbane

[plugger66]

Tend to agree. The team on paper looks incredibly average. There's a fair bit of work to do but mostly we need some luck with Owens, Windy and Nasiah. A graders change everything, including making average players look better.

That’s a great point. Put some Melbourne players in our side and they would struggle. Put Oliver petracca and gawn in our side and average players will look much better. What club would worry about any player at our club bar sinclair. I doubt they even worry about Steele because he doesn’t set up play.

 

[MordySaint]

From our Coach - "Energy has been good, The Boys are up and about"

That's a positive already.

 

[BrutThough]

All logic says we are no chance tonight but I hope they can surprise us all.

Brisbane are such a potent scoring team so the mids will need to be switched on from the start to help limit their supply. Stopping Neale will be important - huge task for Windy. We are going to need both Steele and Crouch to play their very best.

Up forward is my biggest worry. Instead of putting on Max to kick a bag, I'm putting it on Higgins, Butler and Membrey to support him better and up their contribution. Especially Higgins who hasn't rebound his pre-concussion form.

I am hoping for the upset. Saints by 1 point.

 

[The Punter]

The real "big picture" question about the list is can it be built to compete without 1-2 years right at the bottom of the ladder with the access to better picks that encompasses. I think many are happy to see us bottom out, as if that guarantees later success, while not necessarily being happy to undergo the weekly disappointment of attending matches supporting a poor side (and we aren't poor, just clearly middling). Because if crowds end up where North's ended up this year, the club may face an existential crisis.

 

[g_TRAIN]

I hate watching us at the moment. Our ball movement, cohesion, lack of any system, and then inability to finish are just depressing.

Would love to see us take the shackles of tonight and play with some freedom.

Maybe get a rising star nomination would be nice too

 

[lewdogs]

That’s a great point. Put some Melbourne players in our side and they would struggle. Put Oliver petracca and gawn in our side and average players will look much better. What club would worry about any player at our club bar sinclair. I doubt they even worry about Steele because he doesn’t set up play.

The crazy thing is when you look at our side on paper you could actually argue that we have overachieved this year. Obviously that doesn't suit the narrative that Ratts can't coach but it genuinely seems that way to me.

If we end up on 12 or 13 wins without making finals it would be so unlucky, especially with our draw. That suggests to me we are coached alright but need more good players, the problem is that's probably harder to fix.

 

[g_TRAIN]

The crazy thing is when you look at our side on paper you could actually argue that we have overachieved this year. Obviously that doesn't suit the narrative that Ratts can't coach but it genuinely seems that way to me.

If we end up on 12 or 13 wins without making finals it would be so unlucky, especially with our draw. That suggests to me we are coached alright but need more good players, the problem is that's probably harder to fix.

The way we look on paper changes a lot depending on how we play though.

The first half of the year we had Higgins, Gresham, King, and Sinclair at one point all looking like AA players, Wilki also in the squad of 40.

A good system elevates players and makes them look much better - we have not had that for so long it's hard to actually gauge how good we are on paper.

 

[plugger66]

The real "big picture" question about the list is can it be built to compete without 1-2 years right at the bottom of the ladder with the access to better picks that encompasses. I think many are happy to see us bottom out, as if that guarantees later success, while not necessarily being happy to undergo the weekly disappointment of attending matches supporting a poor side (and we aren't poor, just clearly middling). Because if crowds end up where North's ended up this year, the club may face an existential crisis.

I don’t think we could do another bottoming out. And I don’t think the list is bad enough to do it unless you traded potential stars. We aren’t trading Steele king Marshall or sinclair Gresh would get a high teens pick but losing him wouldn’t drop us down the bottom. I think we have no choice but to ride it out and hope the list has stars In it. It very well could. I really love the way windhanger and owens play. Not so sold on Milera yet but he does magical things. And king can only get better. I can see him leading the goal kicking within 2 years unless we are very ordinary.

 

[gringo2011]

The crazy thing is when you look at our side on paper you could actually argue that we have overachieved this year. Obviously that doesn't suit the narrative that Ratts can't coach but it genuinely seems that way to me.

If we end up on 12 or 13 wins without making finals it would be so unlucky, especially with our draw. That suggests to me we are coached alright but need more good players, the problem is that's probably harder to fix.

Might as well shut the club then. It's not going to miraculously improve. We either have the core or we don't. Why would you people say we need DeGoey one minute then think that we aren't even close. It makes no logical sense. If we are as bad as you say then we need to stop topping up and start drafting .....but the staff are excellent but not good enough at the same time in your land.

 

[plugger66]

Jesus. Just as well I'm the negative one. You positive people say there is nothing to criticise the club about then say the list is a write off and need to bottom out and that there is no chance to improve because everything we have is bottom of the barrel.

I think the club think the same way unfortunately. No standards, no interest in improvement. As long as we middle along without raping a dwarf or lighting anything on fire they are happy to pull a wage.

Even Kochy has put the whole club on notice after one bad year, at least that's a bad one for them, that's our normal. If we bottom out again I'm not sure we would survive, so many fans are already pissed off.

Koch is on tv so we hear about it. I don’t think our president is suited to tv but that doesn’t mean he lets them off the hook. And I reckon the club wouldn’t even slightly be thinking what you wrote. Why would anyone bother investing time if they thought that way. North wouldn’t even be thinking that way.

 

[The Punter]

Jesus. Just as well I'm the negative one. You positive people say there is nothing to criticise the club about then say the list is a write off and need to bottom out and that there is no chance to improve because everything we have is bottom of the barrel.

I think the club think the same way unfortunately. No standards, no interest in improvement. As long as we middle along without raping a dwarf or lighting anything on fire they are happy to pull a wage.

Even Kochy has put the whole club on notice after one bad year, at least that's a bad one for them, that's our normal. If we bottom out again I'm not sure we would survive, so many fans are already pissed off.

I think Port are in a different situation - coach has been there for 10 seasons and a feeling like they might be past their opportunity to have a crack.

And I was merely asking the question about whether people thought the list could compete without going backward first. I'm more in the camp of "players need to improve", which is, of course, the job of the coaching staff.

I worry about the three kids not getting better after this year. Windy, Owens and NWM could be the young nucleus to go with the older group to compete, but only if they get better from what they are now. We felt the same way about Dunstan, Billings and Acres. The similarities are stark. King needs 3 goals for a 50 goal season, and we all think he needs to get better again. We must demand improvement from players currently on the list.

 

[lewdogs]

Might as well shut the club then. It's not going to miraculously improve. We either have the core or we don't. Why would you people say we need DeGoey one minute then think that we aren't even close. It makes no logical sense. If we are as bad as you say then we need to stop topping up and start drafting .....but the staff are excellent but not good enough at the same time in your land.

I'm not saying we are not close but we lack star players which is why De Goey would be perfect but unfortunately isn't happening. He wouldn't be topping up because it doesn't cost draft picks.

We drafted heavily last year and may have landed three guns which is great hopefully we do the same this year.

"Might as well shut the club then" what does that even mean?

 

[plugger66]

Might as well shut the club then. It's not going to miraculously improve. We either have the core or we don't. Why would you people say we need DeGoey one minute then think that we aren't even close. It makes no logical sense. If we are as bad as you say then we need to stop topping up and start drafting .....but the staff are excellent but not good enough at the same time in your land.

I’m sure he can speak for himself but he didn’t say the current list is no good into the future. He was speaking about how it looks now. Maybe go back to our 2002 side. I bet at the time many said that list isn’t good enough at this stage. Matter of fact I’m sure but you know what happened. Pretty much the same list with a couple added ended up probably being the best list the club has ever had. At the moment there is 4 or 5 playing who aren’t really ready yet but in 2 years those same 4 or 5 could be the hayes the dal the Joey etc. I don’t think we are far off. I do think on paper in 2022 that list looks bloody average.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Windhanger and owens have to come on quickly We will probably struggle for gresh to start next year but he is another vital mid who plays elsewhere.

I have faith that Windy and Owens will become capable of playing genuine mid roles next year like the Sydney young players. We'll make finals next year

 

[CaptainRisky]

How many beers do I need to drink pre game to get through this impending disaster?

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Live to air on Channel 7 which is a bonus

bodes well for us based on our record

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I have accepted Gringo's offer of no heartbreak until round 23, so I'm having a stress free Friday knowing that we're going to win.

I have decided that the most st kilda thing to do would be to make finals win finals all the way up to the grand final and then break our hearts there. so i'll see you guys in the grannie

 

[The_Steadier]

look at our side on paper

Our president did exactly that 12 months ago... and declared 2022 was the year we are to begin challenging for a premiership.

(Which is obviously going great guns at this point.)

Why did he say that?

The core of our list and all (bar max) of our star players are in their prime years- they are currently the best combination of experienced and fit as they will EVER be.

Looking at our side 'on paper' is a damning indictment of our football department's strategy and coaching, not an excuse they can use.

Our football department have at their disposal a list that is practically injury free, experienced and fit.

And they are MILES off being competitive against most finals sides- and have been that way for 2 years now in general.

Bar sinclair, none of our core players have played career best football in the last two years, despite them being in their prime years.

You're barking up the wrong tree pointing the finger at the list.
Take one look at how utterly disorganised we are tonight across the park and ask yourself "how on earth could anybody play to their full potential in amongst that collection of headless chooks?"

It's a miracle sinclair has managed to do it, and no suprise he's practically the only one.

 

[plugger66]

Our problem is we accept mediocrity way too easily.

Who does? I doubt the club do or they wouldn’t be constantly making changes. You can just sack everyone and start again.

 

[Klaatu]

Our problem is we accept mediocrity way too easily.

Who doe's the club or supporter.

 

[Hubnester]

Our only hope for tonight and for the season is to identify what changed at the mid-point of the season and address it.
it really feels like someone flicked a switch and we suddenly looked like an awful, disjointed team.

But I've been waiting for them to work it out and switch it back on for about 2 months now and it just isn't happening unfortunately.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Having a quiet one in preparation of the game tonight

Have just arrived at Platform 28. Should be good to go by 7:50

 

[plugger66]

So you're giving yourself a bet each way. Okay. It's a terrible list but it's also a good list with heaps of development left in it. Insightful. Collingwood, Freo, Geelong, Sydney don't look very exciting on paper either. I's another excuse to let of the club performing below standard again. Last year with a much worse and more injured list we went nearly as well. It was sub-par for the list available. Tonights match is looking s**t on paper because we've lost players, it doesn't mean they were all year.

You love your mayo to prove some sort of strange point. A terrible list? Who said that? It seems only you at this stage. I stand by what I said about 2002. A list can be ordinary at the time which it was in 2002. The same list with a couple added can be a great list 2 or 3 years later. You can stick with your fantasy that’s it’s a top 4 list now and I will continue to listen to footy experts who have never once mentioned our list is even too 8 let alone top 4. I will give you these names playing tonight and if you think it’s a top 4 list with them I reckon you are on another planet. Liernart wood windhanger Milera owens butler long Sharman Paton. That’s nearly half the side. I’d say the list seems to be about where it deserves to be this season. Why would I bother making an excuse for the club. I don’t employ them. I have no say in anything the club do. The difference is I believe you think whinging about the club will somehow help. I think me not whinging helps me. It helps my footy experience. Maybe what you do helps yours. We all have different ways to approach it. I will say one thing though well I say plenty of crap things but I know the club makes plenty of mistakes but I am certain this same conversation is taking place on every clubs forum even the dees. Many bulldog supporters would sack bevo even after winning the flag and another grand final in 8 years of coaching. If we do ever win a flag I couldn’t care less if the club was coached and run by a C grade ammo side afterwards.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Who doe's the club or supporter.

Both. Supporters being the lesser there.

 

[plugger66]

Our only hope for tonight and for the season is to identify what changed at the mid-point of the season and address it.
it really feels like someone flicked a switch and we suddenly looked like an awful, disjointed team.

But I've been waiting for them to work it out and switch it back on for about 2 months now and it just isn't happening unfortunately.

Not a hope it’s happening. Skills last week going forward were actually funny in a sad way. I will never understand what caused their loss of confidence. Maybe we are just the saints. That’s our lot in life. Fragile players supporters footy staff pets etc.