Review Round 8, 2019 - Western Bulldogs vs. Brisbane Lions

Who were your five best players against the Bulldogs?


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AFLQLD

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Cutler is a concern to me. He does some useful things and he certainly has some skill but in his role it has to be much more active defensively as well as in attack. I watched him closely today within the limits of the TV telecast. We just need a player who can play that manic roaming role up and back, cutting off ball, tackling to cause turnovers, gut running to be an option going forward, bobbing up where ever he is needed. I am not sure Cutler has enough of that in his game often enough.

Don’t get me wrong, he is a good footballer.
And having said all that I hope Cutler keeps learning and developing. At some point he could be the cream on top of the cake. I’m just not entirely sure we have the luxury of cream on our cake at the moment. But I am not sure who could come in to replace him. Guys like Squizzy and Basti offer other talents but not necessarily more all round than Cutler. Allison might be an option but with arguably a more modest skill set than Cutler.

The one I would probably like to see play some time to develop in that role in NEAFL is Coleman - good defensively, works hard both ways, dangerous going forward, great reflexes, quick and instinctive, runs all day, a solid kick and good awareness. If he can show something in such a role and assuming we draft him, I think he would have a future.
 

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brutus76

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Lost it in the first half with some woeful kicking for goal.
Should been up by 6-8 goals at HT.
But 1 man down for nearly the whole game telling in the end.
They were just a little more efficient and smarter with the footy.
Big game next week.

OUT: Bailey (inj) Berry (having had an eye injury be cautious and rest him), Rayner (needs to get leather poisoning)
IN: Keaysy deserves a good run of games to see if he can cut it, and 2 others.
 

a mayes ing

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Just finished watching. A few thought l jotted down.
Martin was just terrible, him and Big O got monstered by Trengove. Would be happy if we dropped Martin for Archie tbh.
We aren't getting nearly enough from Big O either. We used to get the odd goal or 2 from him but nothing anymore except a bit of relief ruck. If that is all he i doing, then McStay can do that.

Too many players just do **** all. Rayner, Cameron and McCarthy were basically nonexistent. That is half of our forward line. Cameron is experienced enough yet too often he is getting completly nullified by someone.

Our goal kicking is just awful the last few weeks. Need to sort that out asap as our confidence will go down the drain along with the wins.

O dont know if we were too big but they were running a lot more.

Didn't like Fagan saying the big reason we our goal kicking was off was due to the wind, both teams were playing in it and they were more accurate.

Naughton after 20 games or so is already better than McStay, wish we had someone like him.
 
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The Good:
McCluggage:
Quarter 1 for McCluggage was simply superb. That was best player in the competition level of good IMO. Hopefully in the next couple of years we can see him consistently maintain that level over 4 quarters.
Hipwood: Been playing well recently. We desperately need him to convert his chances better, but I'm glad that we've moved past the stage of "we need him to get chances." Take the progress, he's still young for a key forward.
Forward Pressure: Tackles Inside 50 for Rayner, Cameron and McCarthy for Rounds 1 - 7 combined: 20. Tackles Inside 50 for Rayner, Cameron and McCarthy for Round 8: 10. In particular, McCarthy with 5. I thought McCarthy's game was acceptable, the other two really need to lift however. Getting the tackling right is good though. A lot of this came in the first half. If we can maintain that effort next week, without being down in rotations, I suspect a better result.
Honourable Mentions: Mitch, Zorko and Lyons. Lyons in particular I think seems to be thriving with the extra room when we don't run Mathieson too.

The Bad:
The Ruck Combo:
I understand the idea - to work the other ruck over with our combo, get us first hands on the ball and win clearances. It becomes a problem when we crush them in hitouts, but lose the clearance battle, however. We sacrifice mobility for this, and at least this game, that did not feel worth it.
The 2nd Quarter: Specifically, the second half of the second quarter. Disappointing, as really I think that's where the game was lost. We didn't have the legs at the end after being down a rotation for the whole game, and down a second rotation to seal the deal in the last quarter. Needed to make the first half count, and while we completely dominated it, we couldn't get the pressure onto the scoreboard.
The Small Forwards: 0 scores for Rayner, Cameron and McCarthy combined in that sort of game is not good enough. Rayner and Charlie looked completely lost that game. I think Fagan should honestly tell Charlie that he isn't allowed to try and take leaping marks for several games. I'm beginning to get frustrated at the amount of times everyone jumps and noone is there to crumb it. Get back to the basics for the smalls - tackling and crumbing. If we are going to praise McStay and Hipwood for playing the team role, we need the smalls to play their role in it too, and be ready when the two talls are bringing it to ground.

The Ugly:
Bailey:
Gotta feel bad for him. Hopefully it won't keep him out too long - his run and carry off half back is exactly what the team needs.
The Run: Can't read too much into this one guys. Being a rotation down right from the start is significant. Players looked lazy at times, but I think it's fair to say they would be stuffed with one less on the bench in that sort of game.
Our Lack of Ability to Shut Down the Corridor: Look at the team heat maps for this game. The bulldogs barely needed to spread to the line. Meanwhile we were being pushed right out wide. We seem to really suffer against the fast ball movement, and I'm hoping we can sort the strategy out for this.
 

Clarkythelion

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Cutler is a concern to me. He does some useful things and he certainly has some skill but in his role it has to be much more active defensively as well as in attack. I watched him closely today within the limits of the TV telecast. We just need a player who can play that manic roaming role up and back, cutting off ball, tackling to cause turnovers, gut running to be an option going forward, bobbing up where ever he is needed. I am not sure Cutler has enough of that in his game often enough.

Don’t get me wrong, he is a good footballer.
And having said all that I hope Cutler keeps learning and developing. At some point he could be the cream on top of the cake. I’m just not entirely sure we have the luxury of cream on our cake at the moment. But I am not sure who could come in to replace him. Guys like Squizzy and Basti offer other talents but not necessarily more all round than Cutler. Allison might be an option but with arguably a more modest skill set than Cutler.

The one I would probably like to see play some time to develop in that role in NEAFL is Coleman - good defensively, works hard both ways, dangerous going forward, great reflexes, quick and instinctive, runs all day, a solid kick and good awareness. If he can show something in such a role and assuming we draft him, I think he would have a future.
Agree with you, the younger Berry is that sort of player and seems a great runner as well as tough his tackles really hurt
 
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Well that was …. fun.

I shall refrain completely and utterly from even mentioning the umpires … mainly because I left my effigy kit at home and that seems to be the only reasonable option there.

I liked the pressure we started and ended with - I am not sure why it can't be at least partially on at all times. Run when you feel like it and everything is going well for sure but dig deep and run when you don't feel like it and everything seems to be going to fecal matter and you will not only develop some professional and person character but you will also enhance the chances of things turning your own way. The footy gods tend not to bless the lazy and self centred.

I don't remember (there may have been one or two occasions but they have slipped from my memory) us hitting up someone in the forward 50 - we seemed to be specialising in a weird combination of kick the ball in long and high to a contest (sometimes to our advantage but that seems optional) and a complete dearth of crumbers anywhere near said contest. I may be obtuse but if I was a small forward, on a slippery night, when it is raining footballs on the heads of my tall timbered teammates … wouldn't my hunger for goals and relevance be best slaked by stalking the vicinity of said contests to collect the crumbs that fall so regularly from the botched mark table? Would that not also have the delightful side effect of making my own opposite number have to spend at least a portion of their focus on what I am doing rather than on planning their own red carpeted escape from the forward arc in which I dwell?
Our forward line was too tall for the conditions. We did not have any crummers. Our backline is a major concern - our points against is telling us that. McStay is a better player in the backline. Our selectors got it wrong and need to drop players who are not performing. It should not matter who they are. We have passengers week after week and selectors need to be ruthless. That's why Clarkson is a great coach , he is ruthless when he needs to be.
 

Lions Flag 2020

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My thoughts on the game. I think we lost this one at the selection table. On a wet day we went in way too tall. The game against Sydney last week and last year in the wet highlighted this. Poor Big O has no chance in the wet. Unfortunately Fages was caught between a rock and hard place. Not make too many changes to a winning team but select a team to meet conditions. I think hippy and mcstay are agile enough to play in the wet. At this stage Rayner doesn't suit his forward role in the wet also. Not his fault, just the way it is.

No doubt losing bailey exposed our too tall issue more.

As a positive, I saw the future in the first quarter and a half. Clugga tearing the game up with his class, Berrys hard running both ways and Harris completely shutting down the oppositions best forward.

I think we have a real show this week against Adelaide as they are not a fast team and are playing quite a dour style. If we can match them with contested possession we might be able to get them on the outside.
 

Clarkythelion

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I feel it was a game we lost rather than the Doggies won. Our best on the day was good enough to win comfortably but with injuries and 2 or 3 players having off days our overall team effort wasn't there and our starts just ran out of puff. I was left with the feeling that if we all had a good day on the same day then we are a finals sidebar having 3 players not really in the game, 1 injured early and another in the 3rd term we were basically 5 players down on a team effort. The late change with Harris and McStay swapping to try to get a lift I though might be an indication of a growing frustration with our forward line although it was tough conditions.
 

Gibbo_88

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Interesting hearing what Witho had to say post match. Sounds like a few weren't playing their role and pretty much said that when we were going down the wing that not enough players were getting to the marking contest in support.

Beveridge seemed to think that his players were slipping over early and fumbling the ball and that's how we got a lead - think it was more the lions pressure was up with our tackles inside 50 and should have been another 2-3 goals up at half time. Two of their first quarter goals were very lucky but that can happen when we lock the ball in our attacking 50 and suddenly there is a lot of space for the dogs to kick to.
Fagan said he didn't think we handled the conditions well and questioned the boots that the players had on - Using the conditions is an excuse and he didn't seem too critical of a team that was very hot and cold with their pressure. Thought there was an equal amount of slipping over from both teams

It feels like we've got away from some real criticism with a few players having a dominating quarter which changes the game and has got us the win this season. Have a feeling we'll be exposed for relying on a few players talent instead of a hard working team over the next 2-3 weeks.
 
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Commiserations Lions, Hippy uncharacteristically not kicking straight was a lucky break for us. It’s a tricky stadium Mars, we are only just getting used to it. You have a fantastic team bulging with incredible, but young talent, and sustained success is just around the corner.
 
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Commiserations Lions, Hippy uncharacteristically not kicking straight was a lucky break for us. It’s a tricky stadium Mars, we are only just getting used to it. You have a fantastic team bulging with incredible, but young talent, and sustained success is just around the corner.
Not so uncharacteristic for Hippy unfortunately!
 

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jackess

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IIRC we didn’t even get to train on the oval because of the rain which probably contributed to our poor goal clicking although it mainly was just Hipwood.
 

martinson

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I guess everyone wants to look at changes but the fact remains that we played well enough to win that match with quite a few things going against us,including unfamiliarity with the oval

It's hard to judge just how good possible replacements are due to the standard in the NEAFL . Frustration is building with our small forwards , Charlie is not the same player he was last year but my feeling is that we tinker with the set up and give it another try. Already 2 likely outs.
 

martinson

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I've liked the two ruck set up but obviously it wasn't the right move yesterday and Oscar seems to have lost form . Stef's skillset was also shown up in yesterday's conditions . I guess Oscar is under pressure to hold his spot ,overall Stef is our best bet in the ruck by a fair way ,for what he lacks he makes up for it with competitiveness and effort.
 

Gadzorks

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A lot of our players were slipp
I guess everyone wants to look at changes but the fact remains that we played well enough to win that match with quite a few things going against us,including unfamiliarity with the oval

It's hard to judge just how good possible replacements are due to the standard in the NEAFL . Frustration is building with our small forwards , Charlie is not the same player he was last year but my feeling is that we tinker with the set up and give it another try. Already 2 likely outs.
Charlie is trying way too hard and overthinking every goal as he is trying to be Eddie. We’ve all seen the kids who do this and it actually inhibits them from simple reacting to the actual current circumstances in the game.

I believe he is capable of being Eddie when he relaxes into the rhythm of games.
 

jackess

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I guess everyone wants to look at changes but the fact remains that we played well enough to win that match with quite a few things going against us,including unfamiliarity with the oval

It's hard to judge just how good possible replacements are due to the standard in the NEAFL . Frustration is building with our small forwards , Charlie is not the same player he was last year but my feeling is that we tinker with the set up and give it another try. Already 2 likely outs.
I don’t get this. I think Charlie has been better than last year it’s just his goal kicking was freakishly good for those 10 games when over his career he’s more 50/50. He had 21 scoring shots in 10 games last year and has had 25 in 8 games this year (in a higher scoring team).

This is just how good he is. He’s not a 50 goal a season small forward
 

martinson

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I don’t get this. I think Charlie has been better than last year it’s just his goal kicking was freakishly good for those 10 games when over his career he’s more 50/50. He had 21 scoring shots in 10 games last year and has had 25 in 8 games this year (in a higher scoring team).

This is just how good he is. He’s not a 50 goal a season small forward
Yeah accept that ,but he doesn't seem to be making contests or running and turning with the same freedom he did last year don't you think ? His work rate up the ground seemed a lot better . Or maybe teams have worked him out a bit. Some of his goals this year have come at the end when games were iced.

I think it's self evident that he's not impacting as we expected , maybe aspirations were way too high , and maybe he's not fully recovered from that foot injury , or maybe as you say he is what he is.
 

Tassie4ever

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Those hoping for salvation via the NEAFL can stand down. No-one stands out although there are a number of likely long-term options. Repeat- long term. Archie is not among them, unfortunately. Years along now, he simply doesn't demonstrate the footy smarts, and TBH even yesterday when we won by a street, he was by no means a standout.

I have been saying for it seems like years now that we have a ruck problem. Simply put, we're gunna need a bigger ruckman. Stef is still serviceable, and puts in the odd good one, but he doesn't have either the hand or foot skills, and rarely clunks the big pill. When, like yesterday, he puts in a poor one, we start way behind the 8 ball. And it's where the action is. We can't always count on Neale's superlative skills.

I think we may have gotten a bit previous here. As Leigh would probably say, we are nowhere near as good as we think we are, and nowhere near as bad. Finals, when we are up against it tough, forget it.

Final point-find a way to promote Coleman. Bend the rules even- like Eddie would.
 
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jackess

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Those hoping for salvation via the NEAFL can stand down. No-one stands out although there are a number of likely long-term options. Repeat- long term. Archie is not among them, unfortunately. Years along now, he simply doesn't demonstrate the footy smarts, and TBH even yesterday when we won by a street, he was by no means a standout.

I have been saying for it seems like years now that we have a ruck problem. Simply put, we're gunna need a bigger ruckman. Stef is still serviceable, and puts in the odd good one, but he doesn't have either the hand or foot skills, and rarely clunks the big pill. When, like yesterday, he puts in a poor one, we start way behind the 8 ball. And it's where the action is. We can't always count on Neale's superlative skills.

I think we may have gotten a bit previous here. As Leigh would probably say, we are nowhere near as good as we think we are, and nowhere near as bad. Finals, when we are up against it tough, forget it.

Final point-find a way to promote Coleman. Bend the rules even- like Eddie would.
Just to repeat. Stef is our second best clearance player. I don’t think people appreciate how much of a loss he’d be. Also, look at the huge game from Grundy yesterday. We never have an opposition ruck dominate us like that. Stef is always a headache for other rucks.

Oscar somehow got a good reputation amongst us on here as a good tap ruckman but he gets beaten way too often. Needs to halve more ruck contests.
 

Football Pope

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The Ugly:.
The Run: Can't read too much into this one guys. Being a rotation down right from the start is significant. Players looked lazy at times, but I think it's fair to say they would be stuffed with one less on the bench in that sort of game.
Our Lack of Ability to Shut Down the Corridor: Look at the team heat maps for this game. The bulldogs barely needed to spread to the line. Meanwhile we were being pushed right out wide. We seem to really suffer against the fast ball movement, and I'm hoping we can sort the strategy out for this.
It's a good point and relates to getting to position quickly..(speed). The games lost this season have been due to our inability to shut down the corridor. We do spread wide and when the opposition switch happens..we're either too far back or still on the outer lacking the urgency to cover...leaving the centre opened...good night nurse.. Last season we played through the corridor almost every play...this year we have done a complete 180 and playing out wide then switching...
 
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