Autopsy Round 9, 2024: Hawthorn v St.Kilda

[Ads734]

This is really important
When many are whingeing about Lyons game plan ….no one mentions the breathtaking lack of footy IQ our players have. This happens weekly - multiple rush to ya ole leaving an oppo players outside to receive a handball and they clear. It’s just dumb - zero to do with game plan. It’s like fumbles …dropped chest marks …backward handballs …can’t kick to advantage….none of that is game plan….thats sub standard footballers. Many of them are our “leaders”
Someone asked earlier why Lyon persisted with Hastie …..why do you reckon ????
He knows this list has gaping holes and he has to play kids …no quick fix here let’s stop pretending game plan tweaks gonna turn us into Sydney …..we lack class
Pray sone of our kids aren’t tainted by the older rotten core…

How about when Marshall kick it from the goal line to the hawthorn player. It was just so typical.

 

[stfan]

If your looking at guys going backwards have to look at guys going forwards too

Imo-

Battle
Windhager
Henry (although limited exposure)
Hill (arguably)
NAS imo has gotten better

Battle was good last year. So was Hill.

Nas started this year poorly as was tagged out of games. Wilkie back in form now, but had some poor ones.

Henry has played all games and is back after a huge lay off.

Players being out for long periods and coming back rusty has been an ongoing problem for us.

IE Took Sincs a while to get going. King never has. Henry this week. Dow and Clark now trying to find form.

For much of this season selection was mainly which players were fit and then throw in a few extra kids to make the 23.


It is only about now that our selectors are starting to get some actual choices. But underdone players are still being brought in by necessity.

 

[littlecreatures]

If your looking at guys going backwards have to look at guys going forwards too

Imo-

Battle
Windhager
Henry (although limited exposure)
Hill (arguably)
NAS imo has gotten better

To add further context, the reality is that the following have also played career best footy under Ross. Not disputing he has some work to do, but think he needs some slack cut here. It’s also easy to apply a bit of recency bias when we’re sitting 3-6.

• Marshall
• Wilkie
• Higgins
• Mason Wood
• Stocker

 

[Teflon]

How about when Marshall kick it from the goal line to the hawthorn player. It was just so typical.

Apparently game plan
Bonner 17 turnovers against Dons - game plan
Seb Ross Hail Mary bombs forward- game plan
Brad Hill who tackles like butter - game plan
Jimmy Webster …30 secs to go …telegraphs to the United Nations “I’m about to handball back to Darcy Wilson for the ole 1-2 …game plan.
Dumb players who under heat fold
Gotta turn em over ….and get a forward coach …who possibly understands forwards structures ..

 

[PJays]

To add further context, the reality is that the following have also played career best footy under Ross. Not disputing he has some work to do, but think he needs some slack cut here. It’s also easy to apply a bit of recency bias when we’re sitting 3-6.

• Marshall
• Wilkie
• Higgins
• Mason Wood
• Stocker

Marshall returned to his best, ala 2019 Marshall, but I think that was more to do with Ryder's retirement and his return to sole rucking.

Mason Wood is a classic Lyon style player.

Players do better under different coaches. There's some in the other direction. Gresham was one of our brightest stars a few years back, but struggled last year.

The biggest test for Lyon in my mind is whether King unleashes his potential. King's the one guy at St Kilda who, unequivocally, undoubtedly, has the ability to become an elite superstar. And right now he's in the worst form slump of his career. It's worrying me.

 

[littlecreatures]

Marshall returned to his best, ala 2019 Marshall, but I think that was more to do with Ryder's retirement and his return to sole rucking.

Mason Wood is a classic Lyon style player.

Players do better under different coaches. There's some in the other direction. Gresham was one of our brightest stars a few years back, but struggled last year.

The biggest test for Lyon in my mind is whether King unleashes his potential. King's the one guy at St Kilda who, unequivocally, undoubtedly, has the ability to become an elite superstar. And right now he's in the worst form slump of his career. It's worrying me.

IMO, Marshall played his best season of footy last year and was unlucky not to be AA.

 

[PJays]

IMO, Marshall played his best season of footy last year and was unlucky not to be AA.

Marginally better than 2019, yeah.

But he was primetime last year, 27 years of age, and prime opportunity with Ryder gone. I'm just not sure how much credit Lyon should get.

I'll judge Lyon by whether King becomes the superstar he looked destined to be when Lyon walked in the door (52 goals and 48 contested marks in 2022) and how the other kids develop

 

[littlecreatures]

Marginally better than 2019, yeah.

But he was primetime last year, 27 years of age, and prime opportunity with Ryder gone. I'm just not sure how much credit Lyon should get.

I'll judge Lyon by whether King becomes the superstar he looked destined to be when Lyon walked in the door (52 goals and 48 contested marks in 2022) and how the other kids develop

Judge him however you see fit, I’m just responding to the previous comments as to the number of players who have played career best footy under Lyon, Ro being one of them.

 

[PJays]

Judge him however you see fit, I’m just responding to the previous comments as to the number of players who have played career best footy under Lyon, Ro being one of them.

Yeah, I guess I'm just saying it's pretty pointless conversation with some players because you expect natural improvements (NWM- 3rd year player) and natural declines (Membrey, Ross being ~30) etc.

Marshall's influence was being reduced by sharing ruck duties with Ryder. His career year in 2023 came as no surprise.

Mason Wood I'll pay, because he was a career journeyman and fringe player who's become a quality contributor under Lyon.

 

[stfan]

Marshall returned to his best, ala 2019 Marshall, but I think that was more to do with Ryder's retirement and his return to sole rucking.

Mason Wood is a classic Lyon style player.

Players do better under different coaches. There's some in the other direction. Gresham was one of our brightest stars a few years back, but struggled last year.

The biggest test for Lyon in my mind is whether King unleashes his potential. King's the one guy at St Kilda who, unequivocally, undoubtedly, has the ability to become an elite superstar. And right now he's in the worst form slump of his career. It's worrying me.

King has also been in and out of the team like a yoyo with injury and suspension.

He looked good early this season when he pushed up to the wings. Not sure why is he staying home at ff. Is it gamelan, or is more his knee is stopping him from running too much ?

 

[Diehard Saint]

And Ben Long got picked for GC too!
14 possies! Not bad.

So we have Gresham, Acres, Bytel, Nick Hind and Long, to name a/the? few, playing in teams above us this week.

Acres is the only one I would like to have back.

 

[TheJackal]

Seems we got pinged with a couple of 50s this weekend for actions that happen literally a dozen times a game.

Tonight I remembered that we can watch players possessions on the AFL app. There was a moment in the last that wasn't really mentioned by anyone when Steele was lining up for goal, I thought I'd rewatch it.

I think the rule isn't great but the 'stand rule' still exists right? I'm referring to Jack Steele

9

Jack Steele

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

8.7

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

6.8

5star

CL

3.6

5star

D

21.3

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

16.8

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

11.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

6.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

, 12:52 mark of the last quarter. With my interpretation of that rule, that's a 50m penalty every day of the week isn't it?

Don't get me wrong, we got the result we deserved so I'm not blaming anyone but ourselves. It just seems we really don't get those contentious calls, almost ever.

 

[littlecreatures]

Yeah, I guess I'm just saying it's pretty pointless conversation with some players because you expect natural improvements (NWM- 3rd year player) and natural declines (Membrey, Ross being ~30) etc.

Marshall's influence was being reduced by sharing ruck duties with Ryder. His career year in 2023 came as no surprise.

Mason Wood I'll pay, because he was a career journeyman and fringe player who's become a quality contributor under Lyon.

lol, you could apply this thinking and reasoning to the full cohort of AFL players, irregardless as to whether they’re coached by Lyon or not, so I don’t quite get your point.

 

[malevu]

We might not be winning the flag, but we'd sure as hell be scoring more goals and playing a more aesthetically pleasing brand of football.

It's torturous watching us.

I'm not an RTB fan boy but seriously people need to focus on the real issue. We have all our tall forwards available unlike last year. King, Membrey, Sharman, Caminiti, Hayes. Marshall can be thrown in to help if needed. Admittedly, our small forward stocks are depleted but Owens and Phillipou are available and Henry is back. Our inside 50 entries (nos.) are usually decent.

We should be putting the acid on the players themselves if you're wondering why we're struggling io kick 10 goals. Collectively the forward line is hopelessly out of form, not aided by poor delivery from our mids. Add the usual crap conversion to the mix and that's the real reason right there.

Lyon can't go out and do the job for them. Time they owned their own below standard performances.

 

[gringo2011]

Geezus mate you jump off abd on quick
Find a path mate ffs

I’m a meandering type. Staying in one lane is dull.

 

[PJays]

I'm not an RTB fan boy but seriously people need to focus on the real issue.

If King was playing to his potential we'd be top 4.

Seriously.

We keep kicking 9 or 10 goals, not kicking straight, and losing close games.

If King was grabbing a few extra marks and kicking 3 or 4 a game, we would've won most of those.

 

[SG34]

Acres is the only one I would like to have back.

Yeah, me too.

But Hind would have been handy with Butler down

 

[austinnn]

Our leaders need to be recast. Forget the nice guy voting method. Pick players guaranteed to have a crack, regardless of circumstances, players that won't wilt in the heat.

Wilkie
Battle
Windy
Wood
Stocker

Need more leadership up front, but until one of our forwards grows a pair we'll have to do with the above.

King needs to claim his throne soon. We need a presence there that makes the oppo shit themselves. He has the potential to devestate but its being wasted. Priority number 2.

Priority number 1 is sort the bloody mids out.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Seems we got pinged with a couple of 50s this weekend for actions that happen literally a dozen times a game.

Tonight I remembered that we can watch players possessions on the AFL app. There was a moment in the last that wasn't really mentioned by anyone when Steele was lining up for goal, I thought I'd rewatch it.

I think the rule isn't great but the 'stand rule' still exists right? I'm referring to Jack Steele, 12:52 mark of the last quarter. With my interpretation of that rule, that's a 50m penalty every day of the week isn't it?

Don't get me wrong, we got the result we deserved so I'm not blaming anyone but ourselves. It just seems we really don't get those contentious calls, almost ever.

The downfield free to them in the last quarter was a shocker

Pressured and bumped fairly as the Hawks player kicks it ....wasn't late

And where the ball went we had players and looked like setting up through the middle

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Have this nagging feeling this game will elict a response .... 5 games now before the bye

Need to win 4 ... Dees at the G and Brions away the hardest .... though the all look tough at the moment

Need to play our best experienced side going forward ..... the first year players have had enough of a taste for the time being

 

[Saintbloke]

Marshall returned to his best, ala 2019 Marshall, but I think that was more to do with Ryder's retirement and his return to sole rucking.

Mason Wood is a classic Lyon style player.

Players do better under different coaches. There's some in the other direction. Gresham was one of our brightest stars a few years back, but struggled last year.

The biggest test for Lyon in my mind is whether King unleashes his potential. King's the one guy at St Kilda who, unequivocally, undoubtedly, has the ability to become an elite superstar. And right now he's in the worst form slump of his career. It's worrying me.

King will never be a superstar- if he has an injury-free run, he can be one of the better tall forwards in the league, though we don't need be revolving our success around how King goes- it's a team game and he is just part of the team that needs to do better.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

We missed a trick in this game with Adelaide and Brisbane playing out a draw. Would've gone past both of them.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

 

[Start Again]

King will never be a superstar- if he has an injury-free run, he can be one of the better tall forwards in the league, though we don't need be revolving our success around how King goes- it's a team game and he is just part of the team that needs to do better.

Someone who speaks the truth

 

[pebblesofsand]

And Ben Long got picked for GC too!
14 possies! Not bad.

So we have Gresham, Acres, Bytel, Nick Hind and Long, to name a/the? few, playing in teams above us this week.

So?

The only reason any of them would have got a game in our side on Saturday was if someone was injured.

 

[gringo2011]

The downfield free to them in the last quarter was a shocker

Pressured and bumped fairly as the Hawks player kicks it ....wasn't late

And where the ball went we had players and looked like setting up through the middle

The worst decision was when Meek two handed pushed Howard in the back and the mark stood for a kick on goal. Then got another one the same way. A smarter footy team would have told Max King to do it because it was allowed in that match. We are slow to adjust to exploitable elements.