Current Royal Commission into Lawyer X gangland convictions on tainted evidence & police corruption

[Kurve]

a conflict of who's interest?

I suspect you know the answer to that.

 

[Cactus_]

Con Heliotis represented Tony Mokbel for a long time. This transcript (pay attention) contains some interesting snippets and background on how Tony was dragged into the murder business ... because it was not his style.

https://www.foleys.com.au/content/Oral_History/Con_Heliotis_QC_interview_transcript_final.pdf

Good read. Enjoyed the snippets. Also enjoyed Grollo weightloss competition. Lawyers always have great anecdotes. I could read that stuff all day.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

Absolutely diabolical that nobody in Vic Pol thought to put a stop to this. Drug prices to decrease when Victoria becomes flooded in 18 months.

 

[Cactus_]

Informant previously received $2.88 million in compensation by Victoria Police. Now is asking for more money.

There were a total of 386 people arrested and charged that I am specifically aware of based upon information I provided to Victoria Police but there are probably more because as you would know, I did not always know the value or use of some of the intelligence that I was providing. There was over $60 million in property and assets seized/restrained based upon my assistance and intelligence (a fact reported in The Age in an article about the results obtained by Purana in decimating the gangland criminals in 2009).

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ter-became-informer-3838-20181203-p50jug.html

She’s not going to have many friends left at this rate.

 

[Melsy]

She’s not going to have many friends left at this rate.

Sounds like shes going to need it

 

[Melsy]

Absolutely diabolical that nobody in Vic Pol thought to put a stop to this. Drug prices to decrease when Victoria becomes flooded in 18 months.

I think it will turn out not to be what has been interpreted, and what has happened is within the law. It seems odd that an entire police force put at risk some of the most dangerous criminals.
We get proposed appeals every week. Even if an appeal is granted, doesn't mean its a winner. You see that in the media too. But most the appeals are never granted let alone won.

But you are never told that. It doesn't sell newspapers.

 

[Opine]

I think it will turn out not to be what has been interpreted, and what has happened is within the law. It seems odd that an entire police force put at risk some of the most dangerous criminals.
We get proposed appeals every week. Even if an appeal is granted, doesn't mean its a winner. You see that in the media too. But most the appeals are never granted let alone won.

Justice must not only be done, it must appear to be done

 

[Kurve]

I think it will turn out not to be what has been interpreted, and what has happened is within the law. It seems odd that an entire police force put at risk some of the most dangerous criminals.
We get proposed appeals every week. Even if an appeal is granted, doesn't mean its a winner. You see that in the media too. But most the appeals are never granted let alone won.

But you are never told that. It doesn't sell newspapers.

Not in my opinion. This is from the High Court, heads will roll and prisoners will walk.

At 9:00am (AEDT), suppression orders were lifted on a case decided in the High Court last month involving Victoria Police and the lawyer who represented numerous gangland figures, against the Victorian Director of Public Prosecutions.

The High Court judgement condemned Victorian police saying they were guilty of "reprehensible conduct" in encouraging the barrister to give up information about the accused and were involved in sanctioning "atrocious breaches of the sworn duty of every police officer".

"As a result, the prosecution of each convicted person was corrupted in a manner which debased fundamental premises of the criminal justice system," the court said.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12...ice-misdeeds-tony-mokbel-convictions/10576156

 

[Melsy]

Based on my media bullshit storm in a teacup theory, 2 out of a 100 people will win appeals, if any.

 

[Kurve]

Based on my media bullshit storm in a teacup theory, 2 out of a 100 people will win appeals, if any.

You won't hear about most of them getting out, only the higher profile ones. It's not a media bullshit storm although prior to today, many journos were just guessing imo and I didnt even want to post their rubbish but today is a different story.

 

[Opine]

Not in my opinion. This is from the High Court, heads will roll and prisoners will walk.

At 9:00am (AEDT), suppression orders were lifted on a case decided in the High Court last month involving Victoria Police and the lawyer who represented numerous gangland figures, against the Victorian Director of Public Prosecutions.

The High Court judgement condemned Victorian police saying they were guilty of "reprehensible conduct" in encouraging the barrister to give up information about the accused and were involved in sanctioning "atrocious breaches of the sworn duty of every police officer".

"As a result, the prosecution of each convicted person was corrupted in a manner which debased fundamental premises of the criminal justice system," the court said.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12...ice-misdeeds-tony-mokbel-convictions/10576156

I disagree, the issue of whether heads will roll is one thing, the issue of reprehensible behaviour on the part of Vic Pol is another, and the issue of whether convictions will be overturned is yet another.

 

[GreyCrow]

3. Did the conviction ONLY come from the information provided?


If the conviction came from evidentiary value then play on and stay inside.

If a plea was entered on the advice of the informer how can you prove that?

 

[Opine]

I suspect you know the answer to that.

I disagree with you on this.
Where privilege is concerned, the only conflict of interest is the public interest.
What your alluding to is not a question of conflict of interest, but rather a question of whether rules of evidence relating to privilege have been breached, or whether common law privilege has been breached.
This has nothing to do with conflict of interest.

 

[Opine]

3. Did the conviction ONLY come from the information provided?

That is the most pertinent question

 

[Kurve]

I disagree with you on this.
Where privilege is concerned, the only conflict of interest is the public interest.
What your alluding to is not a question of conflict of interest, but rather a question of whether rules of evidence relating to privilege have been breached, or whether common law privilege has been breached.
This has nothing to do with conflict of interest.

Let's wait until we see the terms of reference for this Royal Commission and whether this lawyer's conflict of interest will be examined. I think it will.

 

[Opine]

Let's wait until we see the terms of reference for this Royal Commission and whether this lawyer's conflict of interest will be examined. I think it will.

I understand what your saying, and I agree in part.
But if I'm not mistaken, even if it relates to a breach of the conduct rules, those rules don't provide a basis of an action as between anyone other than the practitioner and the Board. That's why I think it will primarily get down to what GreyCrow said above.

 

[Kurve]

3. Did the conviction ONLY come from the information provided?


If the conviction came from evidentiary value then play on and stay inside.

If a plea was entered on the advice of the informer how can you prove that?

Fruit of the poison tree springs to mind but in her own words, the informant lays claim to actually counselling clients she was spying on into taking deals. I can't get into the article now but it's in here somewhere ...

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ter-became-informer-3838-20181203-p50jug.html

 

[GreyCrow]

Fruit of the poison tree springs to mind but in her own words, the informant lays claim to actually counselling clients she was spying on into taking deals. I can't get into that article but it's in here somewhere ...

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ter-became-informer-3838-20181203-p50jug.html

Sure and thats possible but hard to prove. I dont think she was playing a long game ie ' hey take this deal and in a few years I'll help you out'

It seems the informer may be a greedy conniving person that feels they deserve a bit more of the reward money and is using this as a convenient FU

 

[Kurve]

Sure and thats possible but hard to prove. I dont think she was playing a long game ie ' hey take this deal and in a few years I'll help you out'

It seems the informer may be a greedy conniving person that feels they deserve a bit more of the reward money and is using this as a convenient FU

Ooooooh Mr Crow I think you might want to read that article. From memory, she admits to manipulating her clients into prison terms and takes full credit for it. I'll try and get a complete copy of it.

 

[GreyCrow]

Ooooooh Mr Crow I think you might want to read that article. From memory, she admits to manipulating her clients into prison terms and takes full credit for it. I'll try and get a complete copy of it.

I meant that just her saying it doesnt make it true.

 

[Kurve]

I meant that just her saying it doesnt make it true.

Her clients might back her up there ... hang on ... not the cops, I meant the incarcerated.

 

[Kurve]

I'm really glad some lawyerly posters have popped in though, we're going to need you all to sort this out.

 

[Hamingja]

Hmmm female lawyer that represented underworld identities. I wonder who that could possibly be......and I didn't follow this much at all at the time.

 

[petedavo]

A facebook post from one of my FB friends, John Silvester, about an article he has written for The Age»

The article to which it refers»
The day Informer 3838 leapt for joy https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/the-day-informer-3838-leapt-for-joy-20181203-p50jxi.html via theage

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[petedavo]

A facebook post from one of my FB friends, John Silvester, about an article he has written for The Age»

The article to which it refers»
The day Informer 3838 leapt for joy https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/the-day-informer-3838-leapt-for-joy-20181203-p50jxi.html via theage

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

"She certainly told police she was providing information because she felt guilty over her behaviour, particularly by telling members of the underworld that one of her clients, Terence Hodson, was a police informer.

Hodson and his wife, Christine, were murdered in their Kew home in 2004 to stop him giving evidence."



Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk