Royce Hart [2004 Thread]

[BalmyArmy]

Did anyone hear about Garry Lyon saying Royce Hart was not a champion this morning on SEN? My mate told me and I was appalled. How could anyone not think Royce was a champion?

 

[Coach Required]

Well for starters you are talking about Garry Lyon, he thinks he was the best player to ever grace the field.

memo to Garry: You werent a champion, just a decent player.

 

[sethlad]

KB was very quick to jump in & declare that not only was he a champion,he was clearly the best CHF the game has ever seen.

I was very young but my memories are still strong of Hart.

The gameplan was "Long to Royce",he was rarely beaten 1 on 1 & took pack marks regularly.Very different position to the CHF's of today.

Seth.

 

[mellowyellow]

Originally posted by BalmyArmy
Did anyone hear about Garry Lyon saying Royce Hart was not a champion this morning on SEN?

I only caught part of that but i thought he was only arguing who was the better CHF... Hart or Carey.

 

[TheFoxhat]

Royce is far better that Bloody Carey....

 

[cairo tiger]

2 different players. royce was majestic carey a bullocking type

 

[evo]

lol @ Gary Lyon

Royce Hart was awarded CHF,the hardest spot on the field, in the team of the Century.

Hart is the best player i've seen play for Richmond by a mile.

 

[oxx]

Originally posted by BalmyArmy
Did anyone hear about Garry Lyon saying Royce Hart was not a champion this morning on SEN? My mate told me and I was appalled. How could anyone not think Royce was a champion?

Yeah Balmy.

I wanted to kill the guy.

Not for showing his ignorance but for thinking he is even worthyof commenting on the great man.

Waht a tosser u r lyon !

The way he carries on as coach of the all Aussie team it's no
wonder he didn't get a coaching job.
What an ego.
What a loser.

ps. Agree whole heartedly Coach Required.

 

[Captain Sensible]

I detest Richmond as a football club and Hart almost coached my team to oblivion in the early '80s.



But I will say one thing Royce Hart is easily the greatest player I have ever seen. Better than Carey by so far it isnt funny-Carey was good but he wasnt fit to clean Harts boots.



How many times would Gary Lyon have seen Hart play anyway? Never I'm guessing.

 

[kretchy]

Tony Greenberg continues the debate on richmondfc.com.au.


Why you can't by-pass Hart
10:50:19 AM Thu 19 February, 2004
Tony Greenberg
richmondfc.com.au
Royce Hart or Wayne Carey . . . who is the greatest centre half-forward of all time?

That old ‘chestnut’ has surfaced again, courtesy of a lively early morning discussion late last week on new Melbourne all-sport radio station SEN.


The ‘Morning Glory’ breakfast team of Garry Lyon, Tim Watson and Billy Brownless, along with regular guest, Tim Lane, were assessing the true champion status of a wide range of AFL players, past and present, when the attention turned to Hart v Carey.

Not surprisingly, there was a flood of phone calls from those Richmond supporters fortunate enough to have watched the great Royce Desmond Hart in action from 1967-77. They strongly pushed the case for the famous Tiger No. 4 to be acclaimed as the No. 1 centre half-forward in league football history.

So, too, did Royce’s talented little teammate of those Yellow and Black glory years under Tommy Hafey’s coaching guidance – Kevin Bartlett, who these days is a respected sports broadcaster in Melbourne town, with a daily 9am-noon slot on SEN.

Such was the depth of feeling KB had on the Hart v Carey subject, that he couldn’t even wait to voice his opinion on his own show. He burst into the studio while the Morning Glory boys were getting stuck into the topic, to set them straight on exactly why Royce was the ‘King’ of centre half-forwards.

"He (Hart) was a better mark than Wayne Carey, better kick than Wayne Carey, faster than Wayne Carey, was a greater tackler than Wayne Carey," Bartlett said.

"He had it a lot tougher than Wayne Carey, trying to mark against big packs of players with guys going back and kicking over the man on the mark . . . The ball wasn't moved as fast as it is these days into the forward line.

"Ruckmen in those days . . . blokes like Len Thompson, Graeme 'Jerker' Jenkin, 'Percy' Jones and John Nicholls, they'd be standing there in front of Royce Hart, and he'd have to climb over the top of them to take the mark.

"If Royce Hart took 10 marks in a game, they were 10 absolute 'beaut' marks -- contested marks. These days, they take 15 marks -- and 14 of them are on their chest by themselves . . .

"Look, Carey's a great player . . . a great champion -- but he's not as good as Royce Hart."

KB finished his ‘Hart-felt’ speech to Messrs Lyon, Watson, Brownless and Lane, then followed up the pro-Hart theme on his own 'Hungry For Sport' program by interviewing Tommy Hafey.

Tommy, of course, is an unabashed Royce fan. He spoke at length -- and in glowing terms -- of the man who played such a pivotal role in those four Tiger premierships that he coached.

With overwhelming support for Hart coming from Punt Road legends such as Bartlett and Hafey, he hardly needs the endorsement of an average Richmond fan like yours truly. But here goes anyway . . .

Royce Hart was my football idol when I was a kid. I had his number on the back of my Richmond jumper before he’d even played a senior game.

Therefore, I am quite biased (and proudly so) when it comes to making a judgment on Hart v Carey. Notwithstanding the fact I’ve endured several miserable days and nights at the footy when the Tigers have been on the receiving end of a Carey blitz, the 'Wagga Wagga Wonderboy' runs a distant second to Royce in the centre half-forward stakes.

Sure, Carey (192cm, 97kg) had a distinct physical advantage over Hart (187cm, 85.5kg) but for sheer courage, skill, excitement and ability to perform when it mattered most, it’s impossible to go past ‘Roycey baby’ (as noted Channel Seven football commentator Mike Williamson was prone to call him).

Carey was, of course, a key figure in two Kangaroo premiership teams – Hart was a major source of inspiration for four Richmond premiership sides. Whereas Carey played centre half-forward more like a full-forward, not venturing too far out from goal, Hart played it more like a ruck-rover roaming far and wide for valuable possessions.

It’s amazing to think that Royce was actually the same size or smaller than current-day Tiger midfielders such as skipper Wayne Campbell, Joel Bowden, Greg Tivendale, Mark Coughlan, Justin Blumfield and Kane Johnson, yet he could outmark the biggest, strongest players in the competition back in his day.

And, he could mark the ball seemingly from any position – over the top of a pack (or hapless opponent), sweeping across the front of a pack or backing into a pack with astonishing bravery.

One of the most treasured possessions in my football video library is a Royce Hart highlights package, which I was lucky enough to get my hands on a couple of years ago. It runs for about 40 minutes, and captures all the brilliance of the boy from Clarence in Tasmania who crossed Bass Strait to become a Punt Road legend.

For my money, the highlight of a jam-packed highlights package is footage of Royce literally hurling himself backwards into an oncoming pack to take the gutsiest of gutsy, inspirational marks (which he naturally converted into a goal).

The video also captures Royce's exquisite ground play and ability to apply fierce pressure to opposition defenders when he didn't have the ball. Then, of course, there's his kicking for goal -- text-book, left-foot drop punts, which split the upright perpendiculars seemingly from any angle or distance.

It's well worth noting that Royce was among Richmond's best players in each of the five Grand Finals he played in (four wins, one loss). The marvellous Club history book, 'The Tigers Of Old', listed Hart's individual Grand Final stats as:

* 1967 -- 13 kicks, 7 marks, 6 handballs, 3 goals
* 1969 -- 14 kicks, 5 marks, 3 handballs, 1 goal
* 1972 -- 13 kicks, 4 marks, 5 handballs, 2 goals
* 1973 -- 16 kicks, 7 marks, 3 handballs, 3 goals
* 1974 -- 19 kicks, 5 marks, 4 handballs, 3 goals

All bias aside, I honestly can't remember a big occasion when Royce didn't produce that "something special" for the Tigers. He had an uncanny knack of lifting the Tiger team with an inspirational act of brilliance, just when it was needed.

In summary, Royce Hart is not only the greatest centre half-forward who ever graced a football field, he is the best player I've ever seen -- full stop.

 

[oxx]

C'mon the Mighty Tiges.

 

[julzqld]

Bet Royce Hart never had it off with his best mate's wife either.

 

[CJH]

Originally posted by julzqld
Bet Royce Hart never had it off with his best mate's wife either.

Touche!

 

[froars]

I heard that on SEN - Gary Lyon didn't think anyone was a champion though. He thought Silvagni was a champ, but not Royce. Gotta admit it was pretty early in the morning when they did this - maybe he hadn't completely woken up.

God, Royce Hart was the best player of his era - just ask him lol - he wrote a book at the age of 21 or something and when asked to name his best team ever he put himself at CHF. Didn't go down too well at the time lol.

Carey is as good as Royce IMHO - but different types of players. They both had the capacity to turn a game - Carey just with his physicality - Royce with just brilliant skill. Not only in the air, but he was so good onthe ground. As a junior he was a rover i believe, and just had great groundwork.

Both are champs and i couldn't separate them.

I still reckon Ablett beats both of them - sorry Royce, but Richmond supporters saw the best of Ablett on too many occasions - never seen anyone like him.

 

[sydney eagle]

I have never been a fan of Richmond but I always enjoyed watching Royce Hart play. The way he seemed to float across packs seemingly without any effort to take marks was marvellous to watch. It is however very difficult to compare players who are seperated by as great a period of time as Carey and Hart. My memory is hazy but didn't Royce have a number of duels with John McIntosh (Ashley's dad) when the latter played for St Kilda ?

 

[Bentleigh]

AFL Team of the Century

B: Bernie Smith (Geelong) Stephen Silvagni (Carlton) John Nicholls (Carlton)
HB: Bruce Doull (Carlton) Ted Whitten (Footscray) Kevin Murray (Fitzroy)
C: Keith Greig (North Melbourne) Ian Stewart (St Kilda, Richmond) Francis Bourke (Richmond)
HF: Alex Jesaulenko (Carlton, St Kilda) Royce Hart (Richmond) ******** Reynolds (Essendon)
F: Leigh Matthews (Hawthorn) John Coleman (Essendon) Haydn Bunton Senior (Fitzroy)
Foll: Graham Farmer (Geelong) Ron Barassi (Melbourne, Carlton) Bob Skilton (South Melbourne)
Int: Gary Ablett (Hawthorn, Geelong) Jack Dyer (Richmond) Greg Williams (Geelong, Sydney, Carlton)
Coach: Norm Smith


Im sure he was schit

 

[1980GFVideo]

Hasn't Gary Lyon come out of his shell

The bloke used to pre-empt every statement with "Im not saying"

Used to give big accolades to average players, being too scared to criticise.

Now he declares Hart not in the champion class??. The bloke is overrated as a footballer and media personality.

Typical Yeah-Nah type bloke who has been groomed in all the media techniques. You can tell he has taken lessons in speaking in a way to come across as professional.

I think Sheedy privately doesnt rate Lyon, often making a few digs here and there.

BTW - Hart did play the big stuff.

 

[True Thylacine]

I don't think it bears debate really. I am a Richmond obssessed Tasmanian, who lives 1 km from where he first pulled on footy boots and who say him play and who has had more than the odd coldie with him and his family. Wonder what my opinion will be? lol

Seriously though I agree with those who say he and Carey we different players, they certainly were. Carey was sensational also but in a different era and different style. It could be argued that the game was slower back then but that just means its was tougher to get a kick and less reliable delivery and less one on one duels. For mine Royce was much better at ground level than Carey although Carey was more "two sided" than Royce. Then again Royce didnt get the luxury of a "Royce's Paddock" either.

Greater brains than mine have decided he was CHF of the century so I am happy to leave it at that. I can assure you the man himself is in no doubt as froars pointed out...lmao

 

[smasha]

I only caught part of that but i thought he was only arguing who was the better CHF... Hart or Carey.

I hate that argument because Hart revolutionized the game at that position in an era 20 years earlier than Carey.Carey was a champion but Hart paved the way.

 

[smasha]

I heard that on SEN - Gary Lyon didn't think anyone was a champion though. He thought Silvagni was a champ, but not Royce. Gotta admit it was pretty early in the morning when they did this - maybe he hadn't completely woken up.

God, Royce Hart was the best player of his era - just ask him lol - he wrote a book at the age of 21 or something and when asked to name his best team ever he put himself at CHF. Didn't go down too well at the time lol.

Carey is as good as Royce IMHO - but different types of players. They both had the capacity to turn a game - Carey just with his physicality - Royce with just brilliant skill. Not only in the air, but he was so good onthe ground. As a junior he was a rover i believe, and just had great groundwork.

Both are champs and i couldn't separate them.

I still reckon Ablett beats both of them - sorry Royce, but Richmond supporters saw the best of Ablett on too many occasions - never seen anyone like him.

He said on the show Open Mike that for his book he was asked to list a team he would like to play with so he really wasn't being that arrogant.

 

[sante]

This thread brings back memories of some of the posters who have been MIA for years now...

 

[Groupie_]

Did anyone hear about Garry Lyon saying Royce Hart was not a champion this morning on SEN? My mate told me and I was appalled. How could anyone not think Royce was a champion?

How much Richmond hate would Lyon have to have inside himself to say that Royce wasn't a champion of the game?

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Great read - loved that Greenberg article!