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Ruckless

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Dec 10, 2003
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71,189
Newtown
AFL Club
Geelong
Forget Chambers Knee. He wont be missed. It must now be apparent that Geelongs Ruck division is constructed from players who are not capable of supporting the midfield division we are building. Who is our ruck division. In order
1,King
2, don’t have a real #2
3,Loats
4,Chambers
5,Mooney
6,Playfair
7,Blake
8,Smith

At least 25% haven’t played AFL footy, 25% are band-aids,12.5% are injury prone,12.5% are not up to it ,12.5% is vacant as we are missing a real back up and 12.5% of the division is left trying to support the whole club and if we are no careful we will add to the injury prone division making it 25.0%

It must now be strongly assessed when Blake will be up to playing (probably not till next year if Thompson follows form) and then contributing ( I think it wasn’t till about Kings 3rd season that he started to be an equal contributor)
If this is anywhere correct it means that the next 4 years King can only expect relieve
If his two main support players perform at a new level and prove previous assessment incorrect.!!

Loats - a player who was let go by his previous team because it was judged that he will most likely always struggle to put games together,He appears to have talent but I doubt he will ever play much more than 1 game in 2.Hes a player who really is somebody that is only up to being the 3rd ruckman

Chambers – a player, not through a lack of effort, has proved that he is simply not up it and has failed to step up when our two main men were down. I think this period has shown that there really isn’t a reason for keeping him as a back ruckman. His position on the list needs to be replace by somebody with more talent and more ability. He needs to be a bloke who can be considered as a serious alternative to help King a player with enough talent that could grow into out 2nd best ruckman if it pans out that way. A player who’s able to play in other positions and relieve him for 20-25 minutes when King is playing and step and carry us when he isn’t.

We must now get fair dinkum when trading at the end of the year and go for a player a player like Jason Laycock at Essendon and Hamish McIntosh at Kangaroos.These two were both were drafted 2002 and would be coming off their initial 2 year contract this year’s. Although not ready to been the main guy they would be a year a head of Blake so these guys would be ready to start playing some AFL footy next year( I think McIntosh might have played already) and both might give an added option up forward. It would be costly to get them as both are tall(Laycock at 198 and McIntosh at 201), both were first round picks(Laycock at 9 and McIntosh at 10)but as they are still in the early stages of development the cost might not be extreme.
Maybe somebody else has alternatives but I think we must be serious about bolstering this area if we want King to still be around and useful when we start kicking bums again in a couple of years.
 
Originally posted by Turbocat
Forget Chambers Knee. He wont be missed. It must now be apparent that Geelongs Ruck division is constructed from players who are not capable of supporting the midfield division we are building. Who is our ruck division. In order
1,King
2, don’t have a real #2
3,Loats
4,Chambers
5,Mooney
6,Playfair
7,Blake
8,Smith

At least 25% haven’t played AFL footy, 25% are band-aids,12.5% are injury prone,12.5% are not up to it ,12.5% is vacant as we are missing a real back up and 12.5% of the division is left trying to support the whole club and if we are no careful we will add to the injury prone division making it 25.0%

It must now be strongly assessed when Blake will be up to playing (probably not till next year if Thompson follows form) and then contributing ( I think it wasn’t till about Kings 3rd season that he started to be an equal contributor)
If this is anywhere correct it means that the next 4 years King can only expect relieve
If his two main support players perform at a new level and prove previous assessment incorrect.!!

Loats - a player who was let go by his previous team because it was judged that he will most likely always struggle to put games together,He appears to have talent but I doubt he will ever play much more than 1 game in 2.Hes a player who really is somebody that is only up to being the 3rd ruckman

Chambers – a player, not through a lack of effort, has proved that he is simply not up it and has failed to step up when our two main men were down. I think this period has shown that there really isn’t a reason for keeping him as a back ruckman. His position on the list needs to be replace by somebody with more talent and more ability. He needs to be a bloke who can be considered as a serious alternative to help King a player with enough talent that could grow into out 2nd best ruckman if it pans out that way. A player who’s able to play in other positions and relieve him for 20-25 minutes when King is playing and step and carry us when he isn’t.

We must now get fair dinkum when trading at the end of the year and go for a player a player like Jason Laycock at Essendon and Hamish McIntosh at Kangaroos.These two were both were drafted 2002 and would be coming off their initial 2 year contract this year’s. Although not ready to been the main guy they would be a year a head of Blake so these guys would be ready to start playing some AFL footy next year( I think McIntosh might have played already) and both might give an added option up forward. It would be costly to get them as both are tall(Laycock at 198 and McIntosh at 201), both were first round picks(Laycock at 9 and McIntosh at 10)but as they are still in the early stages of development the cost might not be extreme.
Maybe somebody else has alternatives but I think we must be serious about bolstering this area if we want King to still be around and useful when we start kicking bums again in a couple of years.

Your argument is that as of now we have no quality and decent back-up to King in the rucking stocks yet your solution is that we trade to get a young and raw ruckman/tall like McIntosh and Laycock. One would have thought that if a suitable rucking partner for King was needed, then we wouldn't draft a Laycock/McIntosh but instead go for a bloke that is senior ready, has experience and is a decent enough ruckman to pair with King until Blake comes good. Your argument is fair, your solution however, is not.
 
Geecat ,.If we can get a bloke who is more physically stable than Loats, more talented than Chambers, ready to rock straight into the team, then I agree lets look at him. Ruckmen are scarce and there aren't many seniors ready ruckmen at other clubs not being used by there clubs. If we start chasing a ruckman from an other clubs best 22, I believe our success rate will be low to zero in getting him. Who would it be? Ottens? Hasn’t exactly proven to be Bullitt proof. Keating, the same. Ok If we go for somebody " senior ready, has experience and is a decent enough ruckman to pair with King until Blake comes good" we are talking 2nd and 3rd string ruckmen which might or might not be better than what we have. Again, who would it be? Somebody from Port Adelaide, they seem to always have extra big guys? With Primus the way he is I don’t see them giving there 2nd or 3rd stringers away. Even clubs like Essendon have had to take risks to get players to walk straight in, Barnes, Salmon, Alessio and now Allan from Carlton.

My main point is that the big guys we have are not only not really good backups, they aren’t top draw talent so they never will be good backups. King will still be around a little while and that gives us a small window of opportunity to get some young-ish talent. If one is to put time and effort in to players like we did with Street and are doing with Chambers, let's start with the best raw material one can get. At worst we might then have a worthy player to assist to Blake in 3-4 years time, which we didn’t have for King. The bonus with a guy Laycock is that he might even develop into a Salmon type who can be a good Key forward.
Maybe there are players from a draft a couple years earlier than the guys I have mentioned that would be more ready to go. Fine, but let's make sure we go for somebody that has more to offer than just effort.
 

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Originally posted by catattack
How much VFL have you seen? At the moment I would take Smith over Blake any day.

There is a poster on Cats Claws that likes Smith. JubJub amongst others seem to take delight in shooting him down whenever they can - he doesn't like Smith for that reason IMHO.
 
Originally posted by JUBJUB
I was listing the ruckman in order.I don't really consider Smith a ruckman.He's more of a KPP.He doesn't ruck enough to be considered a ruckman.
So why include Smith as a ruckman if you don't consider him to be a ruckman?

In any instance Smith is a better ruckman than Blake. Blake has gradually been eased into the ruck, however doesn't shoulder the main role.
 
Again, who would it be? Somebody from Port Adelaide, they seem to always have extra big guys?

You say we should be going after top-shelf second-string ruckmen yet you suggest we go after Port's second tier ruckmen? From my point of view, Ackland, Brogan, Lade, Primus and perhaps Damon White are the only ruckmen Port have. Primus, Brogan and even White probably won't be traded. Lade is injury prone and Ackland isn't exactly a great back-up ruckman to King either.

My main point is that the big guys we have are not only not really good backups, they aren’t top draw talent so they never will be good backups.

You don't need top draw talent to be a good back-up ruckman. Brogan and Charman are proven examples of that. They weren't exactly rated as top talent back in their junior days yet they have become fine ruckmen anyhow. We haven't even seen Loats in many games, yet you among many others have judged him on this injury. I felt his efforts in the Wiz Cup were reasonable enough to suggest he has some sort of future in the game. Give the bloke some time first is all I'm saying.
 

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Originally posted by catattack

In any instance Smith is a better ruckman than Blake.

Rubbish.

Jeff Smith has many athletic gifts, but he is not a ruckmans ********. He is horribly soft, simply avoids body contact (great for a ruckman, eh), and goes missing.

Mark Blake may never make it, however he is a far better rucking prospect than Jeff Smith. Blake has a far better approach, and the mechanics of his ruckwork are as good as anyones at the club.
 
Geecat
I am sick of us being the landing strip broken down jumbos.Sick of us being the dupe. Sick of us thinking we can get more games out of them when others couldn’t.
Geelong has a history of getting guys that haven’t been able to put games together at other clubs or at the end of the career. I hope I’m wrong about Loats because from the early form I also thought he showed more of a liking for body contact than Street. How do I rate him?. Well at the moment he’s not even as good as the guy he replaced, Street. He was drafted the same year as Street but unlike him he has not had a constant player like King keeping him out of the AFL side. Th Hawks saw the need to get Wren and Everitt as their main guys, so from this I would say that they must not have thought him up to being a top ruckman. As a 2nd or 3rd type guy, he played 11 games in 02-03, Street played in 17 in 01-03 so there’s not a lot difference between the two in experience but from what I've heard in the media he missed quite a few games through injury where as Street was fit often but was considered not up to it unless King was out.Street was considered as a Ruckman.Period.He was cosidered not good enough to play in the forward line. Street now with the bullies is playing AFL and kicking goals while Loats in his first year with us, just when we need him has another injury. Do we want to bet how many games he will play before another injury hits. Some guys just haven’t got the body to hack it, like Paul Lynch.
If the guy can stay fit I think the guy might do something for us but he needs games and lots of them to build up my confidence before I’ll start banking on him
 
Originally posted by Turbocat
Street was considered as a Ruckman.Period.He was cosidered not good enough to play in the forward line. Street now with the bullies is playing AFL and kicking goals while Loats in his first year with us, just when we need him has another injury.

Street was injury-prone at Geelong.He missed the start of the season in his last 2 or 3 years.He might work up forward on occassions for the Dogs,but only at games at Telstra Dome.

Once it starts raining,he'd be useless up forward.
 

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