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Ruckman

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Bussie

Bussie

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Hi all
Long time gawker first time poster.
I have been thinking about our ruck stocks, clearly Jolls is in his twilight and i think Wood's time may be up. So, where too from here? Well, i've been looking at other clubs and how trades have helped a few ruckman come into their own. Sam Jacobs, Jon Griffin and to a lesser extent, Jonathan Giles.
So, whats my point? Tom Bellchambers. Young, tall, athletic and can go forward if needed. Best of all, AFL experience. The fact we play big Sliding Dawes in the ruck at 194 over Wood at 204 is a worry in my eyes. Witts and Ceglar are young and raw but i have a feeling they will be stars.
Would Bellcho be worth going after or do i have rocks in my head? Any other suggestion?
Heres my thoughts on a few others
Warnock, R-Too pricy, hardly any games really, injury prone.
Clarke,Z-Going nowhere, freo will keep him
Seaby,M-Could be useful, but maybe an ideal fit, not consistent. Beaten for spot by Pyke, gotta hurt.
White, J-Too short, inconsistent.
Minson, W-No.
Jamar,M-Yeah, pretty good, another one in his twilight. Probably will want too much, he rates himself pretty highly.
Dixon, C-Handy ruck, forward, would the suns let him go?

Be nice....

Bussie
 
Bellchambers is essentially Essendon's first choice ruck now. No chance of getting him.

Ruck talent seems to be difficult to identify. Guys like Giles, Mumford, and Jacobs didn't show a great deal at their original clubs. The latter two certainly showed signs, but no more than Wood has for us. When they moved, they really came into their own. Perhaps it's a combination of responsibility and sheer maturity that does it.

Nevertheless, it almost seems like a gamble with ruckmen at AFL level. I would kill to have someone like Sam Jacobs at the club; so yes, if we can get a nice recruit like that, we should. But I have a good feeling about Witts/Ceglar too.
 
Essendon would be the ones with rocks in their head if they let Bellchambers go. So unless there was a major fallout I don't think he'll be available.

Have always been a fan of Charlie Dixon but he's more of a 2nd ruck option.

Not sure of the other options you mentioned as I'm not aware of the contract situations. I'd be reluctant to chase a contracted ruckman - price would be too high.

My view is that we need a good stop gap to lead the transition post-Jolly until either Witts, Ceglar can step up. Maybe Seaby?

Or we could chase someone in the VFL? Don't watch that comp but maybe an Orren Stephenson type?
 
A few left field options;

David Hille; He will likely be leaving Essendon next year, with Bellchambers and Ryder well ahead of him, even when he's fit now. At 31 he is old, but maybe we could alternate Hille and Jolly next year?

Matthew Leuenberger; Billy Longer was taken as a very high draft pick by the Lions, and with the Berger struggling with injuries, we may be able to organise a trade for a player who sees little future at a weak club.

Hamish McIntosh; North have a plethora of ruck options, in fact they don't know whether they are going to play H-Mac, even when he's fit. He's getting older, and may want to leave for a crack at a flag.
 

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Bussie said:
Hi all
Long time gawker first time poster.
I have been thinking about our ruck stocks, clearly Jolls is in his twilight and i think Wood's time may be up. So, where too from here? Well, i've been looking at other clubs and how trades have helped a few ruckman come into their own. Sam Jacobs, Jon Griffin and to a lesser extent, Jonathan Giles.
So, whats my point? Tom Bellchambers. Young, tall, athletic and can go forward if needed. Best of all, AFL experience. The fact we play big Sliding Dawes in the ruck at 194 over Wood at 204 is a worry in my eyes. Witts and Ceglar are young and raw but i have a feeling they will be stars.
Would Bellcho be worth going after or do i have rocks in my head? Any other suggestion?
Heres my thoughts on a few others
Warnock, R-Too pricy, hardly any games really, injury prone.
Clarke,Z-Going nowhere, freo will keep him
Seaby,M-Could be useful, but maybe an ideal fit, not consistent. Beaten for spot by Pyke, gotta hurt.
White, J-Too short, inconsistent.
Minson, W-No.
Jamar,M-Yeah, pretty good, another one in his twilight. Probably will want too much, he rates himself pretty highly.
Dixon, C-Handy ruck, forward, would the suns let him go?

Be nice....

Bussie
Click to expand...

Some questions:
What is his contract status?
Does he want to move?
Why would he want to come to Collingwood?
Why would he want to leave Essendon?
What would he cost in $?
What would he cost in trade (name a player of equal value Essendon would want)?
 
mattys123 said:
A few left field options;

David Hille; He will likely be leaving Essendon next year, with Bellchambers and Ryder well ahead of him, even when he's fit now. At 31 he is old, but maybe we could alternate Hille and Jolly next year?

Matthew Leuenberger; Billy Longer was taken as a very high draft pick by the Lions, and with the Berger struggling with injuries, we may be able to organise a trade for a player who sees little future at a weak club.

Hamish McIntosh; North have a plethora of ruck options, in fact they don't know whether they are going to play H-Mac, even when he's fit. He's getting older, and may want to leave for a crack at a flag.
Click to expand...

Leuenberger is the 1 that Interest me the most but he would cost a fair bit to get him off the lions
 
mattys123 said:
A few left field options;

David Hille; He will likely be leaving Essendon next year, with Bellchambers and Ryder well ahead of him, even when he's fit now. At 31 he is old, but maybe we could alternate Hille and Jolly next year?

Matthew Leuenberger; Billy Longer was taken as a very high draft pick by the Lions, and with the Berger struggling with injuries, we may be able to organise a trade for a player who sees little future at a weak club.

Hamish McIntosh; North have a plethora of ruck options, in fact they don't know whether they are going to play H-Mac, even when he's fit. He's getting older, and may want to leave for a crack at a flag.
Click to expand...
I reckon Hamish McIntosh would be a really good ruckman to have, North have given him a really bad run in recent years and I rate him pretty highly as a ruckman who's good around the ground and up forward. He is 28 so would give us a couple of years for Witts to develop.
 
What about Shaun McKernan of Adelaide. Seems on the outer at the crows, with Jenkins being played ahead of him, I'm fairly sure he's not injured either. Has only played 20 games since being drafted in 2008.

Is more of a second ruck, but can play as a forward or back, very much a Leigh Brown type utility. Also got 19 hitouts in two of his three games so far this season, which is pretty good for a backup ruck.
 
Bussie said:
Hi all
Long time gawker first time poster.
I have been thinking about our ruck stocks, clearly Jolls is in his twilight and i think Wood's time may be up. So, where too from here? Well, i've been looking at other clubs and how trades have helped a few ruckman come into their own. Sam Jacobs, Jon Griffin and to a lesser extent, Jonathan Giles.
So, whats my point? Tom Bellchambers. Young, tall, athletic and can go forward if needed. Best of all, AFL experience. The fact we play big Sliding Dawes in the ruck at 194 over Wood at 204 is a worry in my eyes. Witts and Ceglar are young and raw but i have a feeling they will be stars.
Would Bellcho be worth going after or do i have rocks in my head? Any other suggestion?
Heres my thoughts on a few others
Warnock, R-Too pricy, hardly any games really, injury prone.
Clarke,Z-Going nowhere, freo will keep him
Seaby,M-Could be useful, but maybe an ideal fit, not consistent. Beaten for spot by Pyke, gotta hurt.
White, J-Too short, inconsistent.
Minson, W-No.
Jamar,M-Yeah, pretty good, another one in his twilight. Probably will want too much, he rates himself pretty highly.
Dixon, C-Handy ruck, forward, would the suns let him go?

Be nice....

Bussie
Click to expand...

I'd probably just persist with Jolly to be honest. He seems to think he can play on for another year or two and if we manage him and give him some rest weeks through the season I think we can make it worth with what we have with a Ceglar type able to step up if required. Jolly is still a quality no.1 ruckman and still a top 10 league ruck.

I do agree that you can have success trading for rucks. My belief is that the key is finding those who are underutilised. Gold Coast in a few years time might have a few of those and Carlton with Warnock is an obvious one.

But to be honest the only player I'd be super keen to get if he became available is Todd Goldstein. Really looks good playing those max ruck minutes, but alongside another ruck in McIntosh looks lost and if he is to become unhappy would be a hell of a get.

If North Melbourne were to put all their eggs in the Goldstein basket and decide to trade McIntosh I would also happily make a play at him - but I would be weary of the price as he will be turning 29 next season and won't be able to produce to this level for much longer.

Jamar is aging (30 next year) and no longer a top 10 league ruckman. We are better off with Jolly as our no.1.

Z.Clarke can play and will develop into a quality ruckman. Is a Victorian but expect him to stay on at Fremantle.

Jon Griffin could be available and isn't the worst option but wouldn't be super high on my list.


I'd probably just wait till Jolly retires. See what we have then and if we decide we need an immediate ruckman hopefully by that time some of Gold Coast's rucks: Z.Smith, Gorringe, Hickey, Nicholls, Dixon and R.Thompson will have developed with maybe 1-2 of them become available looking for more opportunity and become those next underutilised rucks who present value.


Long term Witts and Gault as our combo with Ceglar as a depth ruck look like a solid group. Here's hoping they all continue to develop and can go past Wood sooner rather than later so we don't need to trade into an opposition ruckman.
 

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Alot of love for H.Mac, someone i forgot! Probably not a bad solution short term. I feel in 2-3 years we could have alot of ruckman with a few father-son selections, if we do pick them up of course, which i'm a little giddy about lol.
Jolly doesnt seem to be able to jump much anymore? Don't get me wrong, love Jolly to the hills, sounds good too, but i feel his career and body may be coming to an end.
 
Nothing about that would provide us with anything better than we already have.

Jolly still relatively young, despite what some suggest Wood is developing, Ceglar and Witts and Gault developing. And who knows where Keeffe may end up playing. Stewart and Moore on the horizon as potential F/S selections.

Just how many ruckmen do we really need on the list.
 
carnthepies19 said:
What about Shaun McKernan of Adelaide. Seems on the outer at the crows, with Jenkins being played ahead of him, I'm fairly sure he's not injured either. Has only played 20 games since being drafted in 2008.

Is more of a second ruck, but can play as a forward or back, very much a Leigh Brown type utility. Also got 19 hitouts in two of his three games so far this season, which is pretty good for a backup ruck.
Click to expand...

Would not mind McKernan at all. Wanted to Draft him in 2008 but did not happen though not complaining about Steele and Beams;) If we can get him for a Good Price then I be Very Glad
 
Essendon would have to have rocks in their head to let go of Bellchambers.
Nth Melb would have to have rocks in their head to let go oh MacIntosh.

Unfortunately we can't just name a good big man from another club and say "let's get him". There will only be 1 or 2 up for grabs. And he will be a 3rd in line struggling for games at his existing club, which won't be enough to make him No.1 with us. McKernan and Warnock are possibilities. But at this time of locking in as many stars as we can, it will be tough to tempt somebody to us on much less cash than they are alread getting, and would be offered by other clubs with more room to move.

Cam Wood will be with us for a few years yet, whether he comes good or not. We simply can't afford to chop him, as we will be left underdone. Cegs and Witts both show buckets of promise, but as others have said, are at least 2 years away.
 
Witts should get a game or two later in the year. Next year he should play 10+ games as 3rd tall changing ruck, leaving Dawes to concentrate on being a forward.

Ceglar is progressing nicely and I really like the look of Gault as a (very) tall mobile option.

Wood is Wood. he is a No. 1 ruck or nothing and I'll back him to be the insurance for Jolly for the next season or two. Going and buying a stop gap from somewhere else would put serious pressure on our salary cap at a time when we don't need it.
 

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i get a feeling this will be jollys last year... his been battling his knee problem for over a year now, that takes ALOT out of u mentally and his already been around for quiet a while. Perhaps his knee will be okay to go on for another year, doubt mentally he will though. Have to wait and see though, still ages left in the season.
 
Bussie said:
Alot of love for H.Mac, someone i forgot! Probably not a bad solution short term. I feel in 2-3 years we could have alot of ruckman with a few father-son selections, if we do pick them up of course, which i'm a little giddy about lol.
Jolly doesnt seem to be able to jump much anymore? Don't get me wrong, love Jolly to the hills, sounds good too, but i feel his career and body may be coming to an end.
Click to expand...

With Jolly it is more strategic positioning at bounces than jumping at the ball. He still wins more hitouts than his direct opponent most weeks and gets allot of those to advantage so I don't see a lack of jumping ability to be a major issue.

We are managing Jolly as we did with Brad Ottens late in his career giving him those routine rests and listening to recent interviews with Jolls he continues to suggest he has another 2 or so years left in him so we'll see what happens but I'm not as down on him as many on this board seem to be right now.
 
Knightmare said:
With Jolly it is more strategic positioning at bounces than jumping at the ball. He still wins more hitouts than his direct opponent most weeks and gets allot of those to advantage so I don't see a lack of jumping ability to be a major issue.

We are managing Jolly as we did with Brad Ottens late in his career giving him those routine rests and listening to recent interviews with Jolls he continues to suggest he has another 2 or so years left in him so we'll see what happens but I'm not as down on him as many on this board seem to be right now.
Click to expand...

I'm not down on him. Clearly he has gone back a few notches while Woods gone forward a few. Personally i dont really think its important which of the two plays, they are both at the same level. We are like Brisbane a few years ago when they had McDonald and Keating in the ruck. They rarely played together, it was often either one or the other. And hopefully like Brisbane we have a Charman (Witts/Ceglar) waiting in the wings.
 
Nothing will happen, nothing needs to happen.

Jolly looked fine for his first game back vs Geelong and Cam Wood has been excellent.

so much underrating going on for Wood it's just stupid, you all think he's shit but the stats say he's been performing better than Jolly this season. Cam's been far more dangerous up forward this season.

Calm down lads, nothings happening because nothing needs to happen.
Cams a fantastic backup.
 
Timmy from Thomastown said:
I'm not down on him. Clearly he has gone back a few notches while Woods gone forward a few. Personally i dont really think its important which of the two plays, they are both at the same level. We are like Brisbane a few years ago when they had McDonald and Keating in the ruck. They rarely played together, it was often either one or the other. And hopefully like Brisbane we have a Charman (Witts/Ceglar) waiting in the wings.
Click to expand...

I can't say I agree with the idea that Jolly and Wood are at the same level.

Jolly's numbers are much the same as last year with incremental decreases in most stats and has 4+ more hitouts per game than he did last year.
As far as I'm concerned he is far ahead of Wood. Will win more hitouts and do so against better opposition. But hitout to advantage numbers signficantly better for Jolly and his hitouts are far more meaningful whereas Wood mostly looks to break even and limit the impact of the opposition ruckman in most contests, so in the hitouts to advantage area Jolly gets the clear edge. Also over a season I'd expect Jolly to hit the scoreboard more than Wood.

Wood on the other hand while he has improved incrementally has not improved substantially enough to be considered the no.1 ruckman. He is adequate as depth but he is not someone you want in the side if you intend to make any impact against good teams.

Also worth noting is that Wood played against weaker opposition in Carlton (lost the matchup considerably against a solid ruck division in Kreuzer and Hampson), Western Bull Dogs (With Minson and Roughead who are both below average ruckmen and only broke even), then Brisbane (with 1st year ruckman Longer and again only managed to break even which is very disappointing considering the what should be decisive experience disparity).
Jolly on the other hand won all his matchups (minus the effort against Carlton which was poor. Jolly won against Hawthorn (Weak ruck division), Richmond (Played a better game than the in form Maric who has been a top 3 league ruckman this season), dominated Port Adelaide who have no notable ruck division, Jolly beat Essendon who have an above average ruck division in Bellchambers and Ryder, as well as beating the Geelong ruck combination of Stephenson and West.

Give me Jolly any day. Jolly is a top 10 ruckman. Wood I'd struggle to fit inside my top 25 if I was to pick someone to win me a game tomorrow.
 
Just hearing for the first time on channel 7 about Jon Giles being out of contract at the end of the season. Sounding like if they bring in a big name ruckman he might ask to be traded which will be very interesting.

Giles has had a serious year and would be a heck of a replacement for Jolly. Strong through the ruck and can move forward and have an impact, take a grab and kick a goal. I suspect Giles would learn allot from Jolls as they play similar games and he would loom as a good fit stylistically.

If we do lose a player to GWS or free agency perhaps it gives us the opportunity to make a move for the big fella.

Anyway just another name for the list and probably one of the better fits based on style of play and his age.
 

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