Rwanda Invades Congo (DRC)

[Saint]

It seems like Rwanda are dropping more and more pretenses about who is supporting the M23 group. Rwanda has thousands of troops in the Congo and is openly supporting the rebels against the DRC Govt and various Hutu militia forces who fleed to DRC after the Genocide.

The Tutsi M23 group has siezed Goma Airport and seems like it wants to take all of Goma and establish a permanent presence and superiority in the region for good.

Seems the Rwandan Genocide and battle between Hutus and Tutsis rages on. And no major power is going to send their troops to the middle of Africa to try to do anything about it.

Western leaders traipsing themselves to Auschwitz for ceremony and repeating the phrase "Never Again" really is ringing pretty hollow with what's going on in Palestine, Sudan, Congo, Myanmar.

I guess what they really meant is "never again to white people".

 

[Spearman]

It seems like Rwanda are dropping more and more pretenses about who is supporting the M23 group. Rwanda has thousands of troops in the Congo and is openly supporting the rebels against the DRC Govt and various Hutu militia forces who fleed to DRC after the Genocide.

The Tutsi M23 group has siezed Goma Airport and seems like it wants to take all of Goma and establish a permanent presence and superiority in the region for good.

Seems the Rwandan Genocide and battle between Hutus and Tutsis rages on. And no major power is going to send their troops to the middle of Africa to try to do anything about it.

Western leaders traipsing themselves to Auschwitz for ceremony and repeating the phrase "Never Again" really is ringing pretty hollow with what's going on in Palestine, Sudan, Congo, Myanmar.

I guess what they really meant is "never again to white people".

I'm old enough the remember the genocide. This is going to get real ugly. But like you said, it will only bring some hand wringing and thoughts and prayers from the West. It will be like Sudan and the rest of sub-Saharan Africa.
Wonder if China is going to try to get involved?

 

[Saint]

I'm old enough the remember the genocide. This is going to get real ugly. But like you said, it will only bring some hand wringing and thoughts and prayers from the West. It will be like Sudan and the rest of sub-Saharan Africa.
Wonder if China is going to try to get involved?

A lot of minerals to be had, but it's such a hard place to get to and maintain a presence. The place is really in the middle of nowhere and then add on really difficult volcanic terrain.

I went to the genocide museum in Kigali and the Hotel Milles Collines. Then went trekking for gorillas in Congo after crossing the Ugandan border. Saw the MONUSCO compounds and we had an armed guard. Then the truck broke down and we had to leg it for a 6 hour trek to get to the national park to start the trek to look for gorillas. The truck was fixed for the return to Uganda, but it was gunning it through a lot of dodgy looking places. The people seemed friendly enough on the whole, but it wasn't as laid-back a place as Uganda.

Rwanda and Congo have been in factional wars for 30 years.

 

[Spearman]

A lot of minerals to be had, but it's such a hard place to get to and maintain a presence. The place is really in the middle of nowhere and then add on really difficult volcanic terrain.

I went to the genocide museum in Kigali and the Hotel Milles Collines. Then went trekking for gorillas in Congo after crossing the Ugandan border. Saw the MONUSCO compounds and we had an armed guard. Then the truck broke down and we had to leg it for a 6 hour trek to get to the national park to start the trek to look for gorillas. The truck was fixed for the return to Uganda, but it was gunning it through a lot of dodgy looking places. The people seemed friendly enough on the whole, but it wasn't as laid-back a place as Uganda.

Rwanda and Congo have been in factional wars for 30 years.

that's a cool, sad, and scary trip all at the same time.

 

[Saint]

that's a cool, sad, and scary trip all at the same time.

It was too exciting at the time to get scared, only scary in hindsight.

A shame situation hasn't improved at all since then.

 

[Gough]

I'm old enough the remember the genocide. This is going to get real ugly. But like you said, it will only bring some hand wringing and thoughts and prayers from the West. It will be like Sudan and the rest of sub-Saharan Africa.
Wonder if China is going to try to get involved?

Everyone went to South Africa in '94 hoping for conflict then an actual genocide happened up the road.

 

[Roobs321]

the west is responsible for all this anyway, destructive legacy of Belgian colonialism, the ethnic tensions that periodically break out ever since were their imposed invention

 

[Saint]

the west is responsible for all this anyway, destructive legacy of Belgian colonialism, the ethnic tensions that periodically break out ever since were their imposed invention

Well this battle between Hutus and Tutsis is ignoring the colonial borders, so I'm not sure how much part that plays. It seems unlikely that there haven't been periods of relative calm and war between groups like the Hutus and Tutsis for hundreds and thousands of years.

The first European cross-Atlantic slave traders simply picked up slaves at the already established slave markets across Africa.

 

[Seeds]

It seems like Rwanda are dropping more and more pretenses about who is supporting the M23 group. Rwanda has thousands of troops in the Congo and is openly supporting the rebels against the DRC Govt and various Hutu militia forces who fleed to DRC after the Genocide.

The Tutsi M23 group has siezed Goma Airport and seems like it wants to take all of Goma and establish a permanent presence and superiority in the region for good.

Seems the Rwandan Genocide and battle between Hutus and Tutsis rages on. And no major power is going to send their troops to the middle of Africa to try to do anything about it.

Western leaders traipsing themselves to Auschwitz for ceremony and repeating the phrase "Never Again" really is ringing pretty hollow with what's going on in Palestine, Sudan, Congo, Myanmar.

I guess what they really meant is "never again to white people".

How does a post about war between rwanda and drc become a pot shot against white people?

When white people intervene they are war mongers. When they dont intervene they arent doing enough?

 

[Freomaniac]

I'm old enough the remember the genocide. This is going to get real ugly. But like you said, it will only bring some hand wringing and thoughts and prayers from the West. It will be like Sudan and the rest of sub-Saharan Africa.
Wonder if China is going to try to get involved?

China has a lot of fingers in the African pie or cake don't they?

 

[Saint]

How does a post about war between rwanda and drc become a pot shot against white people?

When white people intervene they are war mongers. When they dont intervene they arent doing enough?

Why are they intervening and providing a lot of support to Ukraine and Israel, but not the people of Rwanda/Congo?

It would be far easier and save a lot more lives if they intervened in the Congo.

 

[barreness]

Well this battle between Hutus and Tutsis is ignoring the colonial borders, so I'm not sure how much part that plays. It seems unlikely that there haven't been periods of relative calm and war between groups like the Hutus and Tutsis for hundreds and thousands of years.

From my understanding is there is no real ethnic divisions between them. It was more a class structure between pastoralists and agriculturalists with some class mobility possible. They had a high functioning society and the colonists decided that it must be from a superior race ruling, hence they codified it and froze it, so as to best exploit. Then well, you know the rest

 

[Iridescence]

Why are they intervening and providing a lot of support to Ukraine and Israel, but not the people of Rwanda/Congo?

It would be far easier and save a lot more lives if they intervened in the Congo.

I know that your question is rhetorical, but to answer it pretty simply; USA/Europe have little interest in those regions. They gain next to nothing from influence or soft power so they wouldn't bother. They do not actually care for human rights.

On the other hand, Ukraine is populated with white Europeans, and Israel is Israel and so it will always be supported for various reasons, including politcal lobbies, U.S. interests aligned with Israeli interests in the Middle East as well as the Christian fundamentalists in Cogress.

For the U.S. and Europe, it was seen as an east sell it to their nations - especially in the case of "big bad Russia", the people of Europe are especially amenable to helping Ukrainians. Europeans share that perception of an existential threat, should Russia succeed in Ukraine.

█████ has changed the dynamic with Ukraine and Russia. He doesn't follow all previous administration's foreign policy status quo of the preservation of a "rules based order" which saw a desire for American global hegemony to remain the status quo.

It seems as though █████ is quite okay with global spheres of influence, where he admires fellow authoritarians dealing in their sphere, he in his, and should the two counties have issues, they should "do a deal" instead of going to war. Too bad if you're a smaller country in America's sphere, because █████ will seek to gobble you up.

Alas, to the people of Congo, Sudan and other war-torn nations of Africa - still battling the effects of centuries of colonialism - my heart weeps for you all. The West may not care, but many people in the West do.

 

[Andre]

Why are they intervening and providing a lot of support to Ukraine and Israel, but not the people of Rwanda/Congo?

It would be far easier and save a lot more lives if they intervened in the Congo.

For Europe worrying about Ukraine is a no brainer, Ukraine is in Europe and Putin and his mouthpieces want more than just Ukraine (complete taking over Moldova, Georgia, then the Baltics). Germany provides Israel plenty of support as ongoing reparations, but outside that, it's support is more the US.

Rwanda isn't going to try and take over multiple countries, like Russia. It's easy to try and frame it as racist Western countries going with 'saving white people good', 'saving black people, waste of time', but Rwanda isn't a nuclear power, that if not stopped, leads to nuclear proliferation, where countries equate having their own nukes as the only way to guarantee territorial integrity.

The war in Ukraine has the potential to fundamentally alter the world for the worse. Israel is in the Middle East, which until we get rid of fossil fuels is a region most countries want at least marginally stable, so as not to wreck their economies.

Rwanda and other warn torn countries in Africa are a tragedy, but they aren't going to directly effect most of the world, one way or another, harsh as that is. The continent that is obviously affected is Africa and African countries should be stepping up to try and put a stop to the wars on their continent, much as Europe is trying to put a stop to the war on their continent.

 

[rank and file]

Looks like US and China are ready to carve up
the DRC,both putting pressure on Rwanda and M23 with results.
Russia left out in the cold.

 

[Saint]

Looks like US and China are ready to carve up
the DRC,both putting pressure on Rwanda and M23 with results.
Russia left out in the cold.

It looks to me like Rwanda is going to break in two, but that both the USA and China are against the Rwandan/M23 takeover of the eastern province.

Are you saying that the DRC Govt will use both Chinese and US support to kick out the Rwandans and then the DRC will grant them big concessions?

I can't see China or the US committing enough to support the DRC Govt forcibly removing M23. DRC don't have, and have never had, the logistical ability to fight in those eastern provinces. (It's a 47 hour drive from Kinshasa to Goma, 3 hours from Kigali to Goma).

With Joseph Kabila returning to DRC In Goma under the protection of M23, it seems like Rwanda might make a play to create an alternative Govt to the Kinshasa Govt. Perhaps to create a new independent nation in the eastern provinces, or at least a pretend version of that.

 

[Freomaniac]

Looks like US and China are ready to carve up
the DRC,both putting pressure on Rwanda and M23 with results.
Russia left out in the cold.

Someone was always gonna benefit

 

[rank and file]

Someone was always gonna benefit

█████'s daughter is married to this guy's son.
Envoy for the Middle East and Africa.


Lebanese operator,Massad Boulos.

 

[Saint]

It looks to me like Rwanda is going to break in two, but that both the USA and China are against the Rwandan/M23 takeover of the eastern province.

Are you saying that the DRC Govt will use both Chinese and US support to kick out the Rwandans and then the DRC will grant them big concessions?

I can't see China or the US committing enough to support the DRC Govt forcibly removing M23. DRC don't have, and have never had, the logistical ability to fight in those eastern provinces. (It's a 47 hour drive from Kinshasa to Goma, 3 hours from Kigali to Goma).

With Joseph Kabila returning to DRC In Goma under the protection of M23, it seems like Rwanda might make a play to create an alternative Govt to the Kinshasa Govt. Perhaps to create a new independent nation in the eastern provinces, or at least a pretend version of that.

I meant to say DRC will break in two....

The whole Hutu/Tutsi and mineral scramble makes this area a complete mess. Just not really suitable to western ideas of borders and Governments.