Saints v Pies - Friday Night Footy - Discussion

[Sunshine Saint]

And tend to agree with others on here that have Dal off the half back line. He has silky skills that would be an asset there. His possession count may have been ok in NZ, but most of them were rushed, scrambled, or not as they should have been.

He doesn't handle tags well and apart from the last quarter seems to be lacking intensity. Rather than have him dropped to Sandringham, I would rather we look for other options. Lots of examples of great players, fading in their preferred area, only to shine in another part of the ground.

Its not that he is owed the spot in the team, as no player is. Every player has to earn their spot on their own merits. But its foolish to not look at other options, to make the most of Dal and his talent.

If he doesn't move to a new level as a half back, then back to have a run around with Sandringham to find form.

 

[CrashTestDummy]

In: Hickey Out: Kosi
In: Milne Out: TDL
In: Siposs Out: Lee

Rotate the ruckmen in the forward line

Milne to to step up as leading forward (which he did for years very well) and not try the prop and stop and have the opposition overshoot the ball. Harry O'Brien has Milne worked out with this tactic and marks or spoils over Milne each time

Siposs needs to be the third tall target in the forward line.

Murdoch, Saunders, Wright, Ross all keep their spots, irrespective of any other changes. Its not a bad thing for Newnes, Gwilt, Milera, Ray to spend time at Sandringham showing the form that demands their inclusion. This is what youth and depth give us, competition. Love it.

Siposs for Lee sounds good.

I don't think Kozi should be dropped.

I don't think Milney should be in.

TDL should be dropped for a kid.

 

[CrashTestDummy]

And tend to agree with others on here that have Dal off the half back line. He has silky skills that would be an asset there. His possession count may have been ok in NZ, but most of them were rushed, scrambled, or not as they should have been.

He will still get tagged. He has to unlearn being free.

Play a kid for Dal.

Better for the club in the long run.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Siposs for Lee sounds good.

I don't think Kozi should be dropped.

I don't think Milney should be in.

TDL should be dropped for a kid.

I think that emotionally a number of people have trouble with Kosi being dropped. Can we then agree that he is reassigned to Sandringham?

Milne has had his punishment. Time for him to earn his keep now.

 

[CrashTestDummy]

I think that emotionally a number of people have trouble with Kosi being dropped. Can we then agree that he is reassigned to Sandringham?

Milne has had his punishment. Time for him to earn his keep now.

It's not about emotion that I want Kozi to stay in. I know that physically he will be great against the wobbles.

Milney needs to grow up. He is one of our older players. It would be great for the coaching staff to explain to him that putting his fingers in Dempsey's face was unacceptable.

I think it's time for our younger blokes to learn now. They will be here for a while yet.

Kozi will be great this week with one less regular tall in their backline. The wobbles will bring in Frost for Toovey.

Our kids versus theirs

 

[Sunshine Saint]

It's not about emotion that I want Kozi to stay in. I know that physically he will be great against the wobbles.

Milney needs to grow up. He is one of our older players. It would be great for the coaching staff to explain to him that putting his fingers in Dempsey's face was unacceptable.

I think it's time for our younger blokes to learn now. They will be here for a while yet.

Kozi will be great this week with one less regular tall in their backline. The wobbles will bring in Frost for Toovey.

Our kids versus theirs

Have to agree to disagree, as its hard to see that by keeping Kosi in the team, we are having our kids playing their kids.

He was slow, badly disciplined, no impact or forward pressure. The telling stat that someone posted on here, was that he hadn't crashed one pack for the game. That didn't come as a surprise.

Time for Hickey to come in. Or I would even keep a clearly not ready yet Lee, as he is the future and Kosi is clearly the past.
Or if Lee is not the one, would even like to see Spencer White instead of Kosi. Unfortunately the arguments that people put forward as to why Kosi should be there, he can no longer do.

 

[Squizz]

I would be dropping Dal Santo. Too soft against the Swans. He should be getting contested possessions in the magoos. A kid for Dal Santo for sure against Collingwood. Let's skill up those who want to fight and want to win.

OUT: DAL SANTO
IN: NEWNES

Now that BJ is gone. Dal needs to learn what it's like to cop a tag. Give a kid a go until he understands.

Why does this even come up. If Dal Santo (who I thought was OK with a slightly different role) is getting tagged - and still gets 21 possessions and lays 6 tackles - then someone else is free?

 

[tbarker]

Have to agree to disagree, as its hard to see that by keeping Kosi in the team, we are having our kids playing their kids.

He was slow, badly disciplined, no impact or forward pressure. The telling stat that someone posted on here, was that he hadn't crashed one pack for the game. That didn't come as a surprise.

Time for Hickey to come in. Or I would even keep a clearly not ready yet Lee, as he is the future and Kosi is clearly the past.
Or if Lee is not the one, would even like to see Spencer White instead of Kosi. Unfortunately the arguments that people put forward as to why Kosi should be there, he can no longer do.

Sorry but that poster was wrong and should go back and watch the game. It was not luck that Rooey got a heap of it with Kosi in the side. Kosi will be better for the run and has always troubled the Wobbles.

Milne has embarrassed himself and is out of form anyway so he doesn't come back in.

Sipposs has to come in for Lee.

Newnes comes in for TDL.

We then have 2 more midfielders who can rotate through the forward line or half back.

Of course much will depend on how players pull up. Murdoch may be sore as and need to play a softer game for Sandy instead. Saunders might get a full game and Dunnell may come in as sub. Ray didn't play because he couldn't get up with the short turnaround. He will come into calculations after starring against pies in the Umpires cup game last year.

 

[maverick eoe]

Agree actually, Give Stanley first crack with Fisher playing loose man, Gwilt if back on Lynch

Stanly has height speed reach etc. I agree with giving him (stanly) a go at cloke.

 

[Plugger35]

As much as I hate to say it, Saad needs to be dropped or have something done to him to lift his game. He is considerably worse then last year and frankly should have really lifted yesterday with Milne out and kicked 3 goals.

Maybe the games in the VFL at the start of last year prepared him a lot better and he hit the ground running but Ive been really disappointed in him this year. He should be kicking 40 goals this year with his skill.

Also Hickey really needs to come in instead of Kosi. If we need another big target up front then Hickey certainly is one and he can take a really good mark when he is switched on.

Kosi is just too gone to justify the quarter of football he plays each game.

I'm a big fan of Saad but he's been pretty poor the last few weeks and could probably do with a spell in the VFL to regain some confidence and form. He can't expect to get by on cult hero status alone, needs to be producing goals.

I'd like to see Milera get another shot, the guy has the pace, silky skills and the bit of x factor we so desperately need, only question mark is his desire and workrate, he has the talent to be an A grade half forward. Watters needs to read him the riot act so he can start delivering to his potential.

 

[CHBench]

Milera in for TDL. Class above today, Milne's form (including the gouge) doesn't deserve a walk back into the 22.
Sip to play a majority of time in 1 position, replacing Lee up forward.
I don't need to mention the other change cause I think I've made that point enough!


Watching the VFL today further confirmed to me today there's a lot of less obvious guys running around that if they keep going the way they're going they'll deserve a go at some point. Dunell, Webster, Shenton, Curren etc. I'm hoping the youngsters getting a go now manage to push themselves above that 18-22 threshold, because we'll get to a point where we're swapping kids for kids. It'll just be a rotating door for youngsters with less than 25 games, and that does no one any favours. So my expectations for this week (and coming games) is for a few new guys to start consolidating they're position in the side, showing signs of moving up the 'order' with some consistent output. I'm also expecting/hoping we make it uncomfortable for Collingwood like we did for Sydney. I won't really be expecting wins week in week out anymore, obviously, but I thinks its fair enough that we expect our guys to show some effort and not bend over for the big sides.

 

[Plugger35]

I think we can beat Collingwood or at least make it tough for them to beat us, they certainly aren't invincible as Hawthorn and Essendon have showed.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Out: Lee, Saad, TDL, Kosi
In: Siposs, Milera, Hickey, Dunell

 

[Noidenous]

Why does this even come up. If Dal Santo (who I thought was OK with a slightly different role) is getting tagged - and still gets 21 possessions and lays 6 tackles - then someone else is free?

Yes, someone who doesn't have his finesse, therefore quality of delivery.

Roughly 10-12 of those possessions were in the last quarter getting cheap Ablett-style 'give it to me' hand-offs.

 

[Squizz]

Yes, someone who doesn't have his finesse, therefore quality of delivery.

Roughly 10-12 of those possessions were in the last quarter getting cheap Ablett-style 'give it to me' hand-offs.

3 tackles to go with 6 last quarter possessions. He's obviously set very high expectations - his performance was well above what a replacement player would deliver.

 

[Noidenous]

3 tackles to go with 6 last quarter possessions. He's obviously set very high expectations - his performance was well above what a replacement player would deliver.

Was sure he had more than 6 for the last. Seemed every mark in the back line involved him coming behind for it.

Non-disposal due to pressure, maybe? Might have to rewatch and see what exactly happened (me, that is ).

 

[Defacto]

based on the VFL on the weekend
OUT: Lee, Saad
IN: Dunell, Newnes

you could argue milera but i think we needs more than 1 good game in the VFL to be brought back in. needs to improve the contested and defencive side of his game, or it will just be another repeat of what we've seen to date

 

[Squizz]

Was sure he had more than 6 for the last. Seemed every mark in the back line involved him coming behind for it.

Non-disposal due to pressure, maybe? Might have to rewatch and see what exactly happened (me, that is ).

Anyone who thinks he was pussy-footing around in the last quarter - watch:

http://www.saints.com.au/video/2013-04-26/rd-5-saints-v-swans-q4

Who body-slammed O'Keefe about 30 seconds after the quarter started???

30 seconds later, who wins a free for oof after a solid bump?

At 5.22 he blocks the path of a Swans player, who is wrapped up in a tackle from behind and holding the ball.

If you're STILL not convinced about his attitude, tune in at 7 min. A couple of desperate tackles.

No? At 12 min, Rhys drops a relatively easy mark. Dal is in the right spot to bail him out.

Got two out the back in the space of 20 secs at around the 13.30 mark, but the second was bloody good workrate for mine.

At the 16 min mark, he smothers a kick and follows up with good physical presence - which allows Steven to get an uncontested possession. No possession stats there, but very influential.

Runs half the ground and contests the ruck against O'Keefe at around 17.50 (wins it too).

I'm not watching any more. Please look at his "out the back" possession at 18.30. Just quality.

Anyone suggesting he needs to have a look at himself are having a laugh.

 

[Defacto]

Anyone who thinks he was pussy-footing around in the last quarter - watch:

http://www.saints.com.au/video/2013-04-26/rd-5-saints-v-swans-q4

Who body-slammed O'Keefe about 30 seconds after the quarter started???

30 seconds later, who wins a free for oof after a solid bump?

At 5.22 he blocks the path of a Swans player, who is wrapped up in a tackle from behind and holding the ball.

If you're STILL not convinced about his attitude, tune in at 7 min. A couple of desperate tackles.

No? At 12 min, Rhys drops a relatively easy mark. Dal is in the right spot to bail him out.

Got two out the back in the space of 20 secs at around the 13.30 mark, but the second was bloody good workrate for mine.

At the 16 min mark, he smothers a kick and follows up with good physical presence - which allows Steven to get an uncontested possession. No possession stats there, but very influential.

Runs half the ground and contests the ruck against O'Keefe at around 17.50 (wins it too).

I'm not watching any more. Please look at his "out the back" possession at 18.30. Just quality.

Anyone suggesting he needs to have a look at himself are having a laugh.

he tends to have better 3rd and 4th quarters. did he have the same intensity in the 1st and 2nd?

 

[Squizz]

he tends to have better 3rd and 4th quarters. did he have the same intensity in the 1st and 2nd?

So he runs games out strongly? My point is that its dumb logic to be saying that some kid can come in and replace him. Won't get close to his output (even if Dal is off his usual high standard).

 

[Noidenous]

Anyone who thinks he was pussy-footing around in the last quarter - watch:

http://www.saints.com.au/video/2013-04-26/rd-5-saints-v-swans-q4

Who body-slammed O'Keefe about 30 seconds after the quarter started???

30 seconds later, who wins a free for oof after a solid bump?

At 5.22 he blocks the path of a Swans player, who is wrapped up in a tackle from behind and holding the ball.

If you're STILL not convinced about his attitude, tune in at 7 min. A couple of desperate tackles.

No? At 12 min, Rhys drops a relatively easy mark. Dal is in the right spot to bail him out.

Got two out the back in the space of 20 secs at around the 13.30 mark, but the second was bloody good workrate for mine.

At the 16 min mark, he smothers a kick and follows up with good physical presence - which allows Steven to get an uncontested possession. No possession stats there, but very influential.

Runs half the ground and contests the ruck against O'Keefe at around 17.50 (wins it too).

I'm not watching any more. Please look at his "out the back" possession at 18.30. Just quality.

Anyone suggesting he needs to have a look at himself are having a laugh.

I wasn't questioning his last quarter.

I was questioning why it took him until the last quarter to impose himself.

 

[Squizz]

I wasn't questioning his last quarter.

I was questioning why it took him until the last quarter to impose himself.

You said they were cheap possies, and should retract the comment.

 

[saintsrfreak]

So he runs games out strongly? My point is that its dumb logic to be saying that some kid can come in and replace him. Won't get close to his output (even if Dal is off his usual high standard).

Just needs a kick up the arse. Is that done by dropping him? Starting him as sub?

 

[Defacto]

So he runs games out strongly? My point is that its dumb logic to be saying that some kid can come in and replace him. Won't get close to his output (even if Dal is off his usual high standard).

i agree that a kid wont replace him. having said that his attitude this year hasnt been up to the standard expected of a senior leader. cops the tag, goes into his shell and just goes through the motions. him coming into games might have something to do with the tag being shifted

 

[Kildonan]

I would be dropping Dal Santo. Too soft against the Swans. He should be getting contested possessions in the magoos. A kid for Dal Santo for sure against Collingwood. Let's skill up those who want to fight and want to win.

OUT: DAL SANTO
IN: NEWNES

Now that BJ is gone. Dal needs to learn what it's like to cop a tag. Give a kid a go until he understands.

Why does this even come up. If Dal Santo (who I thought was OK with a slightly different role) is getting tagged - and still gets 21 possessions and lays 6 tackles - then someone else is free?

Exactly Squizzy.

This might sound snarky or sarcastic but I have a point to make
The opposition select out our most damaging player/s and tag them. Using CTD's logic we drop our best player/s because they are tagged and their performance drops.
Next week the opposition select out our next most damaging player/s and tag them. We should drop these guys also.
Within a short while our team will lack anybody worth tagging therefore all players performances will be unaffected, but our team will be smashed.
Our contested possessions, tackles and 1%ers would drop off to zero.

One thing our kids need to learn is how to help out a team mate who is being tagged, the tactics of blocking the tagger without making it obvious, or taking advantage of the team mate who is being double teamed by taking advantage of the numerical disparity and hurting them with it.