Selfishness starting to appear?

[regpies]

With what has happened with Leon, Toovey, Krakouer's manager saying he is worth 500k, Daisy took a while to sign and Pendlebury signing a 1yr extension it looks like it will all blow up at the end of next year.

It looks a bit selfish when you compare what happened at the Lions where they all took pay cuts to stay together and Geelong where they are all earning below market value.

Can't blame people for wanting to earn as much money as they can, but I'm starting to think we could end up like Essendon after 2001 instead of being a dominate team we could be over a few years.

Anyone else thinking the same?

 

[Adz]

This is simply why we must win next year before a potential exodus occurs.

 

[PieLebo87]

Not really, the main concern is the fact that they play for Collingwood, which heightens their values. These players will believe they're worth this much, when in actual fact, they aren't. When it comes to the crunch, ala Toovey, reality hits home.

 

[JonoNash]

You really have to admire Geelong & in particular, Jimmy Bartel, Joel Corey & Corey Enright. Brian Cook was on MMM weeks ago stating that Enright was on $350 K year & Corey $300 K year. Bartel, who is also a top 20 player had been on below market rates for years.

Maybe Toovey & Leon can take a leaf out of their books.

A lot of player managers of Collingwood players have traded on our salary cap this year.

 

[half_back_flank]

What about Swan, Dawes and Cloke who have taken under market value.

Geelong still lost Ablett (unfair example given Geelong or any other team besides GC could offer that much), Mumford, Laidler and Prismall.

 

[Happy Pie]

Seems to me Pendlebury is most selfish, even after he signed, be it 1 year all he was talking about more money under bargaining agreeement, Thomas not far behind but not as selfish as Pendlebury. Cloke, Swan and Dawes all could have got more but put club first.....i just hope the loss of Leon will allow us keep McCaffer.

 

[Frankie23]

What about Swan, Dawes and Cloke who have taken under market value.

Geelong still lost Ablett (unfair example given Geelong or any other team besides GC could offer that much), Mumford, Laidler and Prismall.

Well put, naturally team success appeals to some, whilst chasing money appeals to others...

Whilst i would always choose premierships as many others would, you can't blame someone accepting a lot of money elsewhere that would set up their life post football.

We will loose players i.e Davis, but as long as the core sticks together, we shall be fine!

 

[jonbe54]

With what has happened with Leon, Toovey, Krakouer's manager saying he is worth 500k, Daisy took a while to sign and Pendlebury signing a 1yr extension it looks like it will all blow up at the end of next year.

It looks a bit selfish when you compare what happened at the Lions where they all took pay cuts to stay together and Geelong where they are all earning below market value.

Can't blame people for wanting to earn as much money as they can, but I'm starting to think we could end up like Essendon after 2001 instead of being a dominate team we could be over a few years.

Anyone else thinking the same?

It's selfish to expect a player with a young family to accept significantly less than market value whilst working in a high risk industry.

It's selfish to expect a player to live on the other side of the country when the bulk of their family is over 1,000 ks away for 12 years.

It's wonderful for players like Swan, Dawes et el to accept less than the market rate but NOT selfish for a player to want to set their young family up for life or to want to be with your family over the other side of the continent after 12 years.

Just a little bit of perspective here - put yourself in their positions.

If your boss come to you and offered to keep you on for the next 5 years but only if you signed a wages deal that was 20% less than the market rate and CAPPED at that for the 2 years would any of you accept it if you thought you could get a better offer, especially since you have a monster mortgage, 2 cars and 3 kids in private schools?

I'll bet my left marble you wouldn't.

Same goes for family - what would your reaction be if your boss told you to shift interstate away from your family for 12 years?

Would you be happy?

I bet you wouldn't.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Contract negotiations will be long forgotten once they get into preseason training with a full list.

 

[blaze036]

With what has happened with Leon, Toovey, Krakouer's manager saying he is worth 500k, Daisy took a while to sign and Pendlebury signing a 1yr extension it looks like it will all blow up at the end of next year.

It looks a bit selfish when you compare what happened at the Lions where they all took pay cuts to stay together and Geelong where they are all earning below market value.

Can't blame people for wanting to earn as much money as they can, but I'm starting to think we could end up like Essendon after 2001 instead of being a dominate team we could be over a few years.

Anyone else thinking the same?

Leon just wants to go home for family reasons. U say daisy taking a while to sign is a mark of selfishness? rofl? he signed for 500k less than what he could of at GWS.

Dawes Thomas have already publicy taken big pay cuts, and i can bet u my house many many other players have taken pay cuts to stay at pies.

The only instances of "selfishness" you could find would be toovey wanting decent pay and Pendlebury taking a 1 year extension onto his contract, both pretty flimsy as Pendlebury will likely re sign with us next year for well below other offers, and Toovey has decided to sign on with the club.

 

[Happy Pie]

It's selfish to expect a player with a young family to accept significantly less than market value whilst working in a high risk industry.

It's selfish to expect a player to live on the other side of the country when the bulk of their family is over 1,000 ks away for 12 years.

It's wonderful for players like Swan, Dawes et el to accept less than the market rate but NOT selfish for a player to want to set their young family up for life or to want to be with your family over the other side of the continent after 12 years.

Just a little bit of perspective here - put yourself in their positions.

If your boss come to you and offered to keep you on for the next 5 years but only if you signed a wages deal that was 20% less than the market rate and CAPPED at that for the 2 years would any of you accept it if you thought you could get a better offer, especially since you have a monster mortgage, 2 cars and 3 kids in private schools?

I'll bet my left marble you wouldn't.

Same goes for family - what would your reaction be if your boss told you to shift interstate away from your family for 12 years?

Would you be happy?

I bet you wouldn't.

I think Davis is not the one considered selfish here, he is a victim of 1 or 2 selfish players that do not have a young family..as for Davis pies paid him well for 12 years even when he could have easily been delisted for pathetic finals performances, really only played well last 3-4 years

 

[Zahki]

Staying to win premierships is good in theory but it only matters if you actually win them. Since we fell short this year it's not surprising players are looking after themselves, if we got over the line I think Davis and Toovey would've been far happier taking unders to stay at the club.

 

[Happy Pie]

Staying to win premierships is good in theory but it only matters if you actually win them. Since we fell short this year it's not surprising players are looking after themselves, if we got over the line I think Davis and Toovey would've been far happier taking unders to stay at the club.

For the record Toovey is happy now, i feel sorry for McCaffer and hope he can stay now Davis is gone

 

[Legendary Soundpost]

With what has happened with Leon, Toovey, Krakouer's manager saying he is worth 500k, Daisy took a while to sign and Pendlebury signing a 1yr extension it looks like it will all blow up at the end of next year.

It looks a bit selfish when you compare what happened at the Lions where they all took pay cuts to stay together and Geelong where they are all earning below market value.

Can't blame people for wanting to earn as much money as they can, but I'm starting to think we could end up like Essendon after 2001 instead of being a dominate team we could be over a few years.

Anyone else thinking the same?

Don't think it's selfishness, just market value at a successful club.

Like you say, I can see direct parallels to us from 2001. Most of the players we lost then were second rung players (Caracella, Heffernan, Blumfield, Moorcroft and Hardwicke), but they are the ones that help you build success.

While you guys are the mortal enemy I would hate to see you lose some of your talent to GC or GWS.

 

[Wokko]

Don't think it's selfishness, just market value at a successful club.

Like you say, I can see direct parallels to us from 2001. Most of the players we lost then were second rung players (Caracella, Heffernan, Blumfield, Moorcroft and Hardwicke), but they are the ones that help you build success.

While you guys are the mortal enemy I would hate to see you lose some of your talent to GC or GWS.

I came here to mention Essendon '01, but you summed it up beautifully. I think losing the GF also takes the shine off "take pay cut for success", although Geelong were close knit enough in '08 and won it the next year.

 

[Hva sher a]

You really have to admire Geelong & in particular, Jimmy Bartel, Joel Corey & Corey Enright. Brian Cook was on MMM weeks ago stating that Enright was on $350 K year & Corey $300 K year. Bartel, who is also a top 20 player had been on below market rates for years.

.

things are cheaper down here in Geelong Its easier to make the transition from growing up in Bendigo (eg Selwood) than moving to the big heat of Melbourne esp for a club like CFC

And Bartel is a local boy.

One of the things that astonished me when I moved to Geelong was how normal players lives were. They weren't mobbed or stared at - they were just part of the furniture. Yes they are hero worshipped by the local media and the fans love them but generally they are left alone.

If I were a player, I'd be happy to be drafted by Geelong.

 

[regpies]

I think Toovey only signed because no other club wanted him, the same could happen with Leon. If he just said I want to go home, I'd say fine, but to complain about money is a bit ordinary after how we stuck with him when many clubs would've dropped him long ago.

I've been impressed with Dawes, Swan and eventually Daisy.

Obviously anyone in their regular job would move for more money but footy is a bit different, the aim is premierships and we are in the middle of a successful period, I would think players would accept a bit less during this period then chase the money after.

There's no doubt we will lose players, I just think the way Leon and Toovey went about it isnt great compared to how Brisbane and Geelong handled their negotiations.

 

[Legendary Soundpost]

I came here to mention Essendon '01, but you summed it up beautifully. I think losing the GF also takes the shine off "take pay cut for success", although Geelong were close knit enough in '08 and won it the next year.

Valid point there. I think our problems in 2001 were happening before the loss to Brisbane though, but you losing this year's GF wouldn't help. Player managers love to jump on that **** during negotiations.

I don't know what the current contract status is with most Collingwood players, but if you lost, for example, Beams, Sidebottom, Blair, Fasolo and Reid next year, I reckon that would set you back 5 years. As I said, let's hope they don't end up at the plastic franchises up north.

 

[Axl the great]

It's selfish to expect a player with a young family to accept significantly less than market value whilst working in a high risk industry.

It's selfish to expect a player to live on the other side of the country when the bulk of their family is over 1,000 ks away for 12 years.

It's wonderful for players like Swan, Dawes et el to accept less than the market rate but NOT selfish for a player to want to set their young family up for life or to want to be with your family over the other side of the continent after 12 years.

Just a little bit of perspective here - put yourself in their positions.

If your boss come to you and offered to keep you on for the next 5 years but only if you signed a wages deal that was 20% less than the market rate and CAPPED at that for the 2 years would any of you accept it if you thought you could get a better offer, especially since you have a monster mortgage, 2 cars and 3 kids in private schools?

I'll bet my left marble you wouldn't.

Same goes for family - what would your reaction be if your boss told you to shift interstate away from your family for 12 years?

Would you be happy?

I bet you wouldn't.

What Rot!

If money was the issue with Davis and not home sickness he would have demanded a deal earlier for his young family, you cannot umm and ahhh about your future at the club until every other player is signed and then say "right i have decided to stay and i want this much".

Davis may well have been offered a dud deal but being basically the last player to be signed what did he expect? it is first in best dressed to an extent, and you cant compare what companies can offer employees as there is no salary cap in most cases only wage budgets that are usually blown anyway in anticipation of success for the company.

If anyone should feel insulted it should be blokes like Dawes who gave up about 200k per year to stay.

I know Leon is away from home but hey welcome to AFL football, and i hardly think the bloke and his family are on the breadline TBH.

 

[Ed D]

I don't think players have been selfish. Toovey's negotiations were pretty poor but you get the feeling he wasn't going to leave, apart from that the rest have gone well enough. I don't know the full storey behind Leon but it sounds more like homesickness to me.

Selfishness to me would mean players trying to get more than their worth, or leaving the club for huge contracts elsewhere. Really, all our star players could get better contracts at other clubs, I'd say most would be getting paid under the market rate.

 

[Swooop]

I don't think players have been selfish. Toovey's negotiations were pretty poor but you get the feeling he wasn't going to leave, apart from that the rest have gone well enough. I don't know the full storey behind Leon but it sounds more like homesickness to me.

Selfishness to me would mean players trying to get more than their worth, or leaving the club for huge contracts elsewhere. Really, all our star players could get better contracts at other clubs, I'd say most would be getting paid under the market rate.

There's certainly examples of unselfishness with Dawes being the best example, also Trav I think was right up there.

Other's less so, but we live in inflationary times with GC and GWS and also player managers all trying to make a name for themselves, by getting the best deals for their clients.

I think Geelong have really shown the way, as a team, above all others in recent times, committing to the team cause and have been handsomely rewarded.

Though I do think we aren't too far behind at all ...

 

[jonbe54]

What Rot!

If money was the issue with Davis and not home sickness he would have demanded a deal earlier for his young family, you cannot umm and ahhh about your future at the club until every other player is signed and then say "right i have decided to stay and i want this much".

Davis may well have been offered a dud deal but being basically the last player to be signed what did he expect? it is first in best dressed to an extent, and you cant compare what companies can offer employees as there is no salary cap in most cases only wage budgets that are usually blown anyway in anticipation of success for the company.

If anyone should feel insulted it should be blokes like Dawes who gave up about 200k per year to stay.

I know Leon is away from home but hey welcome to AFL football, and i hardly think the bloke and his family are on the breadline TBH.

Rubbish Dawes has a lucrative career after football already lined up.

If Leon is out of contract and wants to stay at home what right do you or anyone else have to say that he is insulting anyone?

The club has done well by him and he has reciprocated with 12 years faithful service, if he wants to call it a day that's HIS call.

 

[Markfs]

Always nice to hear from a new Collingwood supporter.... interesting that you've chosen such a peculiar topic as your first post...very strange..

but keep up the good work..

 

[regpies]

Always nice to hear from a new Collingwood supporter.... interesting that you've chosen such a peculiar topic as your first post...very strange..

but keep up the good work..

Not a new supporter, just new to the board, long time supporter that's put up with the bad and doesn't want to see us ruin a golden opportunity to dominate by players leaving for a bit more money rather than success.

 

[daics cousin]

Yes this is interesting,players do get money hungry.....Why ?

Cos they haven't worked normal jobs which pay an average of 50k per year.They find the cold hard reality when they step out of football then find it hard to assimulate especially, if they have blown all their money they have earned or are not intelligent enough to make it in a normal job after footy.

The thing is that if a club is in the middle of a succesful period of success becuase of salary constraints players have to take pay cuts in order for the group to have susatined success.Look at the cats, that core stuck together,took pay cuts and 3 flags in 5 yaers is the result.

Now if players then retire they are sort after,and many clubs chase their expertise as assistant coaches becuase they are ex premiership players,and have come from a winning culture.

Take leon as an example,He has played all his senior footy at the pies,has our club looked after him when he wasn't producing YES

Has leon come to the party now when the club has asked for a favour,ie take a pay cut to stay together ........NO

He simply packed up and pity he couldn;t accept 250k instead of 350k

250K is a lot of money .See how he feels soon when he is earning 50k and becomes a fogotten man of footy.

Marty Clarke is an intersting one.Played with the pies a few years ago,was earning decent coin,then became a sook and went back to Ireland.
To find out that they only pay in bags of potatoes.
Well as soon as Mick left he back on the plane to collingwood begging for another chance.Has the club let him down.Abnsolutely NOT.

Let's hope this time around he doesn't let the club down!