Sep 11, 2001. Respects thread

[Spiderman]

My thoughts & prayers are with all concerned in relation to this devastating event.

s

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by Spiderman
My thoughts & prayers are with all concerned in relation to this devastating event.

I have an appropriate picture that I would like to put in this message, could I please send it to someone here to put in a http page to link? PM me.

s

Yep same goes for me. An absolute tragedy.

 

[Zeke]

September 11? Pfft.

Millions of inncoent Cambodians have died in the last 25 years... Got a thought or prayer for them?

 

[Mobbs]

Originally posted by Zeke
September 11? Pfft.

Millions of inncoent Cambodians have died in the last 25 years... Got a thought or prayer for them?

Yeah I do, actually. And for the tibetan population ... and for others around the world who suffer in any way at all, actually ( www.thehungersite.com is a handy place to help in some cases. My wife has the details for helping the Tibetan folk, don't have it with me here atm ).

So therefore I'm sure you wouldn't begrudge me a prayer and a thought for the direct and indirect victims of September 11, eh?

Also with a step-daughter in LA and my wife having friends back in the states, considering that at the time no-one knew if there were more attacks on the way, then a prayer and thought is probably the very least I could feel comfortable getting away with doing.

So then additionally, you might even understand that "pffft" doesn't sound entirely appropriate to me, either.

if you concede those two points, then I'm happy to concede that your dismissing wasn't intended to be directed as such folk as those in my circumstances, and that your point isn't lost on me, and his merit, if stated in an overly generalistic sense. I will also concede that this reply is partly formatted to put you on the spot a bit, as well as address the subject itself.

Deal?

 

[Zeke]

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer
Yeah I do, actually. And for the tibetan population ... and for others around the world who suffer in any way at all, actually ( www.thehungersite.com is a handy place to help in some cases. My wife has the details for helping the Tibetan folk, don't have it with me here atm ).

So therefore I'm sure you wouldn't begrudge me a prayer and a thought for the direct and indirect victims of September 11, eh?

Also with a step-daughter in LA and my wife having friends back in the states, considering that at the time no-one knew if there were more attacks on the way, then a prayer and thought is probably the very least I could feel comfortable getting away with doing.

So then additionally, you might even understand that "pffft" doesn't sound entirely appropriate to me, either.

if you concede those two points, then I'm happy to concede that your dismissing wasn't intended to be directed as such folk as those in my circumstances, and that your point isn't lost on me, and his merit, if stated in an overly generalistic sense. I will also concede that this reply is partly formatted to put you on the spot a bit, as well as address the subject itself.

Deal?

Deal. The pfft, is more an outward expression of in inner frustration that is caused by the media's ability to choose what is an important issue and what is not.

I have family in New York City myself.

I am constantly amazed by the hysteria and frenzy that an event such as September 11 can stir up - now 2 years after the event. I struggle to reconcile that it is a more 'important' event to remember than the anonymous millions that die every year without any media coverage, without any rememberance service or without ever having had the chance to live a free life in the first place.

I don't for one minute assume to downplay the way such events impact the lives of people, and I don't pretend to understand the implications associated.

On the whole patriotism sickens me. We are all members of humanity, which is not distinguished by race, religion or creed - and yet we treat offenses against our precious western world as acts of evil which require vengeance. We stick up for ourselves particularly well, but stick up for others, not.

 

[Mobbs]

Originally posted by Zeke
On the whole patriotism sickens me. We are all members of humanity, which is not distinguished by race, religion or creed - and yet we treat offenses against our precious western world as acts of evil which require vengeance. We stick up for ourselves particularly well, but stick up for others, not.

I'm the first to admit guilt here. "Charity begins at home" was drilled into me from an early age. But I've definitely tamed on that front to a great extent.

No-one's fully innocent though. It's not like Western Civilisation are the only ever wrongdoers.

Anyway, yeah, there'll probably be a candle lit on the 11th at home. No worries.

 

[Docker_Brat]

Originally posted by Zeke
September 11? Pfft.

Millions of inncoent Cambodians have died in the last 25 years... Got a thought or prayer for them?

Did you happen to catch The Trials of Henry Kissinger on SBS the other night?

Plenty of innocent civilians have died at the hands of Americans. All of these deaths are tragic, I still cannot understand why the ones who died in New York deserve more respect.

 

[sandeano]

Originally posted by Docker_Brat
Did you happen to catch The Trials of Henry Kissinger on SBS the other night?

Plenty of innocent civilians have died at the hands of Americans. All of these deaths are tragic, I still cannot understand why the ones who died in New York deserve more respect.

If a tree falls in a forest and nobody sees it or hears it, does it really fall?

 

[jefffff34]

Originally posted by sandeano
If a tree falls in a forest and nobody sees it or hears it, does it really fall?

Well yes because if you have a walk through that forest and there is a tree lying down it must have fallen.

It's common sense.

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by sandeano
If a tree falls in a forest and nobody sees it or hears it, does it really fall?

yes

 

[Mobbs]

Well yeah but plenty of innocent civilians have died at the hands of Cambodians, too.

One extreme to the other.

But its an easy way to avoid showing any compassion at all, I suppose ... so why fight it.

 

[Mobbs]

Originally posted by sandeano
If a tree falls in a forest and nobody sees it or hears it, does it really fall?

Yeah the others are right about the tree ... as you can see above where I have highlighted that it was already given fact that the tree did fall ... it is henceforth a given that the tree fell.

 

[sandeano]

Originally posted by Hoggy
Well yes because if you have a walk through that forest and there is a tree lying down it must have fallen.

It's common sense.

True, Richmond's tall timber was unsighted for a lot of this year and everyone was aware they had fallen.

Seriously though, a hell of a lot of Cambodians simply vanished never to be seen again. Because we here in the West saw little footage of such incidents and on-the-spot details were sketchy at the time the impact upon us was minimal.

You see live footage of planes crashing into buildings and then see those building collapse to the ground and the effect is seared onto your consciousness forever.

 

[Zeke]

Originally posted by sandeano
You see live footage of planes crashing into buildings and then see those building collapse to the ground and the effect is seared onto your consciousness forever.

Exactly. The media's role in prioritising global events is disturbing.

 

[Docker_Brat]

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer
But its an easy way to avoid showing any compassion at all, I suppose ... so why fight it.

You're so judgemental. Plenty of compassion was felt fo the victims and their families at the time, it was a horrifying tragedy. But I don't see why I have to get on my knees and sob on an annual basis for this, there have been far bigger tragedies in human existence. I think I have had a gutful of this "American lives are so much more important than anyone elses" attitude.

 

[Blondie]

I think David Cross, US comedian sums it up brilliantly. An excerpt:

Has that flag-waving, cheer leading, rah rah bullsh*t stopped, or died down at all? Really? It’s still going? What a bummer that sh*t is…

Yeah, I mean I get it… like, the first week. Especially when there was still firemen around, so you can wave it at the fireman. But after like four months, and you see these trophy wives with their $80,000 Lexus SUV’s driving around with a flag, I’m like “Shut the f*ck up. Stop it. You’re just encouraging more bombs. Stop it. It doesn’t mean anything to you, it’s just a completely empty gesture”

Ask them: “What does that mean to you?”
“It means United We Stand”
“Ah, yeah, I read the bumper sticker. What does it mean to you?”
“It means These Colors Do Not Run”

They are just part of a club. They’re just excited to be a part of the flag waving club on their street. “Look, we’re all waving flags!” “Flags, Hurray!”

It’s such an empty gesture, it’s so full of crass commercialization. Like, you know, 24 hours after those buildings went down, people all over the country were going “Ha, ha, I own a flag company! Hello Ribbon Money! Hello Flag Money!” It was like 3 days later where you couldn’t turn on the tv without seeing a f*cking informercial for “The Freedom Kit – 12 different sized flags you can stick everywhere. The Freedom Kit for $14.99. And upgrade for $10 and get The Patriot Pack. 10 different flags, 10 more flags. 10 Bigger sized flags. Be a Better Patriot than the people with a Freedom Kit. Outdo your neighbours in patriotism; Let them know you’re better than the Freedom Kit people. 27 different flags – stick em on your car, stick em on your windows, stick em in your office, stick em on your cubicle. F*cking shove em up your ass. Special flags to shove up your ass whilst you’re sleeping. No reason not to be a patriot when you’re asleep! Come on, don’t let those terrorists win!”

 

[sandeano]

Originally posted by Zeke
Exactly. The media's role in prioritising global events is disturbing.

True, but the public is just as much to blame. The "live from New York memorial concert" or whatever is going to rate a hell of a lot better than John Pilger revisiting Cambodia.

 

[Zeke]

Originally posted by sandeano
True, but the public is just as much to blame. The "live from New York memorial concert" or whatever is going to rate a hell of a lot better than John Pilger revisiting Cambodia.

Sad but true.

 

[Mobbs]

Originally posted by Docker_Brat
You're so judgemental.

Classic!

But anyway ... I'm probably being reactive ... nevertheless :

Originally posted by Docker_Brat
Plenty of compassion was felt fo the victims and their families at the time, it was a horrifying tragedy. But I don't see why I have to get on my knees and sob on an annual basis for this, there have been far bigger tragedies in human existence. I think I have had a gutful of this "American lives are so much more important than anyone elses" attitude.

No-one's asking you to get on you knees and sob, DB (or at least I'm not, can't speak for others). If those who were resistant to validating the Sep11 tragedy were also resistant to validating the other non-western tragedies around the world, I'd say good luck to them.

But off we go again blaming the media etc. And people turn up NOW, when someone's mentioned Sep11, to bring up 'competing' tragedies (eg many million Cambodian losses). If they ever brought it up at any other time. People are as much to blame. (I'm not innocent of this, I'm quite aware of the Tibetan issue and don't spruik about it nearly enough).

So here's the bit that gets my goat :
- Up comes a Sep11 anniversary. Someone mentions it might be nice to pay a moment of thought.
- An alternative argument is presented, saying, well there's been worse things, and for pretty poor reasons the majority don't pay to match heed to those.
- We have an argument, it subsides.
- A year passes during which nobody ever mentions the tragic events substantiating the 'alternative argument' at any stage.
- Back we come to Sep11, and off we go again.

It's hard to believe that the opposers actually give a sweet peppered and marinated flying grotty about any other tragic event. It looks more like 'bashing'.

-----------

Side note re comparative exposure : If I and a close mate had both our Dads die at the same time, I'd be sadder about the death of my Dad than the death of his Dad. It's something borne of familiarity and sharing.

Same happens with the Western world/non western world tragedy issue. Let's face it, we're in the western world. Sep11 affected a more familiar place in relation to our own part of the world. You, I or the bloke over there may not be from a Western background, but we are living in the western world.

 

[the fly]

Wasn't the Chilean Revolution on Sept 11?

 

[Mobbs]

Originally posted by the fly
Wasn't the Chilean Revolution on Sept 11?

There was another major something or other that happened on Sep 11 but I can't remember which one ... Chile rings a bell, though.

 

[sandeano]

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer
There was another major something or other that happened on Sep 11 but I can't remember which one ... Chile rings a bell, though.

Not the revolution, but the American backed ousting of the popular Salvador Allende. His replacement was the evil Augusto Pinochet, with thousands dead during his reign and the country reduced to an economic backwater.

 

[carn_the_nmfc]

To those who don't give a flying f... about the September 11, 2001 attacks you are pathetic.

This Thursday is the 2nd anniversary of the terrorist attacks on the Twin Towers.
A lot of ppl died in that act of terrorism.
Whenever you hear the Black Eyed Peas song "Where is the love?" it is actually to do with the terrorist attacks two years ago.

I know that I will be praying for those who lost family members over in NY.

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by goaldrush
To those who don't give a flying f... about the September 11, 2001 attacks you are pathetic.

Very few people would say that they don't care about them

Some are just saying that the attention that they are given does not make rational sense when you think about the number of innocent deaths that are ignored.

Sad fact is that in the Western World, a white death means far more than a non white death.

There is a brilliant episode of the West Wing on that very topic.

 

[Mobbs]

Originally posted by Jars458
Very few people would say that they don't care about them

Some are just saying that the attention that they are given does not make rational sense when you think about the number of innocent deaths that are ignored.

Yeah, exactly. Well said, Jars.