News Setanta back at training

[THE AISSASSIN]

I am sorry but there are no mitigating circumstances in mindless violence. We don't accept "he hit me first" as a defense at the tribunal and nor should we. Nor do we accept it in our criminal courts. The act was wrong, all at the club admitted it was wrong but the penalty does not match the rhetoric. Ratts said it was a low act. Is 11 days being ostracized from the club really the penalty for "a low act"? (My disappointment is with the club imposed penalty and I feel it should have more closely reflected what the AFL imposed and community standards in general.)

Anyway, I have made my disappointment known, I fully support the clubs right to apply the sanctions it sees fit and once they have done that, I respect the decision and I move on. If anything my voicing of my disappointment at the appropriateness of the sanction, in light of my posts on supporting the clubs selection committee show I dont have "blind faith" and that whilst I support the club and the players, I dont think we should suspend our morals or judgment just because of loyalty to the club.

And EBIAC, I am sure you are right but I am not sure that having the approval of other, mostly young people that might not yet understand that such behavior does not reflect community standards any more is a good or positive thing. Club culture is one of the last cultures to be dragged into the 21st century.

There is much to support about club culture, team spirit, mateship, achievement, but there are also pitfalls in them. But lets not go there, we have so much to look forward to and this is just a minor hiccup. Perhaps Setanta is truly remorseful (I have no reason to doubt that he is) and it really was just a momentary lapse of reason and he is on the way to redemption. Who knows, more good than bad may come of it, he may grasp the final chance he has been given and shine, and be a shining example to others that find they have erred. I hope so.

Of course there are mitigating circumstances at the tribunal......does the Des Headland / Selwood incident ring a bell ?......and there wasnt even any corroborating evidence in that case and the allegation was denied by Selwood.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Even if Carlos had had a good excuse an intra-club match is not the venue to sort it out

 

[THE AISSASSIN]

Big A if I missed that or if you know something I do not please pm me
We came up with some good stories and I hope they are way off the mark!

Mate I got no idea what you know so I have no idea if I know anything different.

As with the Hammil discussion a few weeks back I prefer to keep any negativity quiet and private between those involved, and I dont want to come out with something re this unless I am 110% sure it is accurate which I am not.

 

[blue gunslinger]

I am a vault
Try me!

 

[THE AISSASSIN]

I am a vault
Try me!

The most common line used by ppl on this earth is "you can trust me, I wont tell anyone"

Anyway...whether I trusted you or not I am also a vault...lets just leave it.

 

[blue gunslinger]

So I shouldn't have told anyone about your genital herpes is that what you are saying?

 

[THE AISSASSIN]

So I shouldn't have told anyone about your genital herpes is that what you are saying?

I had my genitals removed long ago.....couldnt get into any pants let alone shorts whatsoever

 

[The Blueseum]

And if you've asked whether there is precedent for a suspension from an intra-club fracas, check this 1987 Ted Whitten article out:

http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-browse...rt_mode=created_desc&imageId=4841&scalesize=o

From the Blueseum

 

[coyler]

Setantas big brother Sean Og is interviewed in todays Irish Examiner about an unrelated matter - the Cork Hurlers Strike - he was also asked about Setanta and said that while there was no excuse and it was totally out of character he had been provoked. That he had wanted to put his side of the story at the time but had been advised to say nothing but that in time it would all come out.

 

[Blue_Ninja]

Thats good to know, thanks. There were rumours that it was provoked, I suppose this goes someway to confirm them.

 

[Blue Dimension]

Of course he was provoked he's not just going to randomly hit his teammate.

 

[Jock]

I hope they put a couple of random punching bags around the ground for when he next goes off tap.
I know he did the wrong thing but I can't help but like him.
He hates being beaten which I admire. His skill set doesn't match his will to win unfortunately. He's the opposite of my good friend Houlihan.
I can't help think in those losing sides his determination and the fact that he just kept trying didn't go to waste and rubbed off on some of our youngsters. I love any player in a blue jumper that is trying his arse off at the 20 minute mark of the last quarter no matter how far we are down.
They are doing the jumper proud to the end and enjoy my full support.

 

[Shambolic]

"I bet you can't get your foot up my arse!"

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

I hope they put a couple of random punching bags around the ground for when he next goes off tap.
I know he did the wrong thing but I can't help but like him.
He hates being beaten which I admire. His skill set doesn't match his will to win unfortunately. He's the opposite of my good friend Houlihan.
I can't help think in those losing sides his determination and the fact that he just kept trying didn't go to waste and rubbed off on some of our youngsters. I love any player in a blue jumper that is trying his arse off at the 20 minute mark of the last quarter no matter how far we are down.
They are doing the jumper proud to the end and enjoy my full support.

Hates being beaten?

.. or hates derogatory remarks being said about his brother and mother?

 

[Rambo Stallone]

11 days. That's some powerful witchcraft that Martin has potions for. Not long enough for mine. There have been comments such as these things have been happening for 100 years etc, but the game is not the same. We dont accept mindless violence in our game anymore and whilst I accept he will stay with the club, 11 days is not long enough for mine. The message this sends is there really arent any real consequences, miss a few pre season games, cop a bit of grief in the daily's and have 2 weeks off and all is forgiven. Not good enough Blues, I am a bit disappointed today. I have been a strong advocate on this board for backing he club, and I do, but I would have been happier if Carlos spent another 2 or 3 weeks in therapy. But there you go, fast food, fast cars and fast cures.

That's great,the season is about to start and you want our own players being suspended a lot more because he lost his head for a second when everything now fixed up.

The fight was probably the best thing for the club since 2001 you will see,not including our number 1 picks and Judd,who knows this could lead us to having a great season.

I'm saying the fight is telling us that players are hungry to make it,they getting a bit harder.

The guys are going at it hard,sometimes a bit of hardness arms and legs are all over the place and you get winded and then you lose your head,get frustrated but you don't mean it.

I reckon the club should ban all members and cameras when training or playing a practice game when playing against each other in my opinion. I say this because some will talk too much on a incident when they see it, when the club can deal with it,not Demetriou or any other.

 

[40yearBLUE]

That's great,the season is about to start and you want our own players being suspended a lot more because he lost his head for a second when everything now fixed up.

The fight was probably the best thing for the club since 2001 you will see,not including our number 1 picks and Judd,who knows this could lead us to having a great season.

I'm saying the fight is telling us that players are hungry to make it,they getting a bit harder.

The guys are going at it hard,sometimes a bit of hardness arms and legs are all over the place and you get winded and then you lose your head,get frustrated but you don't mean it.

I reckon the club should ban all members and cameras when training or playing a practice game when playing against each other in my opinion. I say this because some will talk too much on a incident when they see it, when the club can deal with it,not Demetriou or any other.

You either have a code of ethics or you dont. You cant switch them on and off when it suits you or if a penalty for an infraction is inconvenient for us. If you dont stamp on ill discipline within the club at every instant how can you expect players to know if or when such action is appropriate or not, it is either inappropriate (which hitting anyone in such a manner is) or it is not (I accept that some controlled aggression is acceptable within context, but other aggressive behavior is unacceptable no matter the context) and the club has a duty of care to our players, opposition players and the community in general to teach our players what is and is not acceptable and sanctions are one of the tools they must use at times.

Closed sessions should not matter, if those things happened in a closed session I would hope the club would act in exactly the same way, it is not the publicity that makes an act wrong, it is the act itself. And no matter the provocation, accidental arms and legs or intentional, you cant have players "losing their head for a second". What if the player "lost his head for a second" in a prelim final, because each time he "lost his head for a second" he did not face a severe penalty, he would not know any better and we could lose an important player because we as a club also lacked the internal discipline when it suited us.

And it is not just a matter of whether something is inappropriate or not, it is where the boundaries are drawn and what the club stands for and allowing someone to get away with a lighter penalty because the season is nearly here sends a poor message of what the club stands for.

Fortunately for our game we have had a 20 year campaign to stamp out thuggery. If you dont beleive that, go look at some video of some of the violence that was celebrated in some highlight packages usually with moronic names like "biff, bumps and whacks". Some people still yearn for those days, I for one dont.

Rules are rules and have to be obeyed by the players and the club has to enforce that set of ethics without fear or favor. IMO the club had some tough talk on the day, then imposed an appropriate sanction and has somewhat softened that stance. I would have been happier had our sanction lasted at least as long as the AFL imposed one, so as to say to the world, we at Carlton have had some poor ethics in the past but we have drawn our line in the sand and we wont be crossing it.

 

[40yearBLUE]

30yearblue: You are absolutely right. Do the crime do the time.
Question is: Why do I feel so sorry for this giant with the sad eyes?

I love the guy too. I love his spirit and what he brings to every game, and I also beleive we need intimidating players in our line up, players that throw thier weight around legally.

But unfortunately for Carlos IMO the club is always bigger than any single player. I really do hope he reforms and breaks back into the team, but I would have preferred he not be welcome back until the 4 match sanction is served (and maybe longer) for the overall message is says about our club. Mens sana in corpore sano. For those that dont know, it translates to healthy mind healthy body. For me the healthy mind means healthy ethics. In order to have healthy ethics we have to walk the walk.

 

[4QTR BLUES]

You either have a code of ethics or you dont. You cant switch them on and off when it suits you or if a penalty for an infraction is inconvenient for us. If you dont stamp on ill discipline within the club at every instant how can you expect players to know if or when such action is appropriate or not, it is either inappropriate (which hitting anyone in such a manner is) or it is not (I accept that some controlled aggression is acceptable within context, but other aggressive behavior is unacceptable no matter the context) and the club has a duty of care to our players, opposition players and the community in general to teach our players what is and is not acceptable and sanctions are one of the tools they must use at times.

Closed sessions should not matter, if those things happened in a closed session I would hope the club would act in exactly the same way, it is not the publicity that makes an act wrong, it is the act itself. And no matter the provocation, accidental arms and legs or intentional, you cant have players "losing their head for a second". What if the player "lost his head for a second" in a prelim final, because each time he "lost his head for a second" he did not face a severe penalty, he would not know any better and we could lose an important player because we as a club also lacked the internal discipline when it suited us.

And it is not just a matter of whether something is inappropriate or not, it is where the boundaries are drawn and what the club stands for and allowing someone to get away with a lighter penalty because the season is nearly here sends a poor message of what the club stands for.

Fortunately for our game we have had a 20 year campaign to stamp out thuggery. If you dont beleive that, go look at some video of some of the violence that was celebrated in some highlight packages usually with moronic names like "biff, bumps and whacks". Some people still yearn for those days, I for one dont.

Rules are rules and have to be obeyed by the players and the club has to enforce that set of ethics without fear or favor. IMO the club had some tough talk on the day, then imposed an appropriate sanction and has somewhat softened that stance. I would have been happier had our sanction lasted at least as long as the AFL imposed one, so as to say to the world, we at Carlton have had some poor ethics in the past but we have drawn our line in the sand and we wont be crossing it.

I'm normally nodding my head in agreement with your comments 30year but I think on this occassion you are wrong.

It may only be 11 days from the club but the consequences for the individual have been far more prejudicial.

As far as penalty is concerned he has received 4 matches from the AFL, the club has openly spoken that his behaviour is unacceptable, ostracized him from his peers and ensured he has undergone a psychological assessment.

Far more detrimental is his behaviour has been splashed across the world through the media.

The bloke lives out here without his family and for all most of us know a small network of friends.

Talk about ethics....well the club responded reasonably and now it is done and dusted.

Lets move on.

 

[40yearBLUE]

I'm normally nodding my head in agreement with your comments 30year but I think on this occassion you are wrong.

It may only be 11 days from the club but the consequences for the individual have been far more prejudicial.

As far as penalty is concerned he has received 4 matches from the AFL, the club has openly spoken that his behaviour is unacceptable, ostracized him from his peers and ensured he has undergone a psychological assessment.

Far more detrimental is his behaviour has been splashed across the world through the media.

The bloke lives out here without his family and for all most of us know a small network of friends.

Talk about ethics....well the club responded reasonably and now it is done and dusted.

Lets move on.

Fair enough 4QTR. One thing I believe I am unswervingly solid on is backing the club to know far better than I do. I fully accept that I am just another mug with an opinion.

The main thrust of the post you are responding to was to say that it is not the inconvenience to the club (ie season almost upon us, valued player, etc) that ought to speed his recovery or welcome him back into the fold but the seriousness of the charge and an appropriateness of the penalty regardless of what that costs us and or (something I did not mention but have thought more about since the post) however long his psychological recovery takes. And to that end Ratts and I am sure the medical staff and outside expert advise I am sure the club sought, say that getting him back into the main group is better for his recovery. And I accept this. I just wanted to voice an opinion that we stay vigilant so as not to let self interest blind us to the most ethical course because ultimately clubs that allow themselves to be shaken from their long term course in search or short term expediency live to regret it and the consequences. (Read WCE and the culture they seemed to ignore in search of September riches).

But I agree, time to move on, allow him to repent and recover, and I sincerly hope he overcomes and shines for us. The posts today are in responce to a post from Rambo today, which in turn were a response to posts I made some 10 days ago, so yes, well and truly time to move on now.