Shane O'Bree

[Palmer Stoat]

Judd, is a shit overhead mark, and his kicking doesn't even come close with the likes of Hodge and other superstar players in their bracket [ even before Judd's recent injury ] and yet, it is his speed and his ability to win the clearances, that makes him a valuable asset to West Coast.

Obree is even more valuable to us than Judd is to WC on the simple fact we dont have many players who can extract the ball. It's easy to point the finger at O'bree when we lose games - hes not the most naturally gifted player. Compare that to Leon Davis - who is probably our most skillful player, and people still want him traded because hes not consistent enough. Yes thats right - a small forward not consistent enough.

The way I see it is people just need someone to vent their frustration at when the team loses - they did it with Rhyce Shaw [ i was one of them ], they did it with Tarkyn Lockyer [ i always knew he was a star ], and now it seems even while we are winning - its Obree's and Ben Johnson's turn.

To be fair, Ben Johnson has been pretty disappointing this year. I think we're allowed to say that without being accused of scapegoating. As for Tarkyn, he's been great this year, terrific in fact, but let's not forget the years when he was pretty ordinary.

Also, at the risk of repeating myself, I haven't been pointing the finger at O'Bree. In fact, I've said that O'Bree is in our best 22, and I've acknowledged his importance in winning clearances. But he has significant weaknesses, and there's no point denying them.

While I agree that Judd is not the world's greatest kick, he's a much superior and more penetrating kick than O'Bree IMO, and in all honesty I don't think much insight can be gained by comparing the two -- they're too different.

 

[Pie eyed]

I really like the nickname Turtle..

Says it all..old, wise, tough and dependable but if you turn him over it takes a while to get back on his feet..

I like "Turtle" and he adds something to the Pies squad...couldn't quote stat to save my life but I reckon he makes a difference when he plays...probably a balance thing...all these superfast young blokes have their place but so do the old fell's...give hime due and give him respect.

 

[prO]

To be fair, Ben Johnson has been pretty disappointing this year. I think we're allowed to say that without being accused of scapegoating. As for Tarkyn, he's been great this year, terrific in fact, but let's not forget the years when he was pretty ordinary.

Also, at the risk of repeating myself, I haven't been pointing the finger at O'Bree. In fact, I've said that O'Bree is in our best 22, and I've acknowledged his importance in winning clearances. But he has significant weaknesses, and there's no point denying them.

While I agree that Judd is not the world's greatest kick, he's a much superior and more penetrating kick than O'Bree IMO, and in all honesty I don't think much insight can be gained by comparing the two -- they're too different.

While I have quoted you specifically, it wasn't directed at you specifically - more so towards those who are too narrow minded to see O'Bree's value. I used your post as a way to explain [a counter example of what youve written] of someone who is regarded as the best player in the comp - who seriously has deficiencies in their game like all players. I used another example in Leon Davis where people wanted him traded because he isnt consistent enough - yet if they looked at Davis objectively they would know that the small forward position is not a position where you can consistently make an impact week in week out.

As far as scapegoats are concerned - i seriously think that a lot of supporters don't look at players objectively because some are too attached to the outcome of each game and are influenced far too much on what they read in the paper.

Last but not least - Im not saying that Judd and Obree are similar players - they are only similar in their roles of getting the pill in contested situations.
Yet BOTH have deficiencies in their game - Judd cant mark overhead to save his life, and is not a great kick. And you don't see WC supporters asking him to be traded on the basis of his weaknesses - therefore why would Collingwood Supporters want Obree traded because of his disposal?

Answer is pretty basic: One is overrated by the media, the other is underrated.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

While I have quoted you specifically, it wasn't directed at you specifically - more so towards those who are too narrow minded to see O'Bree's value.

Fair enough. I thought you were responding directly to me.

Last but not least - Im not saying that Judd and Obree are similar players - they are only similar in their roles of getting the pill in contested situations.
Yet BOTH have deficiencies in their game - Judd cant mark overhead to save his life, and is not a great kick. And you don't see WC supporters asking him to be traded on the basis of his weaknesses - therefore why would Collingwood Supporters want Obree traded because of his disposal?

I'll take you up on this. First, I agree, trading O'Bree wouldn't make sense given our current list. More generally, though, with any player you've got to add up their weaknesses and balance them against their strengths. Now in Judd's case, his strengths far, far, far outweigh his weaknesses, which is why he's the best player in the comp, and that's also why sane WCE supporters would never support a trade. In O'Bree's case, it's stating the obvious to observe that his strengths don't outweigh his weaknesses to anything like the same degree as Judd's. That's why some Collingwood supporters would entertain a trade.

 

[prO]

Fair enough. I thought you were responding directly to me.

All good

Now in Judd's case, his strengths far, far, far outweigh his weaknesses, which is why he's the best player in the comp, and that's also why sane WCE supporters would never support a trade. In O'Bree's case, it's stating the obvious to observe that his strengths don't outweigh his weaknesses to anything like the same degree as Judd's. That's why some Collingwood supporters would entertain a trade.

On the contrary - Judds deficiencies in his game whether that be marking overhead and / or kicking are major weaknesses when you are talking about ANY AFL player let alone, the medias lovechild. [ hence the handball happy eagles ] <--My point being that people dont look at how he plays objectively, because if they did they wouldn't be calling him the best player in the league.

In the same manner that people choose to ignore his weaknesses and unequivocally believe that he is the best player in the AFL - people unequivocally believe that O'Bree is of no use to Collingwood and that he should be traded - when the facts state otherwise.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

All good




On the contrary - Judds deficiencies in his game whether that be marking overhead and / or kicking are major weaknesses when you are talking about ANY AFL player let alone, the medias lovechild. [ hence the handball happy eagles ] <--My point being that people dont look at how he plays objectively, because if they did they wouldn't be calling him the best player in the league.

In the same manner that people choose to ignore his weaknesses and unequivocally believe that he is the best player in the AFL - people unequivocally believe that O'Bree is of no use to Collingwood and that he should be traded - when the facts state otherwise.

Well, I'm one of the people who believes he's clearly the best player in the comp, so you and I are obviously on different pages when it comes to Judd. I don't ignore his weaknesses. I just don't think they're as significant as you do. A midfielder doesn't need to be a great overhead mark. I mean, it'd be a nice skill to have, but hardly mandatory for someone playing that role. His kicking is not A-grade, but IMO is far from bad.

I think you and I will have to fight an honourable draw on this subject, because I suspect we're not gonna be changing our thoughts any time soon.

 

[prO]

Its not an argument mate, nor am I trying to influence your opinion. Simply discussing Obree's perceived value at Collingwood and how others might buy into the negative hype. I dont require you to agree with me in order for my beliefs on O'bree to be validated

 

[toommy]

Let me get this straight... I wrote a post disagreeing with yours, and you reply by telling me to 'stick your stats' and 'get over it', but I started the abuse? Pull the other one.

I've seen you post in other threads, Toommy, and you can scarcely write a single post without calling other posters a 'clown' or something similarly insulting.

Well, that's fine. But if you're gonna dish it out, you should cop it sweet when it comes back at you.

End of discussion.

hardly personal insults

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Its not an argument mate, nor am I trying to influence your opinion. Simply discussing Obree's perceived value at Collingwood and how others might buy into the negative hype. I dont require you to agree with me in order for my beliefs on O'bree to be validated

Huh? Mate, I'm not attacking you. I was just putting a full stop to the discussion by saying I disagree with what you're saying, and that we'll just have to agree to disagree. That's all.

Anyway, peace.

 

[richardnose]

i reckon judd is every bit as good as his reputation. when he gives the ball off, it's always to the advantage of the player receiving. he has more awareness than others and seems to be a step ahead and creates a lot of plays that end in goals. a lot of other players will get possessions and give the ball to a player in a worse position. kane johnson comes to mind, i think.

 

[Chase the Ace]

Let me get this straight... I wrote a post disagreeing with yours, and you reply by telling me to 'stick your stats' and 'get over it', but I started the abuse? Pull the other one.

I've seen you post in other threads, Toommy, and you can scarcely write a single post without calling other posters a 'clown' or something similarly insulting.

Well, that's fine. But if you're gonna dish it out, you should cop it sweet when it comes back at you.

End of discussion.

I think he is really Murray using an alias