Sheldon V Stevens

[BlueFeaver]

Last night on SEN, Sheldon came out and agreed with most of our opinions considering the future of Nick Stevens. In his opinion the club should trade him at the end of the season.

There seemed to be a great deal of support for this on talk back both last night and this morning.

I know this has been done to death before, but inlight of a club legend, the super draft and Stevens current plight we should discuss it.

Should we trade Nick?
What would you trade Nick for?
What team would be best for Nick?
Do you think deep down Nick wants to be traded?
Is Nick right for our club at this time?
Is Nick worth his hefty salary?
Is he a good leader?
Will Nicks absence slow down our climb up the ladder?
As a Carlton supporter are you prepared for the short term loss for long term gain?
What are the benifits of him staying?
What team would benifit most with Nick Stevens on their list?

Both Ken and OX raised the point that we lost Campo for nothing and we should have probably traded him for anything, due to his contract expiring. Stevens still has a year to run on his contract, so now is the time to act, even if we have to pay a portion of his wage.

My poosibe trades:
Nick Stevens to Essendon with a exchange of draft picks.
Essendon recieve Nick Stevens and our No2 draft choice.
Carlton recieve Essendons No1 selection and 2 round draft choice.

another possibilty is a straght swap with Geelong for James Kelly.

I'll be completely honest and I'm sure you will all know my thoughts on Stevens future at our club. He must go, not jsut because this is the super draft but because he has a poor attitude and doesn't lead the younger guys the correctly. A huge reason StKilda wanted Hammil is the hunger and hardness that he possessed on the field, he lead the team from the front and ingrained a hard onfield work ethic. I will not sledge Stevens as a player as I honestly beleive he is a fantastic skilled athlete but at the moment I beleive he is not suited to where we are.

I will try and put together a profile of some description over the next 24 hours depending on my availibility.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Nick Stevens should not be traded.
Having said that, if a club offered a top10 pick in this years draft, I would consider it, but only for a top10 pick.
He was played out of position last week, is better than that, and is still a premier onballer.

 

[BlueFeaver]

Nick Stevens should not be traded.
Having said that, if a club offered a top10 pick in this years draft, I would consider it, but only for a top10 pick.
He was played out of position last week, is better than that, and is still a premier onballer.

I'm not talking about his performance last or the week before, I am using Nick Stevens as a package and the value he offers our club both now and in the future. There were murmours last year that Campo was less than helpful with the younger players, Stevens I know is good off field but onfield he has some fundemental bad habits that are filtering through the side.
I respect your opinion and your view is what this thread was about, but I ask you, What do you think Nick Steven brings to the Carlton FC?

 

[irish_setanta]

I'm not talking about his performance last or the week before, I am using Nick Stevens as a package and the value he offers our club both now and in the future. There were murmours last year that Campo was less than helpful with the younger players, Stevens I know is good off field but onfield he has some fundemental bad habits that are filtering through the side.
I respect your opinion and your view is what this thread was about, but I ask you, What do you think Nick Steven brings to the Carlton FC?

I dont think we should trade him, you always see him in the middle of the huddle giving advise, we lack leaders and stevens is a leader.

 

[Abers]

It worries me that Sheldon feels he can come out and say get as many kids as possible when his son is one of those kids under consideration. With the situation he finds himself this year would have been a good one to shut his mouth as he is not impartial to our draft stratergy.

 

[jj1978]

I think we should trade Stevens, BUT for another experienced midfielder.

He really is our only experienced midfielder with some talent left (notice the word experienced... 100+ games).

Our kids need some sort of general to help them, like Whitnall does for the back-line and Fev would do for the forward line.

 

[Mr.Kennedy]

Its a tough one.He is a good player.Remember his first year with us,those bullet passes he used to hit Fev with.He seems frustrated now,like he is tired of the way were performing.I dont like the way he has a go at others a lot of the time especially when its half his fault anyway.If we can get top 15 pick then trade but not for a mediocre player who we think we change his ways or something like that.If the club decide to offload him I hope its not to Pies were he originally wanted to go

 

[jj1978]

How about a trade for AKA and Brisbanes 2nd round pick?

Stephens prob has about 4-6 years left and AKA about 2-3 years.

Aka's demeanour on field is superb and he's professional about keeping his body in good shape and he trains really well.

Silence the tongue and it would be great to have him there.

3 premierships worth of experience, invaluable!

 

[BlueFeaver]

How about a trade for AKA and Brisbanes 2nd round pick?

Stephens prob has about 4-6 years left and AKA about 2-3 years.

Aka's demeanour on field is superb and he's professional about keeping his body in good shape and he trains really well.

Silence the tongue and it would be great to have him there.

3 premierships worth of experience, invaluable!

AKA is someone I didn't think about, the points you raise are valid and I think he would relish the challenge to teach the young kids.
I doubt it would happen though as he is probably to old.

 

[BlueFeaver]

Its a tough one.He is a good player.Remember his first year with us,those bullet passes he used to hit Fev with.He seems frustrated now,like he is tired of the way were performing.I dont like the way he has a go at others a lot of the time especially when its half his fault anyway.If we can get top 15 pick then trade but not for a mediocre player who we think we change his ways or something like that.If the club decide to offload him I hope its not to Pies were he originally wanted to go

I don't question his skill in that aspect of his game, his limitations are more on the defensive side of his game. I think Collingwood for the right price would jump at him, he is the exact type of player their midfield needs. One thing to take note of is we did get him for nothing, so relatively speaking any trade within reason would profit the club. I personelly feel that even a 2nd round selection in this years draft is worthy, but I would prefer to trade for a senior player in the mould of Kelly.

 

[SurreyBlue]

What do you think Nick Steven brings to the Carlton FC?

1. Midfield class
2. Midfield leadership/depth
3. Line breaking run.

All three we currently lack.

Now again, not saying we should not look at our alternatives, just don't be too hasty with our decisions. Ken Sheldon mentioned last night a high second round pick for him ...... I would say stick the second round pick where the sun don't shine Kenny.

 

[untapped]

I know this year's draft is strong but everyone seems to forget the most important thing about the draft. Its all about the potential for this kids to be something good. Not all handle the pressure or speed or physicality, or skill of the game. Its a big step. We are talking about a ready made player in particular a midfielder being traded for maybe a sporn? livo?
Stevens is a good onballer who is lacking support of other good onballers. He is someone who needs the space and time for him to grab a game and control it. It you start trading experience for picks you'll end up with a St. Kilda. Get talents who lack experienced game breakers. Think of some of the players they got rid of for their picks. Trade back one of these player and get ride of one of those kids and they would of had a cup by now.
There has to be balance, we need stevens body, and head

 

[WTTF]

Now again, not saying we should not look at our alternatives, just don't be too hasty with our decisions. Ken Sheldon mentioned last night a high second round pick for him ...... I would say stick the second round pick where the sun don't shine Kenny.

Totally agree Surrey.........unless the trade is slightly in our favour (ie between say pick 7-12), then forget about it.

 

[BlueFeaver]

1. Midfield class
2. Midfield leadership/depth
3. Line breaking run.

All three we currently lack.

Now again, not saying we should not look at our alternatives, just don't be too hasty with our decisions. Ken Sheldon mentioned last night a high second round pick for him ...... I would say stick the second round pick where the sun don't shine Kenny.

His skill level I don't doubt 95% of the time, his leadership is what I doubt and his run only goes one way. I know what your saying as at the moment he is the only players we have to fill this role. But, think of next year and the year after that, I can see the likes of Murphy, Simpson, Walker, Russell and Blackwell all overtaking him.

Stevens contract expires the end of next year, now based upon his performance and his leadership qualities would you pay him 500k a year.
Take into consideration once his contract expires we loose a large portion of our hold over him, we will run the risk of loosing him the same way we lost Campo. I can tell you the club will not pay the same as his last contract based on form to date.

His value as such, is dependent on what teams would need his services. To West Coast his value would be very little, but to Essendon or Collingwood he would be worth alot more. His curreny to me is probably different to yours, I think in this draft on current form and his future contribution to our team he is probably worth a early 2nd/late 1st round draft selection.

Tough decisions need to be made for the future of our team, and I honestly can't see Nick Stevens as a sure longterm fixture. Stevens I think would relish the change and it would rejuvinate his career.

 

[bibi01]

How about a trade for AKA and Brisbanes 2nd round pick?

Stephens prob has about 4-6 years left and AKA about 2-3 years.

Aka's demeanour on field is superb and he's professional about keeping his body in good shape and he trains really well.

Silence the tongue and it would be great to have him there.

3 premierships worth of experience, invaluable!

stevens left port to come home to melbourne, i seriously doubt that he will want to leave melbourne a second time to go to brisbane.

 

[jj1978]

stevens left port to come home to melbourne, i seriously doubt that he will want to leave melbourne a second time to go to brisbane.

If he's traded I didn't think he really has much choice, does he?

I think by his attitude this year he'd allow himself to be traded to any team just to get the heck out of CFC.

Plus we could get AKA in a round about way... we give Stevens to Say Collingwood for their second round pick plus a player, we give Brisbane that second round pick and that player for Stevens.

Lots of things that can be done.

He'd even go back to Port! I bet he hates himself so much for leaving Port and missing that premiership, perhaps the sour grapes over that is what's eating at him.

 

[AlecDuncan]

Last night on SEN, Sheldon came out and agreed with most of our opinions considering the future of Nick Stevens. In his opinion the club should trade him at the end of the season.

He seems to be the new whipping boy for some supporters after they got tired of ragging on Houlihan. Some of the members around me on Sunday were pretty harsh, and they've got rocks in their heads if they think we can afford the luxury of him playing in the Ants.

No we should not trade Nick. He is a quality, mature-age on-baller, and we don't have enough of them. Yes, it doesn't look like he's having the greatest of times this year - who could blame him? Yes, he made some clangers against the Doggies - he was in fine company. No, he's not in any danger of winning the B&F this year, but he has been up there every year since arriving.

This year he's had to do it without Kouta or Campo to help, and it shows. Get some quality and numbers around him and watch his football then.

 

[cong8]

Would be happy to trade him - was clear from the time we got him that he wasnt the player we required. At his best he is classy however the lack of accountability for his opponents kills us more often than not ('taggers' often accumulate the same number or more possessions than stevens and can be more damaging). For someone with good skills and a supposed on field leader, he makes way too many errors. He also doesnt offer that much line breaking run - how often do you see him really sprint down field with a couple of bounces before delivering long? Simpson and even walker offer us a lot more there (just a shame walkers disposal isnt quite there yet).

In terms of trades I'd be happy with a straight swap with say collingwood/saints first round pick (10-13 range atm) - teams that may be 1-2 midfielders short of a flag.

The other option would be to use him as trade bait for an uncontracted player that we get to threaten for PSD. An option could be...

Stevens for goaddard proceeding via the following...
1. Goddard is out of contract - we offer over the top on a heavily front loaded for goddard and he say he wants to be traded (average 350-400k @ say 500k, 400k, 300k).
2. We refuse to trade early picks and thus offer stevens and offer to pay part salary (say 100-150k).
3. Saint accept the deal as it saves them cap room next year (to re-sign other players). We end up paying effectively 600-650k next yr for effectively goddard (able to do so through kouta's saved salary)

Obviously I dont expect that one to get through but the general trade scenario is the same - you identify a very good uncontracted young player in a team that is close with tight on cap space and u offer a stevens trade with part salary thrown in to ease their cap pressure.

 

[HBF]

Totally agree Surrey.........unless the trade is slightly in our favour (ie between say pick 7-12), then forget about it.

IMO, Collingwood might give up their first pick to get Stevens at Collingwood. Given their form at the moment, that would just about be a top 10 pick.

 

[BlueFeaver]

He seems to be the new whipping boy for some supporters after they got tired of ragging on Houlihan. Some of the members around me on Sunday were pretty harsh, and they've got rocks in their heads if they think we can afford the luxury of him playing in the Ants.

No we should not trade Nick. He is a quality, mature-age on-baller, and we don't have enough of them. Yes, it doesn't look like he's having the greatest of times this year - who could blame him? Yes, he made some clangers against the Doggies - he was in fine company. No, he's not in any danger of winning the B&F this year, but he has been up there every year since arriving.

This year he's had to do it without Kouta or Campo to help, and it shows. Get some quality and numbers around him and watch his football then.

I don't want it to seem like he's my "whipping boy" as I think the guy can play, but my opinion is skills aside I don't think he is the right player for us at this point in our developement. I'm not saying trade him at the drop of a hat, but the club should atleast weigh-up the fors and againsts.

 

[pumped]

I don't want it to seem like he's my "whipping boy" as I think the guy can play, but my opinion is skills aside I don't think he is the right player for us at this point in our developement. I'm not saying trade him at the drop of a hat, but the club should atleast weigh-up the fors and againsts.

Have to agree with Bluefeaver's sentiments. I too am not saying Nick cannot play just questioning if he will ever play to his potential. Don't think he did it consistently at Port and it is seeming unlikely that he will do it at Carlton.

Very similar attitude to Campo. Plays as a victim. If he was prepared to be a true leader ie; Give everything even when others are not. Then he would be worth keeping.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

If he's traded I didn't think he really has much choice, does he?

He certainly does. He is contracted, we either make a trade that is acceptable to us, the other club and Stevens or he stays with us. When he is out of contract, we either make a trade that is acceptable to all 3 parties again (although we would accept less by then) or he walks into the preseason draft and takes his chances. If it is a Victorian team with the first pick as seems likely, he gets snapped up at pick one and we sit around wondering what happened. At least we wouldn't have lost out on the deal as we got him for nothing. Maybe we would be peeved about paying him 400k per season and not getting the required output for our money.

 

[Hu$$ey]

Look it all sounds well and fantastic that we trade him get another top-10 pick and draft a 'gem' with it BUT I have serious serious reservations about the leadership at our club. Yes, we haven't seen Stevens do too much of that but you need some experience at your club, you cannot have a TAC cup team running around in the AFL, youth policy is all good and well but you have to draw the line, you need leaders, players who have been there and done that on the field.

We can throw the idea of trading him and all but then who do the kids look up to at training? During the games? Who can we bank upon at times? We need leaders, not let go of any that we might have. Nick needs a kick up the back side like Fevola but to trade him will leave us with just kids who probably won't know or learn how to win for another 2-3 years. You can't just concentrate solely on the future, gotta take the experience with youth, it sounds good in theory having so many kids but need experienced players particularly after the impending retirements of Kouta, Lappin and French in the next couple of years.

 

[BlueFeaver]

HU$$EY your points are all valid and are all questions that would need to answered, but is it possible with Stevens attitude that he is being counter productive is leadership developement. Hypothetically, if he was traded, would a player like Walker be released to fill the gap both onfield and laedership wise. Would the removal of Nick, let Russell feel more at ease on the field and more part of the team.
Or do we target a player from another club that is a committed hard player, he may not have the skill but he will lead in a different manner.
Just possibilities to consider.
The danger is I think Nick deep down thinks the team needs him and can't go forward without him.
I have noticed this year that our midfield functions much better when he is rested out of the action.

 

[BlueWorld]

Lose Stevens and someone else will get tagged- Simpson, Murphy etc. Then they'll become the "whipping boy" for not performing to their potential from having to be tagged every week.