Sheldon V Stevens

[sdoherty]

We can throw the idea of trading him and all but then who do the kids look up to at training? During the games? Who can we bank upon at times? We need leaders, not let go of any that we might have. Nick needs a kick up the back side like Fevola but to trade him will leave us with just kids who probably won't know or learn how to win for another 2-3 years. You can't just concentrate solely on the future, gotta take the experience with youth, it sounds good in theory having so many kids but need experienced players particularly after the impending retirements of Kouta, Lappin and French in the next couple of years.

Agree we need leaders. 'Is Stevens the leader we need? If we get a pick around 10 - 12 and pick up another experienced player in the midfield during the pre-season draft we could be in business. This is a reality.

Sydney - Desperate for a classy midfielder would give up there first pick.
Collingwood - Same.

We then head hunt for a 28+ midfielder and offer $$ on a two year contract. Akermanis, C.Fletcher to name a few.

The reality is Stevens won't be around in 5 years when we are challenging for a flag. It is Carlton's last opportuntiy to trade for the future.

 

[BlueFeaver]

Lose Stevens and someone else will get tagged- Simpson, Murphy etc. Then they'll become the "whipping boy" for not performing to their potential from having to be tagged every week.

My argument is not about Nick Stevens being my whipping boy, it's his effect on the group as a whole and the example he sets for them aswell. It is his choice whether or not he plays accountable football, it is his choice whether or not he sheppards, it is also his choice as to whether he backs back into a pack. These are all parts of footy and he chooses not to do them, these are also parts of the game that tagging doesn't effect. He can get the ball and he can use it better than most, but football is about running for your team and doing the hard yards. These sort of examples must be set onfield, not picking up cheap possessions.

 

[blues4flag]

No we should not trade Nick. He is a quality, mature-age on-baller, and we don't have enough of them. Yes, it doesn't look like he's having the greatest of times this year - who could blame him? Yes, he made some clangers against the Doggies - he was in fine company. No, he's not in any danger of winning the B&F this year, but he has been up there every year since arriving.

This year he's had to do it without Kouta or Campo to help, and it shows. Get some quality and numbers around him and watch his football then.

Agree. He's our stand out midfielder, and as such he is the first tagged every week. Not much others in our team to tag - yet as they're still developing. Once our players improve and take the pressure of Nick, and we start winning some games, I'm sure that he'll improve his game as well as leadership.

 

[Hu$$ey]

BF let's first let Walker and Russell establish themselves regularly in the first team before we start talking about leadership roles for them. The leadership was in such a perilous state at Carlton in the past couple of years that we've had to have Prenderghast and Teague in the group FFS!! You can't just throw youngsters into the leadership group, you need to have experienced players along with youngsters and for that fact alone I would be reluctant to trade him.

 

[pumped]

BF let's first let Walker and Russell establish themselves regularly in the first team before we start talking about leadership roles for them. The leadership was in such a perilous state at Carlton in the past couple of years that we've had to have Prenderghast and Teague in the group FFS!! You can't just throw youngsters into the leadership group, you need to have experienced players along with youngsters and for that fact alone I would be reluctant to trade him.

Can understand your point Hussey but Campo was also experienced. Should we have kept him because of this. My belief is that as experienced as Campo was he was actually a negative from a leadership standing.

I would prefer to retain Kouta on low money next year for experience and to let Nick go if we get the appropriate deal.

With regards to midfield we have so many options - Scotland, Houlihan, Murphy, Betts, Carazzo, Walker, Blackwell and perhaps Bentick.

 

[Hu$$ey]

Yeah I know Campo was a negative influence but that was more due to his laziness on the training track, I am not sure if Nick is as lazy or as much of a cancer at our club as I haven't seen him at training but yeah he has looked lazy during the games.

At this same time last year we were talking about trading Fevola, Whitnall and Scotland; this year they are our 3 best players. Scotland got dropped to Seconds and had the kick he needed so he came back focussed and realised he had to grasp his opportunity and has been magnificent this year. Other notable players who have come back rejuvinated after being dropped are Wirrpanda from the Eagles and Joel Bowden from Richmond who have also been sensational since their short stints in the reserves - could this possibly work for Nick also?

I'd hate to lose him and then see him become a premier midfielder in the competition again at Collingwood. The kick up the backside might just do it instead of actually losing an experienced and classy player like him.

 

[Lapp_46]

My argument is not about Nick Stevens being my whipping boy, it's his effect on the group as a whole and the example he sets for them aswell. It is his choice whether or not he plays accountable football, it is his choice whether or not he sheppards, it is also his choice as to whether he backs back into a pack. These are all parts of footy and he chooses not to do them, these are also parts of the game that tagging doesn't effect. He can get the ball and he can use it better than most, but football is about running for your team and doing the hard yards. These sort of examples must be set onfield, not picking up cheap possessions.

I'm Sorry, but i simply cant agree with you. You have no idea what type of a leader he is. You are not on the ground with the players, you do not train with him. For all you know he is sacrificing his own possessions to help the young kids. He is carltons no1 for clearances. The is not soft possessions.

The fact is he is our no1 midfielder, and therefore gets tagged every week. To think you would be happy trading a ready made, nicely polished midfielder for anything outside a first round draft pick and your a fool. The majority of players drafted (even first round picks) DO NOT GO ON AND PLAY 100 GAMES. Its just not worth the risk.

 

[Effes]

BlueWorld is on the money

Lets trade Stevens so Murphy and Simpsons young bodies get smashed week in week out.

Stevens provides more to this team than Campo ever did in his final 4 years.

 

[Blah Blah Blue]

1.
Marc Murphey has credited Nick with helping him settle into senior football. A mentor in fact.
2.
Nick Stevens IS our No. 1 on baller and gets a serious tag EACH week.
3.
NS is class and, yes, probably frustated with CFC's current performance however he is out there, trying and encouraging.
4.
Denis does not critisise him [and don't the Denis knockers start either], he understands what the opposition throw at him and what he contributes to CFC off the ground.
5.
My opinion - keep him.
6.
IF a trade was to be considered would have to be HEAVILY weighted in our favour.
7.
and who suggested a straight swap for ''Lames'' Kelly - for God's sake wake up!
8.
With a young group of midfielder's coming thru we need someone of Nick Stevens class to be there and assist their developement.

 

[oaksy]

Should we trade Nick? Not this year.
What would you trade Nick for? A low first round pick and a 2nd round pick.
What team would be best for Nick? A good team with a mix of aging and young midfielders - adelaide, st kilda, collingwood.
Do you think deep down Nick wants to be traded? Maybe, certainly looks like it on the field.
Is Nick right for our club at this time? At this time yes, we are not in a position to trade a proven and experienced midfielder. With kouta surely retiring at seasons end, we can not leave everything up to scotland and the youngsters.
Is Nick worth his hefty salary? Name says yes, current performance and attitude says no.
Is he a good leader? No not really.
Will Nicks absence slow down our climb up the ladder? Yes definately
As a Carlton supporter are you prepared for the short term loss for long term gain? We have already been rebuilding for a couple years, so another short term loss is effectively long-term
What are the benifits of him staying? Experience and depth.

 

[Hu$$ey]

6. With our midfield base so young, how much do you go to more senior players like Nick Stevens and Heath Scotland for advice?
Personally, I go to Nick a fair bit. He has lots of experience, and I guess with Kouta out he and French are the leaders of the midfield group. But for me, I certainly do seek Nick out.

http://carltonfc.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=281791

 

[Silvagnis]

Trade him to the Cats or a club that will have a low second round pick and we'll pay a huge chunk of his wage so they can fit him in their salary cap. We should consider trading Lance or Fisher as well if a club like the Dogs sees them as worth more than their late first round or second round pick. We need more picks in this draft to get an edge on the opposition as someone else said!

It ****s me that Essendon are going to get another early pick this year just like we can!

 

[Silvagnis]

We then head hunt for a 28+ midfielder and offer $$ on a two year contract. Akermanis, C.Fletcher to name a few.

Akers under contract so we're not going to trade for a 29 year old to influence the kids in the Carlton creche , ditto for Fletcher because we have Murphy, Bentick and Blackwell for that role.

Next someone will suggest Michael Gardiner because he was a ruckman and a number one draft pick.

 

[BlueFeaver]

I'm Sorry, but i simply cant agree with you. You have no idea what type of a leader he is. You are not on the ground with the players, you do not train with him. For all you know he is sacrificing his own possessions to help the young kids. He is carltons no1 for clearances. The is not soft possessions.

The fact is he is our no1 midfielder, and therefore gets tagged every week. To think you would be happy trading a ready made, nicely polished midfielder for anything outside a first round draft pick and your a fool. The majority of players drafted (even first round picks) DO NOT GO ON AND PLAY 100 GAMES. Its just not worth the risk.

First things first, he does not sacrifice his possessions for the young team members, as he still gets alot of the ball. This, if you read through my others posts is not the issue. I also acknowledge that he is a leader at the club and is probably of good benefit in his own regard. And again I am not doubting his skill and ability.

His attitude onfield can be appualing to young team mates finger pointing them for his short commings.
I ask you Lapp, have you ever played footy or a team sport? I don't want to sound condesending, but in a team you must do it all. In footy it's not just about getting the ball it's about helping out a team mate, it's about protecting a team mate, it's about creating a contest even when you know your going to get hurt, it's about pulling your weight both ways.
These are departments of our developement that we aren't going forward as fast as we would like. Nick is tagged every game, and to his credit still manages to get a lions share of the ball, but the 1% that changes games and wins you games he does not do.
As for trading terms and your comment about most 1st round selections don't play 100 games. I say, "Fortune Favours the Brave", we could stick with the status quo and could probably be in the eight in 2 years or we could build a dynasty and win a couple of flags. Which may take a little longer.

 

[BlueFeaver]

BF let's first let Walker and Russell establish themselves regularly in the first team before we start talking about leadership roles for them. The leadership was in such a perilous state at Carlton in the past couple of years that we've had to have Prenderghast and Teague in the group FFS!! You can't just throw youngsters into the leadership group, you need to have experienced players along with youngsters and for that fact alone I would be reluctant to trade him.

Hu$$ey, it was a hypothetical example and I'm sure this time last year you wouldn't have thought Fevola and Simpson to be in the leadership group. I know I didn't!

 

[as0l0]

http://carltonfc.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=281791

can't argue with that. I hope all our blokes feel that way. if they do, then I retract my statements.

 

[pumped]

Yeah I know Campo was a negative influence but that was more due to his laziness on the training track, I am not sure if Nick is as lazy or as much of a cancer at our club as I haven't seen him at training but yeah he has looked lazy during the games.

At this same time last year we were talking about trading Fevola, Whitnall and Scotland; this year they are our 3 best players. Scotland got dropped to Seconds and had the kick he needed so he came back focussed and realised he had to grasp his opportunity and has been magnificent this year. Other notable players who have come back rejuvinated after being dropped are Wirrpanda from the Eagles and Joel Bowden from Richmond who have also been sensational since their short stints in the reserves - could this possibly work for Nick also?

I'd hate to lose him and then see him become a premier midfielder in the competition again at Collingwood. The kick up the backside might just do it instead of actually losing an experienced and classy player like him.

Hi again Hussey,

You make plenty of really good points. Whilst I didn't feel like trading Fev or Lance was a good move I had lost faith in Heath. Felt that he had heaps of ability but a very inconsistent attitude. He has really stepped up this year and I still think he has another 10-20% improvement in him.

With reagrds to Campo I felt most of his negative influence was on field as I didn't ever go to training. I just hated seeing his lack of leadership on field. He was a real wingeing victim and was constantly worried more about taggers than the ball. I feel Nick is in a similar state of mind. He could however become a very valueable player if he got his head focassed on the game rather than taggers and the general state of Carlton's and his own plight.

With regards to him becoming a star at Colling wood I am still doubtful though. He may play some good forward footy with them but a change of club is not what it will take to get Nick's head real. It may take some pressure off him but only a good deep look into himself is going to get him to be a totally rounded champion footballer imo.

Perhaps this is exactly what you are pointing to with regards to the wakeups that Bowden and co got. Hopefully someone at the club can reach Nick in a way that no one else at Carlton or Port has been able to in the past. It would be great if Fev, Lance, Scotland, Nick and perhaps Jarred and Lappin were all firing with full passion togeather next year.

 

[BlueFeaver]

Hi again Hussey,

You make plenty of really good points. Whilst I didn't feel like trading Fev or Lance was a good move I had lost faith in Heath. Felt that he had heaps of ability but a very inconsistent attitude. He has really stepped up this year and I still think he has another 10-20% improvement in him.

With reagrds to Campo I felt most of his negative influence was on field as I didn't ever go to training. I just hated seeing his lack of leadership on field. He was a real wingeing victim and was constantly worried more about taggers than the ball. I feel Nick is in a similar state of mind. He could however become a very valueable player if he got his head focassed on the game rather than taggers and the general state of Carlton's and his own plight.

With regards to him becoming a star at Colling wood I am still doubtful though. He may play some good forward footy with them but a change of club is not what it will take to get Nick's head real. It may take some pressure off him but only a good deep look into himself is going to get him to be a totally rounded champion footballer imo.

Perhaps this is exactly what you are pointing to with regards to the wakeups that Bowden and co got. Hopefully someone at the club can reach Nick in a way that no one else at Carlton or Port has been able to in the past. It would be great if Fev, Lance, Scotland, Nick and perhaps Jarred and Lappin were all firing with full passion togeather next year.

Speaking of frustration of taggers I watched a couple of old games (Glory Days), I kept a particular eye on Bradley who I think was probably tagged from birth. Rather than try and intimidate the tagger he would play games with them. The likes of dragging the tagger forward or dragging them back, he would even go and tag another player. The guy was a genius but he focus was always on the end result, a win for the team. It didn't matter if he got 1 touch or 30 touches. These are things that Nick could do if is willing.

 

[pumped]

Speaking of frustration of taggers I watched a couple of old games (Glory Days), I kept a particular eye on Bradley who I think was probably tagged from birth. Rather than try and intimidate the tagger he would play games with them. The likes of dragging the tagger forward or dragging them back, he would even go and tag another player. The guy was a genius but he focus was always on the end result, a win for the team. It didn't matter if he got 1 touch or 30 touches. These are things that Nick could do if is willing.

Maybe we are in a mutual admiration society at the moment but I agtree once again. Bradley, Ratten, Brown, Voss, Buckley etc etc all have had to deal with taggers and have all in their different ways conquered them.

 

[behen_666]

I am in a troubled state of mind with this one!

Week in-week out i go watch the blues to support them, not to ridicule them and pick on every player, like i know many frustrated fans do.

But every week i am at the game and i find myself telling Nick Stevens to get in and under, he just does not do it, he is a feeder, so this is the conclusion i came to.

I believe he should play a different role for the rest of this year and the whole of next year, maybe a Matthew Lappin kind of role, out of the backline, blood our young boys for next year even it means another poor year, by this time the young boys will have the nous and the courage to go in and under.

The in 2008, bring Nick Stevens back as a premium midfielder where he can feed off other guys, that's how he fitted in at PORT, and i've come to the assumption he ain't going to do it himself. Camporeale was the same, other players made hime look good and valuable, and when the likes of Ratten, Bradley and Diesl left, Campo was exposed for the player he really was, and that was a feeder.

So, in conclusion, i'm prepared to be patient and wait until these guys like Simpson, Bentick, Murphy and Blackwell become more experienced, so i just convinced myself to KEEP HIM!!

 

[blangerang]

Lose Stevens and someone else will get tagged- Simpson, Murphy etc. Then they'll become the "whipping boy" for not performing to their potential from having to be tagged every week.

Murphy did get tagged a few times this season i think by Stenglein and Rawlings and still managed to have a big impact