Should be Embarrassed

[master_of_puppets]

Maybe it's just me, but i think talk of winning a spoon for picks 1 and 2 is embarrassing.

Winning a wooden spoon should not be entertained in a competitive environment. i'd rather be able to say i support a team that has only won 1 spoon, and 16 finals as opposed to 2 spoons and 17 finals.

Like i said maybe it's just me, i don't like losing and have always been brought up to give 100%. As for those posters who welcome the spoon, you need your head read. Where is your pride?? I blame the parents................ hee hee

 

[Free Willy]

On the other hand the footballing world look at the Kanga's under Pagan & recently the Bombers under Sheedy & complain about too many years being "sort of competitive" and as a result finishing mid table & missing out on the cream of the crop.

Look at Melbourne, who with the occaisional bottoming out have enabled to update their list with some pretty good quality players as opposed to mid range foot soldiers.

My heart agrees with you..........

My head says this is the best possible result for Carlton - but yeah, it sucks !

 

[master_of_puppets]

On the other hand the footballing world look at the Kanga's under Pagan & recently the Bombers under Sheedy & complain about too many years being "sort of competitive" and as a result finishing mid table & missing out on the cream of the crop.

Look at Melbourne, who with the occaisional bottoming out have enabled to update their list with some pretty good quality players as opposed to mid range foot soldiers.

My heart agrees with you..........

My head say this is the best possible result for Carlton - but yeah, it sucks !

Like i said, if a team intentionally bottoms out to get higher picks, i'd rather support a team that tries every week.
Playing finals is not sufficient compensation for being given the spoon.

You read everywhere "whose going to win the spoon"................ you don't win spoons, they are thrown at you, no team should aspire to being given a spoon. It is the worst indignation a club could suffer.

For a team such as the saints, well it's in their culture, that's why they will never be a powerhouse, even with all those PP. Spoons should be dreaded, not welcomed!!!

 

[ECHUCABOY]

yeah it sucks, but until the league comes to its senses and changes the drafting rules its all we can hope for!

 

[bibi01]

for those who do believe we are bottoming out?

time to face facts:
our list has potential but we have guys who are playing nowhere near their potential.
our list on performances, is very ordinary.
we have players who have not come on as we would have liked.

our second tier players are just not cutting the mustard (davies, sporn, prendergast etc)
our kids are still learning the caper (russell, walker, betts etc)
our guns can't do win games on their own (kouta, stevens, fevola etc)

we haven't had many injuries but we have had cocnsistent injuries to key players playing in the spine (french, thornton)

the whole team is down on confidence,
after the WC we needed to get over the line in a few of the close games games (north, port, coll- we were in positions to win) to gain some momentum. well we didn't. we got stopped in our tracks.

all you can ask for is 22 blokes giving 100% each week, if they do this and we finish last, well you cop it.

 

[master_of_puppets]

yeah it sucks, but until the league comes to its senses and changes the drafting rules its all we can hope for!

I don't get your train of thought. "until the league comes to it's senses?? what is this crap??. You are advocating throwing games. If we have players or even coaching staff that have this sort of attitude, we'll become the next st kilda. This is something i would not support.

 

[ECHUCABOY]

I don't get your train of thought. "until the league comes to it's senses?? what is this crap??. You are advocating throwing games. If we have players or even coaching staff that have this sort of attitude, we'll become the next st kilda. This is something i would not support.

I definetly dont support it mate, but if it means finishing last and gettin 1 an 2 or finishing 11th and gettin whateva. I think clubs will take the easy option.

I hate it mate id love to see the blues there abouts havin a rip, just the way footy in unfortunatley going. Lets hope it doesnt completely go that way. and the blues can have a rip and battle through.

This talent and skill stuff is crap! Every 18 out there has 2 arms and 2 legs its mental, pull ya fingers out blues

 

[celtic_pride]

for those who do believe we are bottoming out?

time to face facts:
our list has potential but we have guys who are playing nowhere near their potential.
our list on performances, is very ordinary.
we have players who have not come on as we would have liked.

our second tier players are just not cutting the mustard (davies, sporn, prendergast etc)
our kids are still learning the caper (russell, walker, betts etc)
our guns can't do win games on their own (kouta, stevens, fevola etc)

we haven't had many injuries but we have had cocnsistent injuries to key players playing in the spine (french, thornton)

the whole team is down on confidence,
after the WC we needed to get over the line in a few of the close games games (north, port, coll- we were in positions to win) to gain some momentum. well we didn't. we got stopped in our tracks.

all you can ask for is 22 blokes giving 100% each week, if they do this and we finish last, well you cop it.

Very good post and I couldn't agree more ...

 

[master_of_puppets]

I definetly dont support it mate, but if it means finishing last and gettin 1 an 2 or finishing 11th and gettin whateva. I think clubs will take the easy option.

Getting 1 and 2 does not equate to a flag, but that spoon will always be there. i'd rather not have that spoon.

 

[stokesy]

Who cares about the picks, just don't worry about them I say.

We should go out there and aim to win at least 5 of the next games or something, set a target, success is what makes a football club, not failure.

If we get the picks and we tried 100%, so be it.

We have to remember, that these picks may not work. There is a higher percent of the player becoming injured, wanting to leave. In my eyes it is to risky to play for the picks, as they may not work out.

I would prefer to see us rebuild without taking the easy option.

The club had to see if it is worth it, it's risky playing for picks.

I would be so annoyed if in 6 - 7 years time, those priority picks never came through and we had 2 spoons to our name.

C'MON CARLTON, STUFF THE SPOON AND PICKS. We are a proud club and we can boast about 16 premierships and 1 spoon, imagine if we can say 20 premiership and 1 spoon in 15-20 years time or something.

Imagine when our kids, grandkids other relatives in 50 years time see the CFC with 1 spoon still to our name.

It's all history, picks aren't worth that.

 

[blues4flag]

I definetely wouldn't want to win the spoon if we had a good list but we don't. We lack depth and at the moment don't have what it takes to make it in the 8. If we are going to finish in the bottom four why not finish last and get the picks, to shorten the time we will be down the bottom, instead of just lengthen our period of mediocrity.

 

[WA1TE]

At least talking about tanking gives us an excuse for being so crap. Getting picks is all we have to talk about at the moment.

 

[oaksy]

Who cares about the picks, just don't worry about them I say.

We should go out there and aim to win at least 5 of the next games or something, set a target, success is what makes a football club, not failure.

If we get the picks and we tried 100%, so be it.

We have to remember, that these picks may not work. There is a higher percent of the player becoming injured, wanting to leave. In my eyes it is to risky to play for the picks, as they may not work out.

I would prefer to see us rebuild without taking the easy option.

The club had to see if it is worth it, it's risky playing for picks.

I would be so annoyed if in 6 - 7 years time, those priority picks never came through and we had 2 spoons to our name.

C'MON CARLTON, STUFF THE SPOON AND PICKS. We are a proud club and we can boast about 16 premierships and 1 spoon, imagine if we can say 20 premiership and 1 spoon in 15-20 years time or something.

Imagine when our kids, grandkids other relatives in 50 years time see the CFC with 1 spoon still to our name.

It's all history, picks aren't worth that.

if we don't bottom out and get good picks, theres no way we will get 4 more cups in 15-20 years.

 

[stokesy]

if we don't bottom out and get good picks, theres no way we will get 4 more cups in 15-20 years.

Of course we bloody could.

How can you say that the picks will win us premierships?

I don't want us to take the easy option out, as I can see it biting us on the bum.

We are low on confidence.... I bet, if we had of won against Adelaide, Sydney, Collingwood and a few other teams - Melbourne, where the games were winneable, it would be a different story. We would be in the race for finals, not last and we wouldn't even be thinking about picks.

 

[TheBlueblood]

We wont lift until our list learns how to tackle for 4 qtrs.. Imo our list has more talent than say collingwood but they tackle for 4 qtrs unlike our team which considers 20-30 tackles good enough..

Whens the last time we saw a player get some decent sheperds????

 

[mojo31]

Of course we bloody could.

How can you say that the picks will win us premierships?

I don't want us to take the easy option out, as I can see it biting us on the bum.

We are low on confidence.... I bet, if we had of won against Adelaide, Sydney, Collingwood and a few other teams - Melbourne, where the games were winneable, it would be a different story. We would be in the race for finals, not last and we wouldn't even be thinking about picks.

Bottoming out to means not tanking or deliberately losing games at all. I think it means drafting teenagers over recruiting experienced players from other clubs. Slowly nurturing youth instead of going the quick fix and getting a few surplus players from strronger clubs.
Pagan has not really had a choice at Carlton with the penalties. He did pick up Chambers and Longmuir with late picks but we still drafted 5 teenagers,
Blackwell, Russell, Hartlett, Raso and Betts and went for a 23 year old ruckman in Chris Bryan.
I would like us to not trade any picks away this year unless something very good comes along. Use a player and a pick to get a gun or something like that.
Josh Wooden, Rowan Jones, Simon Godfrey, Luke Williams, Ryan and Nathan Lonie, Chris Ladhams and so on are the players we could pick up from other clubs. This is what we have to avoid. Players aged 24 or over who are not going to take the club forward. If we get them they deprive a teenager of a chance to on our list who we can train up. I prefer to win a few less games next year and keep all our draft picks then go and get experienced players who will never make us a force.
Thats what I mean by bottoming out. Youth over the band aid and quick fix. Time to be patient.
I want more Andrew Walker type players at the club and no more Glen Bowyer types.

 

[sherb]

I will be happy as long as -
1. The best side is put on the field every week and
2. The side gives 100% each and every game
(Point 1 of course can be a very subjective thing).

If the side busts its boiler every week and finishes last on merit (or whatever the opposite of merit is ), hey - so be it.

If we finish last because of lack of effort or of deliberate poor selection policies, I would be very disappointed with both the club and the playing group.

For what its worth, I know this group of players is widely regarded as being very average, but I still believe they are performing well below their best. Despite all their supposed shortcomings, they are a better side than their performances would suggest. As to what the problem is - who knows?

 

[garth p]

I don't get your train of thought. "until the league comes to it's senses?? what is this crap??. You are advocating throwing games. If we have players or even coaching staff that have this sort of attitude, we'll become the next st kilda. This is something i would not support.

The Saints never tanked games for priority picks. If they did Wells would now be playing for the Saints, not the Roos.

 

[bibi01]

We wont lift until our list learns how to tackle for 4 qtrs.. Imo our list has more talent than say collingwood but they tackle for 4 qtrs unlike our team which considers 20-30 tackles good enough..

Whens the last time we saw a player get some decent sheperds????

your on the money there.

we don't play 4 quarters
our intensity drops off too quickly
our attack on the footy is not tough enough
we don't make enough tackles stick
early in the season we kicked too many points
we lack a couple of tough nuts in the team- like a hickmott, hamill, scott bros

 

[stokesy]

we lack a couple of tough nuts in the team- like a hickmott, hamill, scott bros

I'm glad Hamill isn't playing today.

Who would be our tough nut in our side anyway? We don't really have one, but the only person I can think of is Waite being anywhere close to a tough nut.

Kouta isn't, doesn't crunch players. Our whole midfield isn't.

Waite is the only one, he goes at it 100% and chases, then usually gives them one when they dispose of the ball.